Fedora upgrades and LTS
What I never seen in the Fedora updates (within a release) are major release upgrades of packages. Example: Openoffice.org is releasing v3, but that will never make it into the updates of F9, (might be wrong here!) to get upgrades like this, one has to manually install it or switch to F10. This is the same for many packages and follows the Fedora almost bleeding edge frontline philosophy. I like beeing near the front, using new software, but I'm starting to get tired of upgrading every 6month to a new release. This is because it's never flawless and ultra smoth to upgrade (not yet anyway) always some packages thats been obsolete or replaced, some functionallity thats totally different and needs a bit of working to upgrade. I've done it over the years, but a clean install often feels .. cleaner!.. and frankly it's to tiresome to do a clean install so you go with the upgrade (command line) ... solve the problems that occur and then continue to work.. This is still not anything for your grandma to attempt (and that is what it should be in the end) easy and clean! (a notification that appears, F10 is now out! upgrade system?) So this is something that an LTS version absolutely must have, new versions of software within a release and a smoth upgrade path. And smoth upgrades on a system that has additional software installed, not only a basic system setup. Even if this isn't any news, upgrading a system has never been a ride in the park.. not with any os / platform other than maybe a basic install without additional components. Why even have releases... F8, F9 F10 etc.. I guess freezes are good for making new install media. But shouldn't updates/upgrades be sufficient. And sometimes on the time line functionallity changes will be part of that updates/upgrades, called mailestones. Wouldn't this be the ultimate LTS distro? (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of rawhide) //Jonas -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: Fedora upgrades and LTS
>> This is still not >> anything for your grandma to attempt (and that is what it should be in >> the end) easy and clean! (a notification that appears, F10 is now out! >> upgrade system?) So this is something that an LTS version absolutely >> must have, new versions of software within a release and a smoth upgrade >> path. And smoth upgrades on a system that has additional software >> installed, not only a basic system setup. > > This type of notification would be a good thing, it's exactly what > Ubuntu does. http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/08/22/packagekit-03x-new-features/ -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador -- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: Fedora upgrades and LTS
Jonas Karlsson wrote: What I never seen in the Fedora updates (within a release) are major release upgrades of packages. Example: Openoffice.org is releasing v3, but that will never make it into the updates of F9, (might be wrong here!) to get upgrades like this, one has to manually install it or switch to F10. Incorrect. Fedora releases *do* get major revisions as updates. Kernel releases or even major KDE versions have gone into updates for an existing release. We don't push everything as updates however. Why even have releases... F8, F9 F10 etc.. I guess freezes are good for making new install media. But shouldn't updates/upgrades be sufficient. And sometimes on the time line functionallity changes will be part of that updates/upgrades, called mailestones. Wouldn't this be the ultimate LTS distro? (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of rawhide) Never ending "stable version of rawhide" is just not possible. If all major versions are pushed as updates into existing releases, Fedora releases will become just like rawhide ... with the associated fun *and* instability. Rahul -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Re: Fedora upgrades and LTS
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 13:18 +0200, Jonas Karlsson wrote: > What I never seen in the Fedora updates (within a release) are major > release upgrades of packages. Example: Openoffice.org is releasing v3, > but that will never make it into the updates of F9, (might be wrong > here!) to get upgrades like this, one has to manually install it or > switch to F10. It happens sometimes, Firefox 2 to 3 was an example if I remember correctly. The problem with OpenOffice is the number of dependencies. Try a "yum update --enablerepo=rawhide openoffice*" and you'll see the problem. The main problem here is that your needs (an up to date Desktop Fedora) may not be the same as other people's needs (up to date LAMP install). So it's difficult to decide what to upgrade in the first place. > This is the same for many packages and follows the Fedora > almost bleeding edge frontline philosophy. I like beeing near the front, > using new software, but I'm starting to get tired of upgrading every > 6month to a new release. This is because it's never flawless and ultra > smoth to upgrade (not yet anyway) always some packages thats been > obsolete or replaced, some functionallity thats totally different and > needs a bit of working to upgrade. I've done it over the years, but a > clean install often feels .. cleaner!.. and frankly it's to tiresome to > do a clean install so you go with the upgrade (command line) ... solve > the problems that occur and then continue to work. Why don't you simply have a separate /home and keep a list of installed programs somewhere? A standard Fedora installation + a big yum install yoursoftwarelit and you have a clean new system in about 2-3h. Sometimes there is just a bit of housecleaning to do in you /home. > This is still not > anything for your grandma to attempt (and that is what it should be in > the end) easy and clean! (a notification that appears, F10 is now out! > upgrade system?) So this is something that an LTS version absolutely > must have, new versions of software within a release and a smoth upgrade > path. And smoth upgrades on a system that has additional software > installed, not only a basic system setup. This type of notification would be a good thing, it's exactly what Ubuntu does. I just don't see a solution for tainted systems. Maybe we should have a document on the wiki explaining how to upgrade (if it doesn't already exist). > Even if this isn't any news, upgrading a system has never been a ride in > the park.. not with any os / platform other than maybe a basic install > without additional components. Preupgrade is exactly supposed to do this, but again you can't make miracles on tainted systems. The same happens on Windows, upgrades never work well as soon as you have software installed. > Why even have releases... F8, F9 F10 etc.. I guess freezes are good for > making new install media. But shouldn't updates/upgrades be sufficient. > And sometimes on the time line functionallity changes will be part of > that updates/upgrades, called mailestones. Wouldn't this be the ultimate > LTS distro? (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of > rawhide) People like releases, releases make news on websites, having a reachable goal is the very basic of project management. That's how we freeze rawhide, that's how we debug correctly. Having rawhide and a continuously up to date and stable release are two mutually exclusive things IMO. Steven -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
