"Fedora Remix" etymology
I've seen one or two comments popping up on some news sites in response to the "Fedora Remix" proposal that indicate people mistakenly believe this term originated with Canonical and/or Ubuntu. That is not the case. During the run-up to release of Fedora 7, back in the spring and summer of 2007, we were already talking about the remix concept being a part of Fedora. In fact, those tools were a major release feature. I wanted to put this information out in B&W for the Marketing team so you can discuss how we can best put the idea forward. I would rather this be more of a pro-active move than having to find misinformation and step on it. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug pgp2vbkDA4sjh.pgp Description: PGP signature -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
Paul, et. al, I would like to confirm Paul's comments regarding the etymology remix. I am the person who first came up with it and used it, and if I remember correctly that was in a taping session for some Red Hat promotional material (maybe red hat magazine) in the FUDCon at the the run up to F7. Actually, I had been using it for some time before that but that was the first time we officially all kind of agreed that we liked it and adopted it. I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I was working a lot with creative commons at the time. Max Spevack can confirm. Jack Paul W. Frields wrote: I've seen one or two comments popping up on some news sites in response to the "Fedora Remix" proposal that indicate people mistakenly believe this term originated with Canonical and/or Ubuntu. That is not the case. During the run-up to release of Fedora 7, back in the spring and summer of 2007, we were already talking about the remix concept being a part of Fedora. In fact, those tools were a major release feature. I wanted to put this information out in B&W for the Marketing team so you can discuss how we can best put the idea forward. I would rather this be more of a pro-active move than having to find misinformation and step on it. -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I > was working a lot with creative commons at the time. > > Max Spevack can confirm. Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work for F7 that used the terminology? Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree of thought dating back to F7? -jef -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Jeff Spaleta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new > trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree > of thought dating back to F7? Replying to myself. Can we use these previous items as a jumping off point to talk about the updated trademark policy? First Max's message about LiveCDs in the F7 time frame. http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ Lot's of references to "remixing" tools in there. Is the functionality that Max is talking about right there specifically outline the reasoning to update the trademark policy? Can we get Greg to re-voice a second video in this series? http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ Last Image in Video: "Fedora 7 Remixed Remixable" Greg in the video: "Take Fedora and turn it into any distro they need it to be...with trivial amount of work" Here's how I'd say it: Hey guys, sorry it took us a year..but we've re-written our trademark policy to align with the remixing tools and ideas we introduced back in Fedora 7. Sure we talked a lot of about the power of remixing: http://www.redhat.com/v/magazine/ogg/070601_fedora.ogg We even made an uncharacterictly creative attempt at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bs8vZgTURw And yes, we tried to describe the tools: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ But we missed something...our trademark policy. Technology innovations moves stupefyingly fast around here, and our trademark policy wasn't keeping up. What we said for Fedora 7 is still true, we've got the remixing tools in place so anyone, anywhere can take Fedora and make a version that works best for them with a trivial amount of work. What the new trademark policy does is make it easier for people who want to, to associate their remixes with our project. From a technical point of view, its a minor thing. But from a community point of view it might mean a lot, with the trademark change we've made the project more inclusive and given a way for different remix efforts a way to associated with each other as group of peer efforts and as part of a larger Fedora project community. Because the people behind these remixes are Fedora contributors. Hopefully the trademark policy changes make it as trivial for them to say that, as the remixing tools we introduced in F7 make it as trivial for them to be. -jef -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I was working a lot with creative commons at the time. Max Spevack can confirm. Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work for F7 that used the terminology? We don't communicate it at all. We just take the term and swing it around like a 9-iron, and dare someone to take it away from us. And when they do try, we have an aggressive communications plan that says "Fedora: Remixing since 2006. Booyah." Oh, and also, we put "Fedora Remix" in the boot sequence of every OLPC system on earth. Scoreboard. --g -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Greg Dekoenigsberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We just take the term and swing it around > like a 9-iron . . . . Greg must have seen me golf to come up with this analogy . . . . -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I >>> was working a lot with creative commons at the time. >>> >>> Max Spevack can confirm. >> >> Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it >> sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work >> for F7 that used the terminology? > > We don't communicate it at all. We just take the term and swing it around > like a 9-iron, and dare someone to take it away from us. And when they do > try, we have an aggressive communications plan that says "Fedora: Remixing > since 2006. Booyah." I think we are more likely to swing around a putter, and everyone is telling us "Use a frickin' 9 iron you geek!" If there is one thing that Red Hat has been extremely well at doing for over 15 years... its been lack of communication about things we do. We either concentrate on something that only a few people care about (who Red Hat then hires on as they are the ones driving and owrking on it)... or look around in utter astonishment when someone else comes out with something and we say things like "compiling for the i586 is a waste of time, we did some work on it but it made things worse. Hey listen to us.. you aren't getting anything better out of that binary.. look sure we didn't publish it.. we were busy working on cool-geeky-toyX." Oh and we usually have some guy dance around and remind us we all look like geeks waving around a putter when we were supposed to be swinging a 9 iron. [Bonus points when we say "Oh I thought this was a wood."] I agree with GDK on this one. So we were going to use it in 2007 or 2006 or 1998 when some people thought of Mandrake as a remix.. "Oh they are using it cool. Well great minds think a like." and move on moments. I am off to find some coffee before my eyes explode out of my head. > Oh, and also, we put "Fedora Remix" in the boot sequence of every OLPC > system on earth. Scoreboard. > > --g > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: Replying to myself. Can we use these previous items as a jumping off point to talk about the updated trademark policy? First Max's message about LiveCDs in the F7 time frame. http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ Lot's of references to "remixing" tools in there. Is the functionality that Max is talking about right there specifically outline the reasoning to update the trademark policy? I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used. And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude, Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :) --Max -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
Hi, > I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM > article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of > establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used. > > And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude, > Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :) I'm not sure I understood very well, but is this thread about knowing who between Ubuntu and Fedora is the first one who used the term "remix" ? If it's not, maybe I should read it more carefully, but if it is, how could that matter ? o_O Regards, -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador -- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 03:12:35PM +0200, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: > Hi, > > > I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM > > article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of > > establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used. > > > > And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude, > > Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :) > > I'm not sure I understood very well, but is this thread about knowing who > between Ubuntu and Fedora is the first one who used the term "remix" ? > > If it's not, maybe I should read it more carefully, but if it is, how > could that matter ? o_O The term remix has been around for a long time before any Linux distribution started using it. It started with the corporate music business, and progressed down to professional and then indie DJ's, and now to any kid with a few minutes of spare time and an audio application that lets them do mashups. Heck, some artists give their raw tracks away and ask their fans to produce them. (I really dig the Nine Inch Nails fans' "The Limitless Potential" album for some cool remixes of "Year Zero" tracks.) That's a lot like the overall progress of our culture, moving the power and concepts of building on pre-existing science and art from the hands of the few to the hands of the many. Yesterday, I was looking through some comments responding to press about some of the Fedora remixes that are starting to trickle out. And there I saw a couple of people -- not a lot, just a couple -- floating the idea that somehow Fedora was copying other distributions' remix concepts. And honestly, it *did* bother me, because we have been working on this since 2006, and even made a big deal about it in the run-up to Fedora 7 in May 2007. The entire reason we were in the driver's seat on making remixable distributions -- as with so many other features -- is that we do all our work in the open, freely distributable and modifiable by everyone. Developing these remix tools freely and openly is how we've always made Fedora, and we're going to continue to embrace that idea. I'm not saying that no one else should do it -- on the contrary! Wouldn't that be hypocritical, to encourage remixes and then say that no one else should do the same? What I *am* trying to say is that the whole concept behind the remix culture is that you *give credit* where it's due. When I remix Nine Inch Nails, I don't claim to have written the music, I just take the tracks that Trent, et al. created, and put them together differently. So it strikes me as a little bit "Johnny come lately" when I see other people not only claiming to have invented the concept but somehow intimating that it should be exclusive. In this age of rumor being taken for fact, the loudest voice overpowering the written record, and hyperlinks replacing evidence, it's important that we keep history and reality in mind. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug pgppoH7Ax1VJd.pgp Description: PGP signature -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: "Fedora Remix" etymology
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeff Spaleta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I >> was working a lot with creative commons at the time. >> >> Max Spevack can confirm. > > > Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it > sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work > for F7 that used the terminology? > > Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new > trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree > of thought dating back to F7? There are pages with chronological views on the artwork of Fedora, complete with screenshots and related things. Maybe we should do the same for remixing. Try to contact all the people who have done remixes of some kind, and get a chronological view on this, starting with the OLPC and moving on to the CC remix, etc... Perhaps even with statements from companies that do internal mixing. Then, we need to make sure it gets some viewage, though I'm not sure about how to go about that. This will at least give us a serious talking point about Fedora and remixing without having to be rude to an obnoxious Ubuntu fan who wants to claim that Canonical made the phrase up. -Yaakov -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
