[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Rex Dieter]

Paul Stauffer wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 08:49:53AM -0800, Ama M wrote:
>>   - Who takes the final decision on the name and When??

> The Fedora Board will need to make the decision eventually.

afaic, the decision to use "Fedora" has pretty much been settled, though
it's not yet been etched in stone.

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[nihed mbarek]

++1
i love the idea "fedora"

2007/1/11, Jeremy Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


++1

On 1/11/07, hymno3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Fedora!
> /me agrees too, Fedora Linux doesn't sound good.
> "Fedora" is just fine, as a *name*. Apart from using that name,
> marketing bla can add all kinds of subtitles. ;) Such as "Fedora: a
> (GNU/)Linux operating system", "Fedora, your open source computing
> environment", whatever.
>
> Some arguments:
>
> a) The "linux" in Fedora is not that different from the "Linux" in other
> distros; the difference Fedora makes is in other things.
>
> b) People using Fedora will "see" Fedora: its logos, its choice of
> software, its installer, its package manager, its artwork. They will not
> see Linux.
>
> c) Other successful Linux OSes are often used, and their official names
> are, without the word "Linux" attached to it, although people know it's
> "Linux inside". Take Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoo. Except for "Suse Linux"
> which is more often used together (but Opensuse is not "Opensuse Linux"
> either).
>
> d) By avoiding either "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux",
> quasi-religious Stallman vs. Torvalds type wars will be avoided, which
> is a good thing. Waste of time.
>
> e) "Fedora Linux" would imply that in Fedora it is not possible to
> permit the theoretical use of another type of kernel. Solaris, BSD, it's
> all free software. Who knows what the future will bring? Linux will be
> around for a long time, but it's a strange world.
>
> f) "Fedora" already *is* the name most people give to Fedora. Language
> works like that, you can't superimpose names on names that are already
> used widely. Three syllables is a perfect amount of syllables. :)
>
> g) "Linux" is a trademark that is not owned by Fedora. This will not
> create a problem likely, since Linus Torvalds doesn't put much energy in
> protecting his trademark, but you never can tell. It's better to just be
> completely *independent*.
>
> h) Especially in Japan and Korea, "Fedora Linux" is a bit nasty to
> pronounce (Pedorarinuksu - two r's, unpoetic ;) ). And that's a huge
> market for computers and sotware.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
> regards,
> Herman
>
>
> Op do, 11-01-2007 te 12:41 +0530, schreef susmit shannigrahi:
> > Does not "Fedora Linux" sound a bit odd?
> > No offence please :)
> > But I think "Fedora" is  a better choice
> > than "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux".
> >
> > --
> > ssh
> > 0x86DD170A
> > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi
> >
>
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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Jeremy Hogan]

++1

On 1/11/07, hymno3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Fedora!
/me agrees too, Fedora Linux doesn't sound good.
"Fedora" is just fine, as a *name*. Apart from using that name,
marketing bla can add all kinds of subtitles. ;) Such as "Fedora: a
(GNU/)Linux operating system", "Fedora, your open source computing
environment", whatever.

Some arguments:

a) The "linux" in Fedora is not that different from the "Linux" in other
distros; the difference Fedora makes is in other things.

b) People using Fedora will "see" Fedora: its logos, its choice of
software, its installer, its package manager, its artwork. They will not
see Linux.

c) Other successful Linux OSes are often used, and their official names
are, without the word "Linux" attached to it, although people know it's
"Linux inside". Take Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoo. Except for "Suse Linux"
which is more often used together (but Opensuse is not "Opensuse Linux"
either).

d) By avoiding either "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux",
quasi-religious Stallman vs. Torvalds type wars will be avoided, which
is a good thing. Waste of time.

e) "Fedora Linux" would imply that in Fedora it is not possible to
permit the theoretical use of another type of kernel. Solaris, BSD, it's
all free software. Who knows what the future will bring? Linux will be
around for a long time, but it's a strange world.

f) "Fedora" already *is* the name most people give to Fedora. Language
works like that, you can't superimpose names on names that are already
used widely. Three syllables is a perfect amount of syllables. :)

g) "Linux" is a trademark that is not owned by Fedora. This will not
create a problem likely, since Linus Torvalds doesn't put much energy in
protecting his trademark, but you never can tell. It's better to just be
completely *independent*.

h) Especially in Japan and Korea, "Fedora Linux" is a bit nasty to
pronounce (Pedorarinuksu - two r's, unpoetic ;) ). And that's a huge
market for computers and sotware.

For what it's worth.

regards,
Herman


Op do, 11-01-2007 te 12:41 +0530, schreef susmit shannigrahi:
> Does not "Fedora Linux" sound a bit odd?
> No offence please :)
> But I think "Fedora" is  a better choice
> than "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux".
>
> --
> ssh
> 0x86DD170A
> http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi
>

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Jeremy Hogan]

On 1/11/07, Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


* Jeremy Hogan (2007-01-10 20:27 -0500) said:
  
> GNU/Linux isn't as Googlicious as Fedora Linux would be. Plus given
> the number of non-gpl and non-gnu components

I'd say that's a small number that is not compliant with GPL.

That's exactly why we should name the system GNU.



"Compliant with" is not the same as "exclusively licensed as". GNU/Linux
pays homage to egos, but does nothing to foster adoption of Fedora. There
are some very important apps that have nothing to do with the GPL, other
than being compliant. We wouldn't call it GNU/MPL/Apache/Linux, so we
shouldn't call it GNU/Linux just to pacify a group of people that are smart
enough to know that it's a license. I do understand that the FSF doesn't
think it's fair to name the whole OS after the kernel, but dropping "Linux"
from the title makes as much sense as adding GNU if you're going to head
down that road. The problem we have to live with, is that the majority of
the world calls the entire OS "Linux", for better or worse. It's probably
fair to call the kernel GNU/Linux, but calling the whole OS GNU/Linux makes
even less sense than naming the whole thing after the kernel. Fedora is what
it is because of the package of decisions that go into what is part of the
OS makes it so, not just b/c it's GNU/GPL compliant. One might further argue
that Linux has "paid" GNU back with exposure and adoption it may well have
never gotten.

We also have to face facts that the GNU/Linux v. Linux debate is rhetoric to
most people. And the reputation of those who most publicly back it is that
of being zealots. The debate and associated zealotry is a turn off. Just
like "free software" v. "open source". Do we want to pacify existing geeks?
Who are no more or less likely to use Fedora GNU/Linux b/c of a name change
(that does nothing to add to the core philosphy, which is what matters). Or
attract users? GNU/Linux does help accomplish the former, but at the
possible expense of the latter.

--jeremy
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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 04:43:45PM +, Leo wrote:
> * Tejas Dinkar (2007-01-11 08:23 -0800) said:
>   
> > etc... etc... etc..
> Are those apps you mentioned in "Debian GNU/Linux"?  I believe they
> apply a much stricter license policy than Fedora.

Are you seriously asking if Debian includes the Linux kernel, the Apache web
server, MySQL, or any of Perl, PHP, or Python?


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Boston University Linux  -->  

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Paul Stauffer]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 08:49:53AM -0800, Ama M wrote:
>   - Who takes the final decision on the name and When?? 

The Fedora Board will need to make the decision eventually.

>   - Are there going to be voting? or put in another way, how will our input 
> on this list influence the decision?? 

Opening issues like this up for a public vote is a Bad Idea for numerous
reasons, most of which should be obvious.

I am sure the board members will consider all the ideas, suggestions, and
arguments made on this list when coming to a consensus on this matter.

>   - Have the NAMES for the been narrowed down to "Fedora" and "Fedora Linux" 
> ?? i dont have any problem with either Fedora or Fedora Linux 

I don't think any formal progress on this issue has been made at this point.

- Paul

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[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Leo]

* Rahul Sundaram (2007-01-11 22:34 +0530) said:
> You are probably talking about GNU FDL documents with invariant
> sections. They do have various other documents licensed differently
> in their package archive. The presence of non-free repository makes
> Fedora's position much more on stronger on Free software licenses
> IMO. I consider the licenses of functional software more important
> that documentation, artwork and content. There are different rules
> that apply. See
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FreeSoftwareAnalysis/FSF

I am very glad to hear this. I think I got the wrong impression.

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Ama M]

Questions: 
   
  - Who takes the final decision on the name and When?? 
   
  - Are there going to be voting? or put in another way, how will our input on 
this list influence the decision?? 
   
  - Have the NAMES for the been narrowed down to "Fedora" and "Fedora Linux" ?? 
i dont have any problem with either Fedora or Fedora Linux 
   
  Have nu year to all 
   
  Regards 
   
  Amaechi Mgbeoji Fedora Ambassador, Nigeria 
   
  - Original Message  
   
  From: Leo To: fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com Sent: Thursday, January 11, 
2007 10:44:20 AM Subject: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get 
Longer Support * Stephen Krenzel (2007-01-11 02:54 -0500) said: ^^^ 
> I have to agree with Susmit. "Fedora" is clean and appealing. "Fedora > 
Linux" doesn't quite have the same ring to it, I am saying if we were to name 
it Fedora Linux, we should use GNU/Linux as GNU is actually the core of the 
system. > and I personally feel that there is no need at all to have GNU > 
anywhere in the name. A lot of people deserve credit for what makes > Fedora 
run, no need to single out any one entity. It's not about credit anyone. It is 
about protecting our freedom of using software. > "Linux" has taken on an 
entirely different meaning than just "the > kernel" these days. But it is just 
the kernel. How people understand it is another matter. > Used in different 
contexts, people think of linux as either just the > kernel or as
 all of the components that generally run on top of it > as well to make the 
operating system "complete". Regardless, my > recommendation would be to just 
make the name "Fedora". Regards, > Steve -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) -- 
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com 
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

 
-
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.Questions:
 
- Who takes the final decision on the name and When??
- Are there going to be voting? or put in another way, how will our input on this list influence the decision??
- Have the NAMES for the  been narrowed down to "Fedora" and "Fedora Linux" ?? i dont have  any problem with either Fedora or Fedora Linux
 
Have nu year to all
 
Regards
 
Amaechi Mgbeoji
 
Fedora Ambassador, Nigeria

- Original Message From: Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: fedora-marketing-list@redhat.comSent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:44:20 AMSubject: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support
* Stephen Krenzel (2007-01-11 02:54 -0500) said:  ^^^> I have to agree with Susmit. "Fedora" is clean and appealing. "Fedora> Linux" doesn't quite have the same ring to it,I am saying if we were to name it Fedora Linux, we should useGNU/Linux as GNU is actually the core of the system.> and I personally feel that there is no need at all to have GNU> anywhere in the name. A lot of people deserve credit for what makes> Fedora run, no need to single out any one entity.It's not about credit anyone. It is about protecting our freedom ofusing software.> "Linux" has taken on an entirely different meaning than just "the> kernel" these days.But it is just the kernel. How people understand it is anothermatter.> Used in different contexts, people think of linux as either just the> kernel or as all of the components that generally run on top of
 it> as well to make the operating system "complete". Regardless, my> recommendation would be to just make the name "Fedora".  Regards,> Steve-- Leo  (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)-- Fedora-marketing-list mailing listFedora-marketing-list@redhat.comhttps://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Rahul Sundaram]

Leo wrote:



AFAIK, they enforce GNU Free Documentation License. Some applications'
manual were taken out and put in its non-free tree.


You are probably talking about GNU FDL documents with invariant 
sections. They do have various other documents licensed differently in 
their package archive. The presence of non-free repository makes 
Fedora's position much more on stronger on Free software licenses IMO. I 
consider the licenses of functional software more important that 
documentation, artwork and content. There are different rules that 
apply. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FreeSoftwareAnalysis/FSF


Rahul

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[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Leo]

* Rahul Sundaram (2007-01-11 22:13 +0530) said:
  ^^
> Leo wrote:
>> * Tejas Dinkar (2007-01-11 08:23 -0800) said:
>>> etc... etc... etc..
>>
>> Are those apps you mentioned in "Debian GNU/Linux"?  I believe they
>> apply a much stricter license policy than Fedora.
>>
>
> What's the basis of that belief? Fedora does not have a non-free
> repository even.
>
> Rahul

AFAIK, they enforce GNU Free Documentation License. Some applications'
manual were taken out and put in its non-free tree.

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Siddharth Upmanyu]

+1 to just 'Fedora'
as far as googlish or newbie understandable naming stands, i dont think we
need to look into it to that extent that we decide what the name of Fedora
to be changed to...
Fedora is the most popular distro these days and people will get educated
about it

GNU and Linux is hot these days... we must make a mark on the road too but
not being in boundries of the big but by creating a brand itself.

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Rahul Sundaram]

Leo wrote:

* Tejas Dinkar (2007-01-11 08:23 -0800) said:
  

etc... etc... etc..


Are those apps you mentioned in "Debian GNU/Linux"?  I believe they
apply a much stricter license policy than Fedora.



What's the basis of that belief? Fedora does not have a non-free 
repository even.


Rahul

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Sup port

[Giuseppe pignataro]

Giuseppe Pignataro
http://www.giuseppepignataro.net
Fedora Core Ambassador for Italy
A KDE italian translator
Socio TAU Visual
Member of ILS

 Messaggio originale 
Oggetto:Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer 
Support
Autore: Igor Jagec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Data:   11 gennaio 2007 10:41:32

susmit shannigrahi wrote:

> But I think "Fedora" is  a better choice
> than "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux".

I can totally agree to that. Make it simple, make it just Fedora. That's
the best way of avoiding the holy war between Linux and GNU/Linux. We
all know that Linux kernel is just a part of a Linux distribution, and
we also know that a Linux distribution has lots of non GNU components.

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+1


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[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Leo]

* Tejas Dinkar (2007-01-11 08:23 -0800) said:
  
> etc... etc... etc..

Are those apps you mentioned in "Debian GNU/Linux"?  I believe they
apply a much stricter license policy than Fedora.

The success of Kernel Linux owes to its GPL license. So do a bunch of
other free software.

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Tejas Dinkar]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Leo sent out 0.7K bytes to say:
> * Jeremy Hogan (2007-01-10 20:27 -0500) said:
>   
> > GNU/Linux isn't as Googlicious as Fedora Linux would be. Plus given
> > the number of non-gpl and non-gnu components
> 
> I'd say that's a small number that is not compliant with GPL.
> 
> That's exactly why we should name the system GNU.

I hate this damn debate.

In any case, naming a thing GNU/* is not because of GPL packages.

It is because of GNU programs. Linux is GPL, linux is NOT GNU.

Some GNU apps include
gnu make
gcc
gnu bin utils
GNU Network Object Model Environment (GNOME for the rest of us)

etc, etc.

KDE is GPL, but not GNU software. Most of fedora is not GNU software.
Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl/Python/Php

A popular linux set up. Not one of LAMP is GNU software.

I once attended a talk by someone on this. He pointed out, why stop at just
GNU?

WE use Apache Software.
Fedora GNU/Apache/Linux

not to mention Qt software
Fedora GNU/Apache/Trolltech/Linux

and stuff we borrowed from BSD
Fedora GNU/Apache./Trolltech/BSD/Linux

etc... etc... etc..
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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Igor Jagec]

susmit shannigrahi wrote:

> But I think "Fedora" is  a better choice
> than "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux".

I can totally agree to that. Make it simple, make it just Fedora. That's
the best way of avoiding the holy war between Linux and GNU/Linux. We
all know that Linux kernel is just a part of a Linux distribution, and
we also know that a Linux distribution has lots of non GNU components.

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[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[Leo]

* Stephen Krenzel (2007-01-11 02:54 -0500) said:
  ^^^
> I have to agree with Susmit. "Fedora" is clean and appealing. "Fedora
> Linux" doesn't quite have the same ring to it,

I am saying if we were to name it Fedora Linux, we should use
GNU/Linux as GNU is actually the core of the system.

> and I personally feel that there is no need at all to have GNU
> anywhere in the name. A lot of people deserve credit for what makes
> Fedora run, no need to single out any one entity.

It's not about credit anyone. It is about protecting our freedom of
using software.

> "Linux" has taken on an entirely different meaning than just "the
> kernel" these days.

But it is just the kernel. How people understand it is another
matter.

> Used in different contexts, people think of linux as either just the
> kernel or as all of the components that generally run on top of it
> as well to make the operating system "complete". Regardless, my
> recommendation would be to just make the name "Fedora".  Regards,
> Steve

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Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Red Hat's Fedora to Get Longer Support

[hymno3]

Fedora!
/me agrees too, Fedora Linux doesn't sound good.
"Fedora" is just fine, as a *name*. Apart from using that name,
marketing bla can add all kinds of subtitles. ;) Such as "Fedora: a
(GNU/)Linux operating system", "Fedora, your open source computing
environment", whatever.

Some arguments:

a) The "linux" in Fedora is not that different from the "Linux" in other
distros; the difference Fedora makes is in other things.

b) People using Fedora will "see" Fedora: its logos, its choice of
software, its installer, its package manager, its artwork. They will not
see Linux.

c) Other successful Linux OSes are often used, and their official names
are, without the word "Linux" attached to it, although people know it's
"Linux inside". Take Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoo. Except for "Suse Linux"
which is more often used together (but Opensuse is not "Opensuse Linux"
either).

d) By avoiding either "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux",
quasi-religious Stallman vs. Torvalds type wars will be avoided, which
is a good thing. Waste of time.

e) "Fedora Linux" would imply that in Fedora it is not possible to
permit the theoretical use of another type of kernel. Solaris, BSD, it's
all free software. Who knows what the future will bring? Linux will be
around for a long time, but it's a strange world.

f) "Fedora" already *is* the name most people give to Fedora. Language
works like that, you can't superimpose names on names that are already
used widely. Three syllables is a perfect amount of syllables. :)

g) "Linux" is a trademark that is not owned by Fedora. This will not
create a problem likely, since Linus Torvalds doesn't put much energy in
protecting his trademark, but you never can tell. It's better to just be
completely *independent*.

h) Especially in Japan and Korea, "Fedora Linux" is a bit nasty to
pronounce (Pedorarinuksu - two r's, unpoetic ;) ). And that's a huge
market for computers and sotware.

For what it's worth.

regards,
Herman


Op do, 11-01-2007 te 12:41 +0530, schreef susmit shannigrahi:
> Does not "Fedora Linux" sound a bit odd?
> No offence please :)
> But I think "Fedora" is  a better choice
> than "Fedora Linux" or "Fedora GNU/Linux".
> 
> -- 
> ssh
> 0x86DD170A
> http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi
> 

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