Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-06 Thread Debbie Harrison

Thanks, MChe has made me a champion for the FeLV/FIV cause, that's for 
sure...thanks for the kind words.

Debbie (COL)
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"  Philo


 
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:19:13 -0400
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> { COL } -- part of his job in this world was to teach you that hard,
> hard lesson. you only fail him if you forget the lesson and don't share
> it with others.
> 
> yur pal, MC
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-06 Thread MaryChristine
{ COL } -- part of his job in this world was to teach you that hard,
hard lesson. you only fail him if you forget the lesson and don't share
it with others.

yur pal, MC

-- 
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-06 Thread Debbie Harrison

Yes, it's true...but now I have the knowledge to jump in their face about it, 
MCand you can believe I will!  My anger and guilt at having put a 
completely asymptomatic cat down because of my vet's (and yes, my own) 
ignorance still burns brightly to this day...he was such a perfect, beautiful 
boyand he deserved better

Debbie (COL)
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"  Philo


 
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:47:15 -0400
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> the problem is that way too many still DO! but you know that.
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-05 Thread MaryChristine
the problem is that way too many still DO! but you know that.

-- 
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-05 Thread Debbie Harrison

Ten years ago that's what the vet would have told you...I know, because they 
did!

Debbie (COL)
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"  Philo


 
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:18:25 -0400
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> amazing how things change when you learn the facts, isn't it? sometimes it
> amazes me to realize that even less than ten years ago i actually thought
> that a positive outdoor kitty breathing through a screen door at the
> housecats could infect them.
> 
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Gloria B. Lane  wrote:
> 
> > I agree - didn't used to, but after living with FELV and FIV and normal
> > cats for several years, I really think that's a better approach.
> >
> > Gloria
> >
> > --
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-05 Thread MaryChristine
amazing how things change when you learn the facts, isn't it? sometimes it
amazes me to realize that even less than ten years ago i actually thought
that a positive outdoor kitty breathing through a screen door at the
housecats could infect them.

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Gloria B. Lane  wrote:

> I  agree - didn't used to, but after living with FELV and FIV and normal
> cats for several years, I really think that's a better approach.
>
> Gloria
>
> --
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

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Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-05 Thread Gloria B. Lane
I  agree - didn't used to, but after living with FELV and FIV and  
normal cats for several years, I really think that's a better approach.


Gloria




On Oct 5, 2009, at 11:55 AM, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote:


THANKYOU.CATHY

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Stray Cat Alliance > wrote:



From: Stray Cat Alliance 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 11:12 AM



Here here! I wish we would no  longer test at all. If a cat is sick,  
they are sick. Treat that.



It just seems like cats always get the short end of every stick -  
while I love dogs - they are much higher up the totem pole than  
cats, who are way down at the bottom.




Why don't we declaw dogs? Or test them for parvo - or whatever?


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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-05 Thread CATHERINE DIDONNA
THANKYOU.CATHY

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Stray Cat Alliance  wrote:


From: Stray Cat Alliance 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 11:12 AM



Here here! I wish we would no  longer test at all. If a cat is sick, they are 
sick. Treat that.


It just seems like cats always get the short end of every stick - while I love 
dogs - they are much higher up the totem pole than cats, who are way down at 
the bottom. 



Why don't we declaw dogs? Or test them for parvo - or whatever? 

              
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-02 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

Here here! I wish we would no  longer test at all. If a cat is sick, they are 
sick. Treat that.


It just seems like cats always get the short end of every stick - while I love 
dogs - they are much higher up the totem pole than cats, who are way down at 
the bottom. 

 

Why don't we declaw dogs? Or test them for parvo - or whatever? 

  
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-10-01 Thread MaryChristine
i've seen a number of studies that give rates of infection in the wild, and
in housecat populations--i just don't remember where right now. in NO case
have any of them ever been above 10%, and i think it's actually under 5% for
both.

when they say, "the two most prevalent fatal diseases in cats," they don't
say that that DOESN"T mean they're common

as for FeLV, it was first identified as an entity in 1964 in glasgow,
scotland. the bigger problem is that FIV was named in either '86 or '87,
during the heyday of the HIV/AIDS panic. and the name itself has killed far
more cats than the virus ever will.

but the point about there not being any cats left were these two so deadly
is vital to remember--unfortunately, it's even more true for FIP--which is
neither infectious, nor peritonitis: FIP tends to kill much more quickly, so
if it were contagious, there wouldn't be catteries, or shelters, or
sanctuaries with any cats.

sometimes i wonder, too, about why we bother testing: as chris says,
ignorance is bliss

MC


On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Chris  wrote:

> You know, there really is a lack of exhaustive studies on this whole
> question.  Mortality rates are based on study of cats who already test
> positive.
>

-- 
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-30 Thread Chris
You know, there really is a lack of exhaustive studies on this whole
question.  Mortality rates are based on study of cats who already test
positive.  And, I have never been able to find a really good study on the
prevalence of either FIV or FELV...  Studies are done of particular
colonies, or of some sort of controlled population.  But absent some
scientific, purely random and large scale testing of owned as well as
strays/ferals, I do not believe that anybody really knows how many cats are
out there with these conditions.  Absent that, it's a tossup to make
predictions on rates of transmissions.

The one 'fact' that has always struck me is that neither of these viruses
are considered new--they have been around since forever.  If they were
indeed as lethal or contagious as some would have you think, then there
would be no cats left.  Remember that its only a recent development, even in
this country, that cats are taken to vets for shots, for testing, etc.  We
always had cats when I was a kid but I could count on one hand the number of
times any of them went to a vet.  Since all our cats were strays that we
took in, I can only assume that at least one or two were positive for
something.  I know this will sound very crass, but in some ways, ignorance
was bliss... Our cats were loved, well taken care of, and lived happy, (and
generally) long lives...  

Christiane Biagi
Cell:  914-720-6888
ti...@mindspring.com 


-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:01 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: rchestert...@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

i think that the stress issue is far more important, especially for ferals.
translocating to a sanctuary is not an issue with housecats, and while
living with large numbers of cats CAN be very stressful, when the cats are
somewhat socialized to people, it's quite possible to provide them with a
comfortable environment. not easy, but possible.

one of the reasons that it's so hard to find FIV space at sanctuaries is
that they DO live forever or close enough.

dr levy, like most researchers, are not going to state that something is
absolutely safe until and unless there is actual data backing that up;
unfortunately, we've gone so many years without adequate research being done
that some important questions still remain unanswered. agaih, this is why
the discussions about using, "captive" populations come up.

from my experience, feral FeLVs did less well in a sanctuary enviroment than
did strays or more social cats; didn't see the same thing with the FIVs--tho
the ferals stayed away from the horrible humans (who would make their fur
fall out if they got close enough, i'm told that mamaferals tell them).
actually, feral non-positives did less well than other cats did, too--being
around people, even tho we left them alone (except when necessary, tho we
checked them visually every day), was NOT a good thing to them.

so i'm not sure that the rules DO apply equally.

i don't know what actual figures exist for transmission of FIV without
fighting; i know that sanctuaries will foster out, or segregate, any cats
who continue to be aggressive after neutering.

MC



On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Stray Cat Alliance <
stray_cat_allia...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I disagree on a few points.
>
>
> --
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-30 Thread MaryChristine
i think that the stress issue is far more important, especially for ferals.
translocating to a sanctuary is not an issue with housecats, and while
living with large numbers of cats CAN be very stressful, when the cats are
somewhat socialized to people, it's quite possible to provide them with a
comfortable environment. not easy, but possible.

one of the reasons that it's so hard to find FIV space at sanctuaries is
that they DO live forever or close enough.

dr levy, like most researchers, are not going to state that something is
absolutely safe until and unless there is actual data backing that up;
unfortunately, we've gone so many years without adequate research being done
that some important questions still remain unanswered. agaih, this is why
the discussions about using, "captive" populations come up.

from my experience, feral FeLVs did less well in a sanctuary enviroment than
did strays or more social cats; didn't see the same thing with the FIVs--tho
the ferals stayed away from the horrible humans (who would make their fur
fall out if they got close enough, i'm told that mamaferals tell them).
actually, feral non-positives did less well than other cats did, too--being
around people, even tho we left them alone (except when necessary, tho we
checked them visually every day), was NOT a good thing to them.

so i'm not sure that the rules DO apply equally.

i don't know what actual figures exist for transmission of FIV without
fighting; i know that sanctuaries will foster out, or segregate, any cats
who continue to be aggressive after neutering.

MC



On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Stray Cat Alliance <
stray_cat_allia...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I disagree on a few points.
>
>
> --
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-30 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

I disagree on a few points.

 
The article on the Castaway Critters site is not that old - perhaps 3 or 4 
years at most. I have spoken via email with Dr. Levy on several occasions - in 
fact, in late 2008, regarding this very issue.
 
Some recent info from Dr. Levy and link to her info - also while this is 
specifically regarding ferals it can certainly be applied to pet cats as well 
 


 From Dr. Julie Levy on mixing cats: The first part of your question is fairly 
easy. If you are planning to confine cats for the rest of their lives in a 
sanctuary, I think they should be tested and segregated based on their 
infection status. 

Although transmission among adult cats that do not fight is relatively low, it 
is not zero. The risk of transmission is higher among cats that are housed in 
large groups and that are under physical or psychological stress, which might 
be expected to occur when translocating cats to a sanctuary. 

In most cases, sanctuaries quickly fill up to the holding capacity and then the 
sanctuary is virtually closed to new admissions. It would be more difficult to 
care for the cats over many years if infectious diseases are circulating among 
them. An excellent model for a feral cat sanctuary is at Best Friends Animal 
Sanctuary (WildCats Village, buttons #10 and #11 at 
http://www.bestfriends.com/atthesanctuary/animals/cats.cfm).  

All cats are affected by the stress of close confinement with large numbers of 
other cats, because that is not a natural environment for the species. Cats 
with FeLV and FIV are more susceptible to the adverse effects of this stress 
than uninfected cats. We see this commonly when infected cats come to TNR 
looking very healthy and then deteriorate when they are confined in sanctuaries 
or shelters. Cats with FIV generally are expected to live for many years, often 
into old age. Cats with FeLV may not survive as long but often thrive in a 
supportive environment.
 
(from the above - cats with FIV are expected to live long - so that is a big 
reason to ask any sanctuary how long the cats who are FIV positive are living 
once they are accepted into the sanctuary).
 
Stress of bringing a feral cat a new environment with many other cats is 
detrimental to health 
http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/college/departments/sacs/facultystaff/julielevy.html  
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-30 Thread MaryChristine
sorry, but that's not what happens in the real world. for years, we've been
trying to get research done in sanctuaries that actually have populations to
test, but as there's no money in it for phamaceutical companies, it hasn't
happened.

in real life, FIVs throw off FeLV just as the 70% of non-FIVs do. once a cat
tests positive for FIV (using the western blot), it is NOT fighting off the
virus, but is persistenly infected. additionally as the vast majority of
FIVs spent time on the streets, the odds that they've already been exposed
to FeLV is great. FIV cats generally live near-normal lifespans, regardless
of whom they live with.

to be honest, no cat that tests positive for FeLV should be placed with
other FeLVs until it's had enough time to be retested--because that new cat
could very well be testing positive while its.body is processing out the
virus, so exposing it to different strains in a FeLV-only environment is
hardly the best place for it.

as for following aafp guidelines, that would mean that no FeLV or FIV would
EVER BE KILLED on the basis of a single test, and that is something that
happens every single day.
also, the aafp has updated its testing and management guidelines--the one in
this article is the 2001 version. the new one is available on their website,
www.catvets.com.

70% of adult cats exposed to FeLV will not remain persistently viremic--Mr
Kortis' comments are not based in reality. but it's hard to tell when this
article was written, and since dr levy and others have started doing
research with FeLVs again, much has change

i'm also unclear about how his statements work for TNR: the article mentions
how many groups no longer test; but it sounds as if a colony shows up with a
FeLV member, and FIV members, that the FIVs won't be returned to the colony?
or will the FeLVs--the low percentage in well-managed colonies, as noted--be
taken out and killed?

MC



On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Stray Cat Alliance <
stray_cat_allia...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Respectfully, I disagree.
>
>
>
> Quoting from this article,
> http://www.castawaycritters.org/info/display.php?PageID=157
>
>
-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

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Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-30 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

Respectfully, I disagree. 

 

Quoting from this article, 
http://www.castawaycritters.org/info/display.php?PageID=157

"Some caretakers believe that placing cats that initially test positive for 
either FIV, FeLV or both, together is a viable option. It is important to keep 
in mind that the cats may be in the process of fighting off a virus. If one 
makes the decision to test, it is important to follow the AAFP testing 
guidelines and re-test. 
 
Even if a cat happens to be FIV+, Neighborhood Cats founder Bryan Kortis says 
"An FIV cat especially should not be around FeLVs, because an FIV cat could 
lead a very long life around other, non-FIV cats. But putting them around FeLV 
positives means they'll catch that virus too, being immune-compromised, and die 
early.""
***
And vaccinating already immune compromised cats? Hmm, it doesn't seem like such 
a good idea.
 
We must do what is morally and ethically right, rather than what is easy.
 

 
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:30:06 -0400
> To: rchestert...@verizon.net
> CC: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> fyi, there is no evidence that FIVs are any less able to throw off FeLV than
> are other cats--in fact, FIVs tend to be the healthiest populations in all
> sanctuary settings.
> 
> while it might not be the optimum arrangement, until there are more places
> who are willing to take positive of both sorts in, it beats the alternative
> of just killing one or the other group.
> 
> i don't know if best little cat house vaccinates their FIVs against FeLV,
> but if they do, that makes problems almost non-existent.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-28 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

Best thing to do is ask how long cats live once they go to a sanctuary, any 
sanctuary and if they are medicated or vaccinated at all. If they have a limit 
of number of cats they take in also and how they are funded.

 

And of course, visit.

 
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:51:58 -0400
> From: furrygi...@gmail.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> CC: rchestert...@verizon.net
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> I just had a young adult male test FIV+, weak FELV+, and about 45 days later
> FELV negative, confirmed on IFA.
> 
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:30 PM, MaryChristine 
> wrote:
> 
> > fyi, there is no evidence that FIVs are any less able to throw off FeLV
> > than
> > are other cats--in fact, FIVs tend to be the healthiest populations in all
> > sanctuary settings.
> >
> > while it might not be the optimum arrangement, until there are more places
> > who are willing to take positive of both sorts in, it beats the alternative
> > of just killing one or the other group.
> >
> > i don't know if best little cat house vaccinates their FIVs against FeLV,
> > but if they do, that makes problems almost non-existent.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> > Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> >
> > MaryChristine
> > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org
> > )
> > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
> ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-28 Thread Heather
I just had a young adult male test FIV+, weak FELV+, and about 45 days later
FELV negative, confirmed on IFA.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:30 PM, MaryChristine wrote:

> fyi, there is no evidence that FIVs are any less able to throw off FeLV
> than
> are other cats--in fact, FIVs tend to be the healthiest populations in all
> sanctuary settings.
>
> while it might not be the optimum arrangement, until there are more places
> who are willing to take positive of both sorts in, it beats the alternative
> of just killing one or the other group.
>
> i don't know if best little cat house vaccinates their FIVs against FeLV,
> but if they do, that makes problems almost non-existent.
>
>
>
> --
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
>
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org
> )
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-09-27 Thread MaryChristine
fyi, there is no evidence that FIVs are any less able to throw off FeLV than
are other cats--in fact, FIVs tend to be the healthiest populations in all
sanctuary settings.

while it might not be the optimum arrangement, until there are more places
who are willing to take positive of both sorts in, it beats the alternative
of just killing one or the other group.

i don't know if best little cat house vaccinates their FIVs against FeLV,
but if they do, that makes problems almost non-existent.



-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-31 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

Maybe it is not such a bad idea if checking out a sanctuary to ask how long the 
cats typically live. As well as how they are funded and what happens to the 
cats should something happen to them, etc.


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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-31 Thread Sharyl
Dorlis,
Yes they ask for a donation to support the kitties left to them but it is up to 
the individual - no set amount per cat.  Here is the link to their web site.
http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/

Check out the Safety Net program.
Sharyl

--- On Sun, 8/30/09, dlg...@windstream.net  wrote:

> From: dlg...@windstream.net 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Cc: "Alice Hanson" 
> Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 5:02 PM
> do they ask for donations when you
> send a cat there or do they leave that up to you?  i
> was thinking of taking out a small life policy to go with my
> babies when the time comes.  make them the
> beneficiary.  dorlis
>  Alice Hanson 
> wrote: 
> > It is a good place, Sharyl. One of my beloved kitties,
> Milo, lives there. They send you pictures and newsletters
> too. You made the right choice.
> > Alice
> >   - Original Message - 
> >   From: Sharyl<mailto:cline...@yahoo.com>
> 
> >   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> 
> >   Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:53 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   I had the opportunity to visit the
> C&W Rustic Hollow Shelter in IA.  Looking for a
> forever home for my cats when I die.  They have a
> excellent set up with multiple houses/buildings/barns. 
> Each building is heated and has air conditioning.  Most
> windows have an attached screened-in enclosure so the
> kitties can enjoy the nice weather.  There are several
> TVs in each building running kitties videos.  
> > 
> >   Most of the buildings are old but it
> is obvious the kitties are well loved.  In addition to
> a paid staff, volunteers come in every day to feed the
> kitties and scoop the litter boxes.   
> > 
> >   The rooms had hand me down furniture
> for the kitties to lounge on.  It isn't the Ritz but
> everything was clean.  They have a board of directors
> and plans in place to keep the facility going if/when
> something happens to the original owners.  
> > 
> >   Most importantly they will take FeLV+
> kitties and other special needs kitties.  I am having
> my will changed so my cats will go there when the time
> comes.  I sponsor one of their kitties with
> neurological issues.
> > 
> >   Here is the link to their web site if
> anyone is interested. 
> >   http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/<http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/>
> > 
> >   Sharyl



  

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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-30 Thread MaryChristine
and as someone once told me, "forget about visualizing world peace, it's
time we start ACTUALIZING it"

love one another. i don't recall that statement coming with a number-of-legs
or freedom-from-virii condition.

MC

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Susan Hoffman wrote:

> Yeah, that and an end to world hunger and peace in our timeTill, then,
> we just keep treading water and do the best we can.
>
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Cc: MaryChristine 
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:40:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
>
> yes, a sanctuary in every ton would be ideal, but so would a world where
> people did not hurt one another and animals just for the fun of it.  until
> that tim, we have to do the best we can for ourselves and our animals.  try
> to live our lives as an example to othersand hope they catch on.  till that
> time, i will continue to take in any cat that comes my way, give them love,
> shelter and food.  what time God gives them on this earth will at least be
> happier for them.  this time around, i got 2 by way of my vet.  he can't
> stand to put them down, so he fixes/heals them and waits for me t come in.
> he said i have sucker written on my forehead just as plain as day.  dorlis
>  MaryChristine  wrote:
> > just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is
> NOT
> > necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
> > generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
> > FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
> > cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV
> after
> > living in a FeLV environment.
> >
> > remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
> > adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
> > willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
> > while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
> > very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
> > unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.
> >
> > folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also,
> to
> > be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two
> viruses,
> > and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean
> you're
> > gonna BE one of the them.
> >
> > which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly
> believe
> > what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry
> it
> > out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
> > town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening,
> and
> > these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.
> >
> > MC
> >
> > --
> > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> > Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> >
> > MaryChristine
> > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (
> www.purebredcats.org)
> > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 
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Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-30 Thread dlgegg
do they ask for donations when you send a cat there or do they leave that up to 
you?  i was thinking of taking out a small life policy to go with my babies 
when the time comes.  make them the beneficiary.  dorlis
 Alice Hanson  wrote: 
> It is a good place, Sharyl. One of my beloved kitties, Milo, lives there. 
> They send you pictures and newsletters too. You made the right choice.
> Alice
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Sharyl<mailto:cline...@yahoo.com> 
>   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
>   Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> 
> 
>   I had the opportunity to visit the C&W Rustic Hollow Shelter in IA.  
> Looking for a forever home for my cats when I die.  They have a excellent set 
> up with multiple houses/buildings/barns.  Each building is heated and has air 
> conditioning.  Most windows have an attached screened-in enclosure so the 
> kitties can enjoy the nice weather.  There are several TVs in each building 
> running kitties videos.  
> 
>   Most of the buildings are old but it is obvious the kitties are well loved. 
>  In addition to a paid staff, volunteers come in every day to feed the 
> kitties and scoop the litter boxes.   
> 
>   The rooms had hand me down furniture for the kitties to lounge on.  It 
> isn't the Ritz but everything was clean.  They have a board of directors and 
> plans in place to keep the facility going if/when something happens to the 
> original owners.  
> 
>   Most importantly they will take FeLV+ kitties and other special needs 
> kitties.  I am having my will changed so my cats will go there when the time 
> comes.  I sponsor one of their kitties with neurological issues.
> 
>   Here is the link to their web site if anyone is interested. 
>   http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/<http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/>
> 
>   Sharyl
> 
>   --- On Mon, 6/1/09, MaryChristine 
> mailto:twelvehousec...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>   > From: MaryChristine 
> mailto:twelvehousec...@gmail.com>>
>   > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
>   > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
>   > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:45 PM
>   > of course if depends on quality of
>   > life, but you also have to have a
>   > realistic definition of what that means. i've found that
>   > many people tend to
>   > judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what
>   > they would like
>   > to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT
>   > necessarily what a
>   > sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
>   > 
>   > people often have unrealistic expectation of the places
>   > that take in the
>   > unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror
>   > stories to go around,
>   > until more folks can step up and share the burden, they
>   > perhaps need to
>   > revise down their own personal standards.
>   > 
>   > let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to
>   > sanctuaries nearby
>   > where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's
>   > talk with people
>   > who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to
>   > care for large
>   > number of critters, and see what it's like to make the
>   > choices needed. let's
>   > ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them,
>   > and plush
>   > surroundings are NOT the standard
>   > 
>   > MC
>   > -- 
>   > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
>   > Maybe That'll Make The Difference
>   > 
>   > MaryChristine
>   > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
>   > (www.purebredcats.org<http://www.purebredcats.org/>)
>   > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
>   > ___
>   > Felvtalk mailing list
>   > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
>   > 
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org<http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org>
>   > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-30 Thread dlgegg
if the cats have plenty of room to avoid a cat they don't like or that doesn't 
like them, shelter, food and someone to scratch their chin, rub their back, 
play with them a bit and lots of windows to look out, maybe even an outside 
play room, i think they would think that ideal.  my babies do.  they don't need 
me too much, just to open the cans, open and close the doors and provide a lap 
for personal nap time.  dorlis
 MaryChristine  wrote: 
> of course if depends on quality of life, but you also have to have a
> realistic definition of what that means. i've found that many people tend to
> judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what they would like
> to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT necessarily what a
> sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
> 
> people often have unrealistic expectation of the places that take in the
> unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror stories to go around,
> until more folks can step up and share the burden, they perhaps need to
> revise down their own personal standards.
> 
> let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to sanctuaries nearby
> where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's talk with people
> who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to care for large
> number of critters, and see what it's like to make the choices needed. let's
> ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them, and plush
> surroundings are NOT the standard
> 
> MC
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-30 Thread Susan Hoffman
Yeah, that and an end to world hunger and peace in our timeTill, then, we 
just keep treading water and do the best we can.



- Original Message 
From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: MaryChristine 
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:40:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

yes, a sanctuary in every ton would be ideal, but so would a world where people 
did not hurt one another and animals just for the fun of it.  until that tim, 
we have to do the best we can for ourselves and our animals.  try to live our 
lives as an example to othersand hope they catch on.  till that time, i will 
continue to take in any cat that comes my way, give them love, shelter and 
food.  what time God gives them on this earth will at least be happier for 
them.  this time around, i got 2 by way of my vet.  he can't stand to put them 
down, so he fixes/heals them and waits for me t come in.  he said i have sucker 
written on my forehead just as plain as day.  dorlis 
 MaryChristine  wrote: 
> just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is NOT
> necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
> generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
> FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
> cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV after
> living in a FeLV environment.
> 
> remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
> adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
> willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
> while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
> very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
> unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.
> 
> folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also, to
> be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two viruses,
> and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean you're
> gonna BE one of the them.
> 
> which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly believe
> what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry it
> out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
> town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening, and
> these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.
> 
> MC
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-08-30 Thread dlgegg
yes, a sanctuary in every ton would be ideal, but so would a world where people 
did not hurt one another and animals just for the fun of it.  until that tim, 
we have to do the best we can for ourselves and our animals.  try to live our 
lives as an example to othersand hope they catch on.  till that time, i will 
continue to take in any cat that comes my way, give them love, shelter and 
food.  what time God gives them on this earth will at least be happier for 
them.  this time around, i got 2 by way of my vet.  he can't stand to put them 
down, so he fixes/heals them and waits for me t come in.  he said i have sucker 
written on my forehead just as plain as day.  dorlis 
 MaryChristine  wrote: 
> just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is NOT
> necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
> generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
> FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
> cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV after
> living in a FeLV environment.
> 
> remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
> adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
> willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
> while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
> very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
> unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.
> 
> folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also, to
> be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two viruses,
> and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean you're
> gonna BE one of the them.
> 
> which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly believe
> what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry it
> out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
> town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening, and
> these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.
> 
> MC
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread dlgegg
went to C & W's site and i like what i see.  the cats are not in a sterile 
"shelter" building, but in homes which they are used to.  plan to visit since 
they are closest to me and have a personal look see.  this does seem like the 
place for my babies since theya re used to running my house, sleeping wherever 
they want, eating when they want.  only difference would be they could not roam 
the woods like they do now, but that would be a small price to pay for their 
safety and security.  they do seem to have plenty of places to sit and lay, 
just can't catch the mice.  course mice give them worms sometimes as i found 
out.  dorlis
 Alice Hanson  wrote: 
> It is a good place, Sharyl. One of my beloved kitties, Milo, lives there. 
> They send you pictures and newsletters too. You made the right choice.
> Alice
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Sharyl<mailto:cline...@yahoo.com> 
>   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
>   Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> 
> 
>   I had the opportunity to visit the C&W Rustic Hollow Shelter in IA.  
> Looking for a forever home for my cats when I die.  They have a excellent set 
> up with multiple houses/buildings/barns.  Each building is heated and has air 
> conditioning.  Most windows have an attached screened-in enclosure so the 
> kitties can enjoy the nice weather.  There are several TVs in each building 
> running kitties videos.  
> 
>   Most of the buildings are old but it is obvious the kitties are well loved. 
>  In addition to a paid staff, volunteers come in every day to feed the 
> kitties and scoop the litter boxes.   
> 
>   The rooms had hand me down furniture for the kitties to lounge on.  It 
> isn't the Ritz but everything was clean.  They have a board of directors and 
> plans in place to keep the facility going if/when something happens to the 
> original owners.  
> 
>   Most importantly they will take FeLV+ kitties and other special needs 
> kitties.  I am having my will changed so my cats will go there when the time 
> comes.  I sponsor one of their kitties with neurological issues.
> 
>   Here is the link to their web site if anyone is interested. 
>   http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/<http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/>
> 
>   Sharyl
> 
>   --- On Mon, 6/1/09, MaryChristine 
> mailto:twelvehousec...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>   > From: MaryChristine 
> mailto:twelvehousec...@gmail.com>>
>   > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
>   > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
>   > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:45 PM
>   > of course if depends on quality of
>   > life, but you also have to have a
>   > realistic definition of what that means. i've found that
>   > many people tend to
>   > judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what
>   > they would like
>   > to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT
>   > necessarily what a
>   > sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
>   > 
>   > people often have unrealistic expectation of the places
>   > that take in the
>   > unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror
>   > stories to go around,
>   > until more folks can step up and share the burden, they
>   > perhaps need to
>   > revise down their own personal standards.
>   > 
>   > let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to
>   > sanctuaries nearby
>   > where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's
>   > talk with people
>   > who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to
>   > care for large
>   > number of critters, and see what it's like to make the
>   > choices needed. let's
>   > ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them,
>   > and plush
>   > surroundings are NOT the standard
>   > 
>   > MC
>   > -- 
>   > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
>   > Maybe That'll Make The Difference
>   > 
>   > MaryChristine
>   > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
>   > (www.purebredcats.org<http://www.purebredcats.org/>)
>   > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
>   > ___
>   > Felvtalk mailing list
>   > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
>   > 
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org<http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org>
>   > 
> 
> 
>  

Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Alice Hanson
It is a good place, Sharyl. One of my beloved kitties, Milo, lives there. They 
send you pictures and newsletters too. You made the right choice.
Alice
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sharyl<mailto:cline...@yahoo.com> 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary



  I had the opportunity to visit the C&W Rustic Hollow Shelter in IA.  Looking 
for a forever home for my cats when I die.  They have a excellent set up with 
multiple houses/buildings/barns.  Each building is heated and has air 
conditioning.  Most windows have an attached screened-in enclosure so the 
kitties can enjoy the nice weather.  There are several TVs in each building 
running kitties videos.  

  Most of the buildings are old but it is obvious the kitties are well loved.  
In addition to a paid staff, volunteers come in every day to feed the kitties 
and scoop the litter boxes.   

  The rooms had hand me down furniture for the kitties to lounge on.  It isn't 
the Ritz but everything was clean.  They have a board of directors and plans in 
place to keep the facility going if/when something happens to the original 
owners.  

  Most importantly they will take FeLV+ kitties and other special needs 
kitties.  I am having my will changed so my cats will go there when the time 
comes.  I sponsor one of their kitties with neurological issues.

  Here is the link to their web site if anyone is interested. 
  http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/<http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/>

  Sharyl

  --- On Mon, 6/1/09, MaryChristine 
mailto:twelvehousec...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  > From: MaryChristine 
mailto:twelvehousec...@gmail.com>>
  > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
  > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
  > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:45 PM
  > of course if depends on quality of
  > life, but you also have to have a
  > realistic definition of what that means. i've found that
  > many people tend to
  > judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what
  > they would like
  > to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT
  > necessarily what a
  > sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
  > 
  > people often have unrealistic expectation of the places
  > that take in the
  > unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror
  > stories to go around,
  > until more folks can step up and share the burden, they
  > perhaps need to
  > revise down their own personal standards.
  > 
  > let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to
  > sanctuaries nearby
  > where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's
  > talk with people
  > who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to
  > care for large
  > number of critters, and see what it's like to make the
  > choices needed. let's
  > ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them,
  > and plush
  > surroundings are NOT the standard
  > 
  > MC
  > -- 
  > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
  > Maybe That'll Make The Difference
  > 
  > MaryChristine
  > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
  > (www.purebredcats.org<http://www.purebredcats.org/>)
  > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
  > ___
  > Felvtalk mailing list
  > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
  > 
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org<http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org>
  > 




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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread dlgegg
we have only 2 or 3 rescue groups in our area and they are entirely volunteer 
staffed.  they are not too good at keeping boxes clean and really don't have 
time to socialize the kitties and dogs in their care.  most of them come in 
after work or go in before work.  pretty hectic schedule.  now that my Mary is 
recovering from her stroke and her son Lane can take her to rehab, i am going 
to get with the closest group and volunteer to go in an clean and spend time 
with the kids in their care.  having 6 of my own, with 2 felv pos, i iknow that 
it takes a lot of time to clean boxes, feed and spend some personal time with 
each of my babies so no one feels left out.  i have been fortunate, none of my 
girls and 1 boy have any real health issues  right now, just worms.  been 
passing out the meds for that and some of them don't like taking meds.  by the 
time i get Revolution for all 6, keep shots up to date, my vet loves me.  i 
think i spend more time with him than i do iwth my own doctor.  one last one to 
spay, she showed up when in heat and lost her tail to a raccoon i think because 
she goes bananas whenever she sees one and tries to hide between my chair and 
me.  as soon as she is out of heat, she goes to see the doctor because she is 
driving me and all the girls crazy with her howling, etc.  even if she was not 
felv pos, can't let her get pregnant, she is too small, less than 6 lbs.  vet 
says not safe for her to have kittens.  i can see the need for spaying as she 
just paces all night long, howling, crying.  she never gets any sleep and has 
lost weight and hair.  vet said that happens when in heat.  to go thru that 
several times a year would be torture for me, know must be for her.  
it seems that so many kitties have gone since i last logged in.  i know how 
each one of you must feel, it is like loosing one of my own children when one 
of my babies passes on.  God be with you and give you another baby to take 
their place.  dorlis
 Sharyl  wrote: 
> 
> I had the opportunity to visit the C&W Rustic Hollow Shelter in IA.  Looking 
> for a forever home for my cats when I die.  They have a excellent set up with 
> multiple houses/buildings/barns.  Each building is heated and has air 
> conditioning.  Most windows have an attached screened-in enclosure so the 
> kitties can enjoy the nice weather.  There are several TVs in each building 
> running kitties videos.  
> 
> Most of the buildings are old but it is obvious the kitties are well loved.  
> In addition to a paid staff, volunteers come in every day to feed the kitties 
> and scoop the litter boxes.   
> 
> The rooms had hand me down furniture for the kitties to lounge on.  It isn't 
> the Ritz but everything was clean.  They have a board of directors and plans 
> in place to keep the facility going if/when something happens to the original 
> owners.  
> 
> Most importantly they will take FeLV+ kitties and other special needs 
> kitties.  I am having my will changed so my cats will go there when the time 
> comes.  I sponsor one of their kitties with neurological issues.
> 
> Here is the link to their web site if anyone is interested. 
> http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/
> 
> Sharyl
> 
> --- On Mon, 6/1/09, MaryChristine  wrote:
> 
> > From: MaryChristine 
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:45 PM
> > of course if depends on quality of
> > life, but you also have to have a
> > realistic definition of what that means. i've found that
> > many people tend to
> > judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what
> > they would like
> > to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT
> > necessarily what a
> > sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
> > 
> > people often have unrealistic expectation of the places
> > that take in the
> > unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror
> > stories to go around,
> > until more folks can step up and share the burden, they
> > perhaps need to
> > revise down their own personal standards.
> > 
> > let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to
> > sanctuaries nearby
> > where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's
> > talk with people
> > who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to
> > care for large
> > number of critters, and see what it's like to make the
> > choices needed. let's
> > ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them,
> > and plush
> > surroundings are NOT the standard
> > 
> > MC
> > -- 
> > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> > Ma

Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Sharyl

I had the opportunity to visit the C&W Rustic Hollow Shelter in IA.  Looking 
for a forever home for my cats when I die.  They have a excellent set up with 
multiple houses/buildings/barns.  Each building is heated and has air 
conditioning.  Most windows have an attached screened-in enclosure so the 
kitties can enjoy the nice weather.  There are several TVs in each building 
running kitties videos.  

Most of the buildings are old but it is obvious the kitties are well loved.  In 
addition to a paid staff, volunteers come in every day to feed the kitties and 
scoop the litter boxes.   

The rooms had hand me down furniture for the kitties to lounge on.  It isn't 
the Ritz but everything was clean.  They have a board of directors and plans in 
place to keep the facility going if/when something happens to the original 
owners.  

Most importantly they will take FeLV+ kitties and other special needs kitties.  
I am having my will changed so my cats will go there when the time comes.  I 
sponsor one of their kitties with neurological issues.

Here is the link to their web site if anyone is interested. 
http://www.rustichollowshelter.org/

Sharyl

--- On Mon, 6/1/09, MaryChristine  wrote:

> From: MaryChristine 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:45 PM
> of course if depends on quality of
> life, but you also have to have a
> realistic definition of what that means. i've found that
> many people tend to
> judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what
> they would like
> to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT
> necessarily what a
> sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
> 
> people often have unrealistic expectation of the places
> that take in the
> unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror
> stories to go around,
> until more folks can step up and share the burden, they
> perhaps need to
> revise down their own personal standards.
> 
> let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to
> sanctuaries nearby
> where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's
> talk with people
> who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to
> care for large
> number of critters, and see what it's like to make the
> choices needed. let's
> ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them,
> and plush
> surroundings are NOT the standard
> 
> MC
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
> (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 


  

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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread CATHERINE DIDONNA
the ASPCA sends cats there.

--- On Mon, 6/1/09, Stray Cat Alliance  wrote:


From: Stray Cat Alliance 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:30 PM



Wouldn't it depend on quality of life? Any "sanctuary" should be checked out 
prior with a personal visit and some questions. 







> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:09:33 -0400
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is NOT
> necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
> generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
> FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
> cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV after
> living in a FeLV environment.
> 
> remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
> adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
> willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
> while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
> very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
> unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.
> 
> folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also, to
> be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two viruses,
> and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean you're
> gonna BE one of the them.
> 
> which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly believe
> what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry it
> out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
> town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening, and
> these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.
> 
> MC
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Kelley Saveika
I'd like to add - you can't have ANY quality of life if you are DEAD.

See "The Fallacy of "Fates Worse than Death" by Nathan Winograd

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=1076

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:45 PM, MaryChristine wrote:

> of course if depends on quality of life, but you also have to have a
> realistic definition of what that means. i've found that many people tend
> to
> judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what they would like
> to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT necessarily what a
> sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.
>
> people often have unrealistic expectation of the places that take in the
> unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror stories to go
> around,
> until more folks can step up and share the burden, they perhaps need to
> revise down their own personal standards.
>
> let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to sanctuaries nearby
> where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's talk with people
> who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to care for large
> number of critters, and see what it's like to make the choices needed.
> let's
> ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them, and plush
> surroundings are NOT the standard
>
> MC
> --
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
>
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org
> )
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20

http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties*

Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties!
http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties

Help us spay some kitties!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/30-spays-in-30-days

"Rather than helping, it's easier to point fingers and say "take  them first
as long as you leave me alone".
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread MaryChristine
of course if depends on quality of life, but you also have to have a
realistic definition of what that means. i've found that many people tend to
judge quality of life in human terms, and in light of what they would like
to be able to provide to a housecat--and that is NOT necessarily what a
sanctuary can and even should be able to provide.

people often have unrealistic expectation of the places that take in the
unwanted, and while there are DEFINITELY enough horror stories to go around,
until more folks can step up and share the burden, they perhaps need to
revise down their own personal standards.

let's have a task force of folks who volunteer to go to sanctuaries nearby
where they live, and report back to the rest of us. let's talk with people
who've had to try to make decisions regarding how best to care for large
number of critters, and see what it's like to make the choices needed. let's
ask the cats -- you can tell happy cats when you see them, and plush
surroundings are NOT the standard

MC
-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Kelley Saveika
Wouldn't what depend on quality of life?

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Stray Cat Alliance <
stray_cat_allia...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Wouldn't it depend on quality of life? Any "sanctuary" should be checked
> out prior with a personal visit and some questions.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:09:33 -0400
> > From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> >
> > just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is
> NOT
> > necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
> > generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
> > FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
> > cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV
> after
> > living in a FeLV environment.
> >
> > remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
> > adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
> > willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
> > while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
> > very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
> > unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.
> >
> > folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also,
> to
> > be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two
> viruses,
> > and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean
> you're
> > gonna BE one of the them.
> >
> > which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly
> believe
> > what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry
> it
> > out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
> > town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening,
> and
> > these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.
> >
> > MC
> >
> > --
> > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> > Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> >
> > MaryChristine
> > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (
> www.purebredcats.org)
> > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> _
> Hotmail® goes with you.
>
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20

http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties*

Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties!
http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties

Help us spay some kitties!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/30-spays-in-30-days

"Rather than helping, it's easier to point fingers and say "take  them first
as long as you leave me alone".
___
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

Wouldn't it depend on quality of life? Any "sanctuary" should be checked out 
prior with a personal visit and some questions. 

 




 
> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:09:33 -0400
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is NOT
> necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
> generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
> FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
> cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV after
> living in a FeLV environment.
> 
> remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
> adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
> willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
> while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
> very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
> unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.
> 
> folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also, to
> be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two viruses,
> and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean you're
> gonna BE one of the them.
> 
> which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly believe
> what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry it
> out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
> town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening, and
> these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.
> 
> MC
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Laurieskatz
Agree.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:10 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is NOT
necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV after
living in a FeLV environment.

remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.

folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also, to
be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two viruses,
and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean you're
gonna BE one of the them.

which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly believe
what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry it
out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening, and
these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.

MC

-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread MaryChristine
just to cause more trouble, as i'm so good at doing, not separating is NOT
necessarily the worse thing, if death is the only alternative. FIVs are
generally the healthiest populations at any sanctuary, and they throw off
FeLV at the same or possibly a higher rate than any other
cat--double-positives will often end up testing positive only for FIV after
living in a FeLV environment.

remember that most cats who end up in sanctuary settings are NOT up for
adoption--if they were considered adoptable, and rescues or shelters were
willing to try to find them homes, they wouldn't be going to sanctuaries.
while some sanctuaries do have active adoption programs, many do not, for
very good reasons: they have to spend their time and money taking care of
unwanted, undesirable, unadoptable cats.

folks who are willing to adopt FIVs and FeLVs are far more willing, also, to
be--or equally willing to be--educable about the facts re: the two viruses,
and understand that living with FeLVs in order to live doesn't mean you're
gonna BE one of the them.

which is not a blanket endorsement of the practice, but if we truly believe
what we're saying, and what the research is showing us, we have to carry it
out further--it'd be great if there were an FIV/FeLV sanctuary in every
town, with a separate room for each population, but it ain't happening, and
these cats do NOT deserve to die for lack of space.

MC

-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread CATHERINE DIDONNA
Harrisburg Pa.717 469-2540 Lynn Stitt. Cathy
.
--- On Sat, 5/30/09, MaryChristine  wrote:


From: MaryChristine 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Saturday, May 30, 2009, 9:26 PM


http://www.thebestlittlecathouseinpa.com/

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> Where is The Best Little Cat House in PA?
>
>
> On 05-26, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote: Where are you located? Where is
> > the Sanctuary? The best little cat house in Penn. will take him for
> > free when there is room. Regards. C
> >
>
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>



-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-06-01 Thread Stray Cat Alliance

I wasn't following this string but just so you know, unless things have 
changed...this sanctuary does not separate FeLV positive from FIV positive 
cats. Also, if at all possible, it is best for kitty to live in a home and not 
be exposed to so many other cats with illnesses. He or she will live a lot 
longer.
 
 
> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 21:26:35 -0400
> From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary
> 
> http://www.thebestlittlecathouseinpa.com/
> 
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Lorrie  wrote:
> 
> > Where is The Best Little Cat House in PA?
> >
> >
> > On 05-26, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote: Where are you located? Where is
> > > the Sanctuary? The best little cat house in Penn. will take him for
> > > free when there is room. Regards. C
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
> 
> MaryChristine
> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-05-30 Thread MaryChristine
http://www.thebestlittlecathouseinpa.com/

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> Where is The Best Little Cat House in PA?
>
>
> On 05-26, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote: Where are you located? Where is
> > the Sanctuary? The best little cat house in Penn. will take him for
> > free when there is room. Regards. C
> >
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 
Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] PA Sanctuary

2009-05-29 Thread Lorrie
Where is The Best Little Cat House in PA?


On 05-26, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote: Where are you located? Where is
> the Sanctuary? The best little cat house in Penn. will take him for
> free when there is room. Regards. C
> 

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