Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
wrote:

> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the
> bill.
>
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or
> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and
> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel
> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of
> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.
>
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I
> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
> short-term solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte
> count was basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and
> should be increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is
> producing red cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had
> had a reaction with his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions
> were possible since the next one would kill him, 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

Wishing you luck.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
> wrote:
1 mg 2 times a day.

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
 On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
> wrote:
No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and should be 
increased in cases of anemia to 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

1 mg 2 times a day.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
> wrote:
No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and should be 
increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is producing red 
cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with 
his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the 
next one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his 
haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped to 10 when 
I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.

Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??

Amani

From: Felvtalk 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want
to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
wrote:

> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the
> bill.
>
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or
> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and
> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel
> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of
> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.
>
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I
> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
> short-term solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte
> count was basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and
> should be increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is
> producing red cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had
> had a reaction with his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions
> were possible since the next one would kill him, and I was all out of
> options as I watched his haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by
> week. It had dropped to 10 when I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in
> my drawer.
>
>
>
> Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 9:15 AM
> 

[Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and should be 
increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is producing red 
cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with 
his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the 
next one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his 
haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped to 10 when 
I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.

Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-16-16 9:15 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing 
Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary 
infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress her immune 
system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson 

Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

[dlmF]

My vet has never told me to put down my FelV cats. and some of them have 
lived to be 8 or 9 years old and have never been sick. Others have not 
been as fortunate and those I treat until I see that I am only keeping 
them alive and they are suffering. Those poor cats should be put to sleep.


Lorrie

On 12/16/2016 04:55 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:


Hi Randy

Thank you for your kind comments. I think that we came together in 
this forum because all of us were really fed up with the fact that 
most of us encountered vets who immediately tell us to put down our 
FeLV cats. I personally have vented many times in emails, about the 
extreme difficulty most folks are encountering when asking for a 
Winstrol prescription (it’s a LONG story), and vets often refuse to 
prescribe it because of a concern that it MAY cause liver problems. 
So, bizarrely enough, they are s concerned about our cats’ 
well-being, that they would rather have them dead than subject them to 
a potential side-effect. Make sense???


All of us in this group are dedicated to trying to find a solution, 
rather than a knee-jerk response of putting down the cat. But yeah, I 
too encounter folks everywhere who think I am coo-coo for coco puffs!


Amani

*From:*Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On 
Behalf Of *Randy Henke

*Sent:* December-15-16 10:22 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

I am new to this mailing list, our precious cat, Curly, having been 
just recently diagnosed with FELV but already quite sick twice and 
just beginning to rally (fingers crossed) from her second bout with 
severe anemia and leukopenia.


I just wanted to say how much I admire every one of you here who go to 
such great lengths for their pets, nursing them back from the brink 
time and again, spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for 
treatment after treatment to give them as much time with us as we 
possibly can.


My wife and I are both surrounded by friends and co-workers who think 
we are fools for caring so much about an animal. They ask why we are 
so melancholy and then look at us with disbelief when we tell them the 
reason. Their philosophy is to take good care of their pets but when 
they get seriously ill, it's time to put them down and move on.


To me, such thinking could only come from cold, heartless and selfish 
individuals. Sometimes I actually envy them because life would be so 
much easier if I could think like they do. But I can't and I won't. 
Just because a family member has four legs instead of two doesn't 
diminish their worth nor does it detract from their will to live. We 
do them an egregious disservice by shortening their lives when there 
are still viable options on the table that can provide additional 
months or even weeks of quality life.


The devotion and empathy that you people have for your cats is so 
touching to me that I am sitting here right now crying.


God bless every one of you.

Randy



___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

[dlmF]

I can see this issue from both sides.  I am fortunate to have enough 
money to treat my sick cats but not everyone has.   I spend no money on 
anything but my cats, as to me they are my family members. I have 13 
rescued cats at home and pay huge vet bills as they are older now and 
some have chronic illnesses.  This is what I want to do, but not 
everyone can do this, and putting down a sick cat is their only option.


Lorrie


On 12/15/2016 10:43 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

my neighbors all think I am crazy also, in fact they call me the crazy cat 
lady.  one even said all catsd and stray dogs are good for is target practice 
and I told himstay away from my house or he will end up on the ground beside my 
cats.

You do what gives you pleasure and caring for our cats gives pleasure.  the 
love they give us can not be measured and being alone at 76, i think i would 
loose my sanity if they were not here to give me love and companship.

 Randy Henke  wrote:

I am new to this mailing list, our precious cat, Curly, having been just
recently diagnosed with FELV but already quite sick twice and just
beginning to rally (fingers crossed) from her second bout with severe
anemia and leukopenia.

I just wanted to say how much I admire every one of you here who go to such
great lengths for their pets, nursing them back from the brink time and
again, spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment after
treatment to give them as much time with us as we possibly can.

My wife and I are both surrounded by friends and co-workers who think we
are fools for caring so much about an animal. They ask why we are so
melancholy and then look at us with disbelief when we tell them the reason.
Their philosophy is to take good care of their pets but when they get
seriously ill, it's time to put them down and move on.

To me, such thinking could only come from cold, heartless and selfish
individuals. Sometimes I actually envy them because life would be so much
easier if I could think like they do. But I can't and I won't. Just because
a family member has four legs instead of two doesn't diminish their worth
nor does it detract from their will to live. We do them an egregious
disservice by shortening their lives when there are still viable options on
the table that can provide additional months or even weeks of quality life.

The devotion and empathy that you people have for your cats is so touching
to me that I am sitting here right now crying.

God bless every one of you.

Randy


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Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Thank you so much for that info, Sherri. I'm going to continue with the
interferon and the Prednisone and talk to my vet early next week about
Winstrol and Doxycycline. She's hanging in there for the moment. Drinking
well, eating quite a bit of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers which is the only
thing she is interested in at the moment, grooming herself again and
beginning to want attention.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Sherri Godschalk 
wrote:

> Randy,
>
> So sorry to hear about your Tigger.
>
> I will also add my experience for the Winstrol, Doxy and Prednisolone.
> This combination of drugs is saving the life of my cat. I don’t understand
> all of the science of how the medicine works on creating new red blood
> cells. Amani does though! But when my cat was diagnosed as anemic (due to
> FELV) she was prescribed both of the steroids initially and she, within
> weeks, got more energy, ate more (important), played more. Her numbers
> didn’t raise much but she felt better and adjusted to the lower counts. I
> feared too about the suppressed immunity. Get her blood tested often. I
> kept her box clean…disposable pans, Secondhand News litter. Washed her
> dishes all the time. She was a stray and yearns to be outdoors but we never
> let her. Added supplements. We really didn’t see a noticeable change in the
> numbers until they added Doxy a couple of months later. This kitty cocktail
> has allowed my cats numbers to rise to normal levels in 4 months. Without
> out I don’t think she would still be with us. The benefits certainly
> outweigh the risks as far as I am concerned. She is struggling with
> something unrelated right now but is recovering because these drugs made
> her strong enough to do so. I don’t think you will find one person on this
> forum that isn’t thankful that they could get, or wish that they could.
>
> Just my 2 cents. Wishing you the best.
>
> Sherri
>
> From: Felvtalk  on behalf of Randy
> Henke 
> Reply-To: 
> Date: Friday, December 16, 2016 at 9:14 AM
>
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
> It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
> Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary
> infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress her
> immune system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson 
> wrote:
>
>> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
>> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
>> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>>
>> Ardy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Amani Oakley
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:02 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>> Regardless of the cause of the anemia, I have repeatedly recommended
>> Winstrol (Stanazolol) which is used for intractable severe anemia in humans
>> and animals. If you are new to this group, you may not have seen the
>> difficulty most people face when trying to get Winstrol for their cats. See
>> if your vet will prescribe it, but be aware that a vet usually has to order
>> it from a compounding pharmacy. I agree that you should also use prednisone
>> (or prednisolone, as recommended by others) along with the Winstrol.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
>> *Sent:* December-14-16 1:48 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>>
>> I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct
>> that she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K.  wrote:
>>
>> Randy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared.
>> Did your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but
>> I'm not very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or
>> advice there. There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty
>> active a couple years ago, not sure about now, but at least you could
>> search the archives. I had an 8 month old kitten die from anemia, but he
>> was definitely FeLV positive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Talk to your vet about prednisolone, instead of prednisone. My 14 yo FeLV
>> cat has been on it for a long time now. He also gets mirtazapine every few
>> days, which stimulates his appetite.
>>
>>
>>
>> Keep us posted on Curly!
>>
>>
>>
>> Katherine
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Randy Henke  wrote:
>>
>> Our cat, 

Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 19

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Randy .

I wouldn't be so quick to rush to judgement about those who put their 
animals down when they become seriously ill... there are fiscal concerns 
to be considered and not everyone has the " hundreds of thousands of 
dollars" to put into uninsurable cats  My two FeLV cats have are 
wiping me out fiscally literally , every penny I had saved for MY 
extra's in retirement are gone and I can't EVEN go back to work because 
one requires medicine 4 times a day.  When humans get terribly ill, 
more often than not there is insurance to lighten the fiscal load AND a 
host of service givers who will come to the house to care for them at 
rates FAR more reasonable than what pet care providers charge ( an 
outrageously overpriced "cottage" industry)..   My own plans for my 
retirement have been, in no uncertain terms, utterly destroyed... I have 
no partner I have no kids, I have no friends that are as attached to 
animals as I am who support me in my( thus far) willingness TO sacrifice 
my retirment to the welfare of these precious little creatures whose 
welfare I take very seriouslyBUT... I am going to reach a point 
where I simply canNOT do it anymore and I really do NOT appreciate being 
regarded as Heartless,cold and selfish if I decide that I have reached 
this point before I no longer have the means to support MYself.. 
I've shed more tears over these cats ( and other unlucky creatures) than 
I care to remember and it will CRUSH me to put either of them down 
but If I'm not fiscally viable I won't even be able to maintain a 
household that would allow me to FOSTER cats in the future




On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 11:17 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
wrote:



Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: For all the kind souls who care so much
  (dlg...@windstream.net)
   2. Re: FW:  FW:  FW:  Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat
  (dlg...@windstream.net)
   3. Re: FW:  FW:  FW:  Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat (Ardy 
Robertson)



--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 21:43:48 -0600
From: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much
Message-ID: <20161215224348.K7TFL.7096.root@pamxwww03-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

my neighbors all think I am crazy also, in fact they call me the crazy 
cat lady.  one even said all catsd and stray dogs are good for is 
target practice and I told himstay away from my house or he will end 
up on the ground beside my cats.


You do what gives you pleasure and caring for our cats gives pleasure. 
the love they give us can not be measured and being alone at 76, i 
think i would loose my sanity if they were not here to give me love 
and companship.


 Randy Henke  wrote:
I am new to this mailing list, our precious cat, Curly, having been 
just

recently diagnosed with FELV but already quite sick twice and just
beginning to rally (fingers crossed) from her second bout with severe
anemia and leukopenia.

I just wanted to say how much I admire every one of you here who go 
to such
great lengths for their pets, nursing them back from the brink time 
and

again, spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment after
treatment to give them as much time with us as we possibly can.

My wife and I are both surrounded by friends and co-workers who think 
we

are fools for caring so much about an animal. They ask why we are so
melancholy and then look at us with disbelief when we tell them the 
reason.

Their philosophy is to take good care of their pets but when they get
seriously ill, it's time to put them down and move on.

To me, such thinking could only come from cold, heartless and selfish
individuals. Sometimes I actually envy them because life would be so 
much
easier if I could think like they do. But I can't and I won't. Just 
because
a family member has four legs instead of two doesn't diminish their 
worth

nor does it detract from their will to live. We do them an egregious
disservice by shortening their lives when there are still viable 
options on
the table that can provide additional months or even weeks of quality 
life.


The devotion and empathy that you people have for your cats is so 
touching

to me that I am sitting here right now crying.

God bless every one of you.

Randy





--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 21:46:23 -0600
From: To: 

Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Sherri Godschalk]

Randy,

So sorry to hear about your Tigger.

I will also add my experience for the Winstrol, Doxy and Prednisolone. This
combination of drugs is saving the life of my cat. I don¹t understand all of
the science of how the medicine works on creating new red blood cells. Amani
does though! But when my cat was diagnosed as anemic (due to FELV) she was
prescribed both of the steroids initially and she, within weeks, got more
energy, ate more (important), played more. Her numbers didn¹t raise much but
she felt better and adjusted to the lower counts. I feared too about the
suppressed immunity. Get her blood tested often. I kept her box
cleanŠdisposable pans, Secondhand News litter. Washed her dishes all the
time. She was a stray and yearns to be outdoors but we never let her. Added
supplements. We really didn¹t see a noticeable change in the numbers until
they added Doxy a couple of months later. This kitty cocktail has allowed my
cats numbers to rise to normal levels in 4 months. Without out I don¹t think
she would still be with us. The benefits certainly outweigh the risks as far
as I am concerned. She is struggling with something unrelated right now but
is recovering because these drugs made her strong enough to do so. I don¹t
think you will find one person on this forum that isn¹t thankful that they
could get, or wish that they could.

Just my 2 cents. Wishing you the best.

Sherri

From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Randy
Henke 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Friday, December 16, 2016 at 9:14 AM
To:  
Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary
infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress her immune
system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson 
wrote:
> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the prednisolone
> and doxycycline.
> Best of luck!
> Ardy
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani
> Oakley
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:02 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>  
> Randy
>  
> Regardless of the cause of the anemia, I have repeatedly recommended Winstrol
> (Stanazolol) which is used for intractable severe anemia in humans and
> animals. If you are new to this group, you may not have seen the difficulty
> most people face when trying to get Winstrol for their cats. See if your vet
> will prescribe it, but be aware that a vet usually has to order it from a
> compounding pharmacy. I agree that you should also use prednisone (or
> prednisolone, as recommended by others) along with the Winstrol.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy
> Henke
> Sent: December-14-16 1:48 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>  
> 
> I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct that
> she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K.  wrote:
> 
> Randy,
> 
>  
> 
> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared. Did
> your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but I'm not
> very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or advice there.
> There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty active a couple
> years ago, not sure about now, but at least you could search the archives. I
> had an 8 month old kitten die from anemia, but he was definitely FeLV
> positive. 
> 
>  
> 
> Talk to your vet about prednisolone, instead of prednisone. My 14 yo FeLV cat
> has been on it for a long time now. He also gets mirtazapine every few days,
> which stimulates his appetite.
> 
>  
> 
> Keep us posted on Curly!
> 
>  
> 
> Katherine
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Randy Henke  wrote:
>> 
>> Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and had
>> her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly an
>> indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected cats.
>> Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
>> moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
>> and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
>> suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids, started
>> her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone. Three days
>> later she was about the same so we took her back to the 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat FRIDAY

[Sherri Godschalk]

Good morning everyone. It has been a good day here. After the week that we
have had, to have my little Bogey go and find her litter and start burying
things was music to my ears. I figured after that she would just try to
return to bed after. But she walked around looking for her food dish. I
grabbed it and sat it on the floor and she ate kibble without me even
prodding her to do so. Also some watered down wet food. Gently groomed
herself after. Clear urine and finally a very good bowel movement.

We are not out of the woods I know. She is still very weak and jaundice but
less so. These are small milestones but we celebrated them.

Even though she ate wet (Fancy Feast) and kibble on her own today. I am
going to still force the A/D, L/D and water. She has lost about a pound
through all of this. I started giving her about half the dose that I was of
Petinic vitamins.

I am not going to take her in for SUBQ. They are open tomorrow so that is a
possibility if anything worsens. My reasoning: My vet, I appreciate
everything he has done with her. Especially because he is giving her the
chance to live with the Winstrol and Doxy. She would be gone by now if not
for him. He’s a great guy and his staff is wonderful. But when I took her in
for treatment for this, he really didn’t want to do anything for her.
Actually said he wouldn’t because she was suffering. He did eventually agree
to a hospital stay with IV. I believe I have to nurse her back myself so as
to not jeopardize any future treatments for her. It’s a slippery slope. At
this point and after THAT soft bowel movement and her urinating regularly I
am going to continue on as I have been. I hope it is the right decision. I
will learn how to do that myself for the next time.

Sherri





From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 8:31 PM
To:  "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject:  [Felvtalk] FW:  FW:  FW:  Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat

Sherri
 
Even without the issue of jaundice, if Bogey is dehydrated, the urine will
be darker.
 
Sherri, do you know how to give subcutaneous fluids? It is very easy.
Perhaps ask your vet to show you how. You just lift the loose skin at the
back of the neck, and you inject or run fluids into that gap under the skin,
behind the neck. The body will absorb the fluids as needed, so there is
virtually no risk of giving too much fluid – any excess fluid is just peed
out.
 
It is a life-saving technique that I wouldn’t be without. I always keep
several bags of fluid in the house (ringer’s lactate/saline/5% dextrose – I
hang onto any bags I can get) for use in an emergency. A droopy cat will
often respond immediately and miraculously to subcutaneous fluids – usually
saline or the ringer’s lactate.
 
Amani
 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Sherri Godschalk
Sent: December-15-16 5:49 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat
 

Well I cannot seem to find anything that she will voluntarily drink. I think
chicken broth is next. She groomed herself some today. But the last time she
urinated it had started to turn more orange. Maybe this is expected? She
does have more bounce in her step. Walking straighter lines and less wobbly.
She is fighting me feeding her which is more her style. She meowed at me
today when I called her name. What a wonderful sound that was.

 

From: Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To: 
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 8:04 AM
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat

 

You can take your milk and dilute it with warm water and stir it around.
 
Amani
 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Sherri Godschalk
Sent: December-15-16 8:13 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Update on Bogey My FELV + Cat
 

Hi Amani. This morning’s urine was also pretty clear. I will pick up some
baby food today. She isn’t refusing to eat. She just is really too weak. If
I hold her and let her lick it off my hand she does great. Almost a half of
a 5.5 oz can already today. She has not vomited. I thought about milk but
she has yet to have a bowel movement and I didn’t want to constipate her
more. I think I will offer her some at next feeding. I drink whole milk so I
think I will pick up some Whiskas today too.

 

I was surprised that the vet told me to start the Winstrol again so soon. I
thought that was not a good plan.

 

Thanks for the input Amani.

 

From: Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To: 
Date: Thursday, December 15, 

Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

[Sherri Godschalk]

So well said Randy and I mirror all of your comments. I sometimes put upon
my pets what I would want someone to do for me if were to become seriously
ill. My sister got so angry with me that I didn’t put my dog down after he
started losing his hair and stumbling about. The vet could find nothing
wrong (1500 dollars worth of tests?) with him, said he was old and scolded
me for taking him home instead of euthanizing him. I Googled for hours,
found some articles about symptoms of low thyroid and called a new vet the
next day. His thyroid levels were undetectable. One little cheap pill every
day and he lived to be 16 after a very tough life before being rescued. I
can tell you my old vet was pretty humiliated when I called to tell him what
he had missed. He is still in business though, telling other pet owners that
their old animals are doomed.

We know our pets. We know when they are ready. Trust that. Keep searching
and don’t lose hope.

Best to you and Curly.

Sherri


From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Amani
Oakley 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Friday, December 16, 2016 at 4:55 AM
To:  "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

Hi Randy
 
Thank you for your kind comments. I think that we came together in this
forum because all of us were really fed up with the fact that most of us
encountered vets who immediately tell us to put down our FeLV cats. I
personally have vented many times in emails, about the extreme difficulty
most folks are encountering when asking for a Winstrol prescription (it’s a
LONG story), and vets often refuse to prescribe it because of a concern that
it MAY cause liver problems. So, bizarrely enough, they are s concerned
about our cats’ well-being, that they would rather have them dead than
subject them to a potential side-effect. Make sense???
 
All of us in this group are dedicated to trying to find a solution, rather
than a knee-jerk response of putting down the cat. But yeah, I too encounter
folks everywhere who think I am coo-coo for coco puffs!
 
Amani 
 
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Randy Henke
Sent: December-15-16 10:22 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much
 

I am new to this mailing list, our precious cat, Curly, having been just
recently diagnosed with FELV but already quite sick twice and just beginning
to rally (fingers crossed) from her second bout with severe anemia and
leukopenia.

I just wanted to say how much I admire every one of you here who go to such
great lengths for their pets, nursing them back from the brink time and
again, spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment after
treatment to give them as much time with us as we possibly can.

My wife and I are both surrounded by friends and co-workers who think we are
fools for caring so much about an animal. They ask why we are so melancholy
and then look at us with disbelief when we tell them the reason. Their
philosophy is to take good care of their pets but when they get seriously
ill, it's time to put them down and move on.

To me, such thinking could only come from cold, heartless and selfish
individuals. Sometimes I actually envy them because life would be so much
easier if I could think like they do. But I can't and I won't. Just because
a family member has four legs instead of two doesn't diminish their worth
nor does it detract from their will to live. We do them an egregious
disservice by shortening their lives when there are still viable options on
the table that can provide additional months or even weeks of quality life.

The devotion and empathy that you people have for your cats is so touching
to me that I am sitting here right now crying.

God bless every one of you.
Randy

 
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Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

[dlgegg]

RIGHT ON!

 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> Hi Randy
> 
> Thank you for your kind comments. I think that we came together in this forum 
> because all of us were really fed up with the fact that most of us 
> encountered vets who immediately tell us to put down our FeLV cats. I 
> personally have vented many times in emails, about the extreme difficulty 
> most folks are encountering when asking for a Winstrol prescription (it’s a 
> LONG story), and vets often refuse to prescribe it because of a concern that 
> it MAY cause liver problems. So, bizarrely enough, they are s concerned 
> about our cats’ well-being, that they would rather have them dead than 
> subject them to a potential side-effect. Make sense???
> 
> All of us in this group are dedicated to trying to find a solution, rather 
> than a knee-jerk response of putting down the cat. But yeah, I too encounter 
> folks everywhere who think I am coo-coo for coco puffs!
> 
> Amani
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Randy Henke
> Sent: December-15-16 10:22 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much
> 
> I am new to this mailing list, our precious cat, Curly, having been just 
> recently diagnosed with FELV but already quite sick twice and just beginning 
> to rally (fingers crossed) from her second bout with severe anemia and 
> leukopenia.
> 
> I just wanted to say how much I admire every one of you here who go to such 
> great lengths for their pets, nursing them back from the brink time and 
> again, spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment after 
> treatment to give them as much time with us as we possibly can.
> 
> My wife and I are both surrounded by friends and co-workers who think we are 
> fools for caring so much about an animal. They ask why we are so melancholy 
> and then look at us with disbelief when we tell them the reason. Their 
> philosophy is to take good care of their pets but when they get seriously 
> ill, it's time to put them down and move on.
> 
> To me, such thinking could only come from cold, heartless and selfish 
> individuals. Sometimes I actually envy them because life would be so much 
> easier if I could think like they do. But I can't and I won't. Just because a 
> family member has four legs instead of two doesn't diminish their worth nor 
> does it detract from their will to live. We do them an egregious disservice 
> by shortening their lives when there are still viable options on the table 
> that can provide additional months or even weeks of quality life.
> 
> The devotion and empathy that you people have for your cats is so touching to 
> me that I am sitting here right now crying.
> 
> God bless every one of you.
> Randy
> 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary
infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress her
immune system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson 
wrote:

> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Amani Oakley
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:02 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> Regardless of the cause of the anemia, I have repeatedly recommended
> Winstrol (Stanazolol) which is used for intractable severe anemia in humans
> and animals. If you are new to this group, you may not have seen the
> difficulty most people face when trying to get Winstrol for their cats. See
> if your vet will prescribe it, but be aware that a vet usually has to order
> it from a compounding pharmacy. I agree that you should also use prednisone
> (or prednisolone, as recommended by others) along with the Winstrol.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-14-16 1:48 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct
> that she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K.  wrote:
>
> Randy,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared.
> Did your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but
> I'm not very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or
> advice there. There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty
> active a couple years ago, not sure about now, but at least you could
> search the archives. I had an 8 month old kitten die from anemia, but he
> was definitely FeLV positive.
>
>
>
> Talk to your vet about prednisolone, instead of prednisone. My 14 yo FeLV
> cat has been on it for a long time now. He also gets mirtazapine every few
> days, which stimulates his appetite.
>
>
>
> Keep us posted on Curly!
>
>
>
> Katherine
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Randy Henke  wrote:
>
> Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and had
> her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly an
> indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected cats.
>
> Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
> moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
> and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
> suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids,
> started her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone.
> Three days later she was about the same so we took her back to the vet.
> This time they ran an ELISA test to rule out FELV even though it was
> incredibly unlikely given her history. It came back positive. They drew
> blood at that time for an IFA test to confirm it and told us to discontinue
> the prednisone immediately.
>
> By the next day, Curly was feeling better and she quickly bounced back to
> her old self which I suspect was due to the three days of prednisone
> treatment. The IFA test came back negative.
>
> We were content to think the ELISA was a false positive because Curly
> seemed fine until a couple of weeks ago when she became listless and
> anti-social again. Another blood test showed her to again be very anemic.
>
> We are very confused about what to do. The negative IFA really has me
> wondering. From my understanding, that test is 99.9% accurate in detecting
> the second stage of leukemia.
>
> A negative IFA should mean only one of two things:
>
> 1. The cat is not infected with FELV.
>
> 2. The cat is in the early stages and has not progressed to the second
> stage of the disease where the virus infects the bone marrow.
>
> That would mean that, in order for the anemia to have been caused by
> leukemia, the IFA should have definitely been positive at that point
> because it would need to be actively compromising the bone marrow's
> functioning.
>
> I am leaning toward trying prednisone again, especially since she is
> hardly eating or moving around at this point. If anyone can point out if my
> logic is flawed, please do so. Any suggestions would be very much
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> ___
> 

Re: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

[Amani Oakley]

Hi Randy

Thank you for your kind comments. I think that we came together in this forum 
because all of us were really fed up with the fact that most of us encountered 
vets who immediately tell us to put down our FeLV cats. I personally have 
vented many times in emails, about the extreme difficulty most folks are 
encountering when asking for a Winstrol prescription (it’s a LONG story), and 
vets often refuse to prescribe it because of a concern that it MAY cause liver 
problems. So, bizarrely enough, they are s concerned about our cats’ 
well-being, that they would rather have them dead than subject them to a 
potential side-effect. Make sense???

All of us in this group are dedicated to trying to find a solution, rather than 
a knee-jerk response of putting down the cat. But yeah, I too encounter folks 
everywhere who think I am coo-coo for coco puffs!

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-15-16 10:22 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] For all the kind souls who care so much

I am new to this mailing list, our precious cat, Curly, having been just 
recently diagnosed with FELV but already quite sick twice and just beginning to 
rally (fingers crossed) from her second bout with severe anemia and leukopenia.

I just wanted to say how much I admire every one of you here who go to such 
great lengths for their pets, nursing them back from the brink time and again, 
spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment after treatment to give 
them as much time with us as we possibly can.

My wife and I are both surrounded by friends and co-workers who think we are 
fools for caring so much about an animal. They ask why we are so melancholy and 
then look at us with disbelief when we tell them the reason. Their philosophy 
is to take good care of their pets but when they get seriously ill, it's time 
to put them down and move on.

To me, such thinking could only come from cold, heartless and selfish 
individuals. Sometimes I actually envy them because life would be so much 
easier if I could think like they do. But I can't and I won't. Just because a 
family member has four legs instead of two doesn't diminish their worth nor 
does it detract from their will to live. We do them an egregious disservice by 
shortening their lives when there are still viable options on the table that 
can provide additional months or even weeks of quality life.

The devotion and empathy that you people have for your cats is so touching to 
me that I am sitting here right now crying.

God bless every one of you.
Randy

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