[filmscanners] RE: Screen calibration (was: RE: not enough memory?=

2004-07-19 Thread Laurie Solomon
Yes there are a number of tools out there for calibrating and profiling
monitors; but most of them do not work very well on consumer flat screen
monitors; they work best on CRTs.  Similarly, making an accurrate custom
printer profile is not as easy as it may seem.  The programs you mention can
create satisfactory printer profiles if you are not too exacting or too
demanding; but more often than not, users have not been all that satisfied
with the results as compared to the use of canned generic profiles produced
by the printer manufactures or the paper manufacturers.  Many have said that
the additional benefits of using such consumer methods based on scanners are
not worth the time and trouble.  Moreover, scanner based profiling often
meeans that you scanner has to be calibrated and profiles as a spearate
device for the end result to be close to accurate.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Subject: [filmscanners] Screen calibration (was: RE: not enough
> memory?=
>
>
> Hi there is a tool called "Profile Mechanic - Monitor" which can
> calibrate a monitor for 179 USD. Personally I use a  "Colorvision
> Monitor Spyder with OptiCal för PC & Mac"  which is around 300 USD,
> here in Sweden.
>
> Regarding printer profiles there are probably prepared profiles for
> your printer. Making your own profile may not be that hard. There are
> some "el cheapo" tools for that to. You need an Q60 target
> (http://www.targets.coloraid.de), a flatbed scanner and Vuescan Pro.
>
> Check here:
> http://hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc6.htm#topic5
> http://hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc7.htm#topic6
>
> A good program for adjusting digital images is:
> Picture Window Pro, at www.dl-c.com, PC-only.
>
> A certified toolchain is much more expensive.
>
> Regards
>
> Erik
>
> Wednesday 14 July 2004 20.21 skrev Laurie Solomon:
>> First, unless you have a really high end flat panel monitor, costing
>> in the $1000 us range, you will have difficulty calibrating and
>> profileing the monitor display.  Current consumer and prosumer
>> models of flat panel displays tend not to lend themselves to
>> calibrating and profiling with the prosumer monitor calibration and
>> profiling programs and devices on the market today, which work best
>> with CTRs.  The problem is that the color shifts on flat panel
>> displays as one changes one's viewing angle; and the current
>> prosumer calibrating and monitoring programs and devices cannot get
>> an accurrate measure off of them.
>>
>> Second, I am not all that familiar with Photoshop Elements enough to
>> say what it has and can do versus Photoshop; but Photoshop Elements
>> was neither designed nor intended for professional use by
>> photographers or artists.  It was intended to compete with the
>> hobbyist consumer level image editiing programs on the market.  I
>> would assume that it does not have many of the color management
>> features of Photoshop since it was targeted to those who intend to
>> merely edit and print theriown image files for themselves and for
>> distribution via web mostly and via print occassionally to others
>> and not for those who demand accurrate color management between
>> multiple users and systems such as those who produce images for
>> printing on commercial presses or for sale in galleries.
>>
>> Thirdly, generic monitor profiles typically come from the monitor
>> manufacturer and not Adobe; and generic printer profiles usually
>> come from the printer manufacturer and are based on use of their
>> inks and papers only. Custom monitor profiles are generally done
>> either by the user or a custom profile maker for a specific brand
>> and model monitor; but their quality will vary depending on if the
>> monitor is a CRT or a flat panel and will need to be reularly
>> updated as the monitor ages over time if the monitor is a CRT. For
>> printers, custom profiles ordinarily are made professionally by
>> third partys and are based and dependent on the specific paper and
>> ink combinations being used.  Each change in inks (and sometimes ink
>> lot) or media will necessitate its own profile.  ICC profiles are
>> merely made using ICC standards; but they work the same as any other
>> type of profile.
>>
>> Welcome to the wide world of high tech where nothing is simple,
>> nothing of quality is turnkey, and only in the world of advertising
>> hype are things push button automated.  Now for the less demanding
>> who are willing to compromise and accept merely satisfactory quality
>> and color management, some semblance of autopmation and turnkey
>> operation is available; but not for the demanding professional,
>> commercially targeted, or high end operation.  This is why many of
>> the professional high end big operations need to maintain
>> professional technical experts on staff to keep the digital workflow
>> going smoothly and with some efficiency not to mention accurrately.
>> This was also the case in the old analog world once one got into the
>> professional and commercial opera

[filmscanners] RE: Printing and color management

2004-07-19 Thread Laurie Solomon
> Printers and monitors have different "gamuts" that is color ranges
> they can reproduce. Also monitors emit light, while prints reflect
> light. This basic differrence means that it is hard to compare colors
> on screen and paper.

Correct.  Printers and monitors also have different color spaces as well as
ranges and transmissive and reflective qualities; printers use CYMK color
spaces and monitors use RGB color spaces.

> As far as I can understand there are a couple of advantages of using
> managed color for nonprofessionals.
>
> 1) Consistency
> 2) Correct colors in images, not distorted by monitor settings

You might also add that for those who want to share image files with others
(who are on color managed systems using calibrated monitors, it allows
everyone to get the same output - a type of consistency but different than
the sort of consistency one talks about within a specific system where one
is doing one's own printing and not sharing files per se.

> I'm using Picture Window Pro (www.dl-c.com) as image manipulation
> program, which gives me more setting than Adobe Photo Shop Elements.
> In PWP you can assign a proofing profile, so it can simulate what the
> picture will look like when printed. I won't say that this preview is
> entirely correct, but it certainly gives a hint of the cahnges
> introduced when printing. If using "lcms" color engine PWP will also
> be able to show which colors are out of gamut, this option is not
> available with the Windows color engine.

Cannot speak for Photoshop Elements since I use Photoshop CS, but the full
Photoshop does offer all the settings you speak of and also "soft proofing"
which is the name for "a proofing profile, so it can simulate what the
picture will look like when printed."  Photoshop also shows what is "out of
gamut" and is available for windows.  I do not know Picture Window Pro; but
I am sure that there are some less expensive consumer image editing programs
out there which also furnish all or most of the features that you speak of
and do it for windows.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Subject: [filmscanners] Printing and color management
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I just tought about writing down some thoughts about printing and
> color.
>
> Printers and monitors have different "gamuts" that is color ranges
> they can reproduce. Also monitors emit light, while prints reflect
> light. This basic differrence means that it is hard to compare colors
> on screen and paper.
>
> As far as I can understand there are a couple of advantages of using
> managed color for nonprofessionals.
>
> 1) Consistency
> 2) Correct colors in images, not distorted by monitor settings
>
> I'm using Picture Window Pro (www.dl-c.com) as image manipulation
> program, which gives me more setting than Adobe Photo Shop Elements.
> In PWP you can assign a proofing profile, so it can simulate what the
> picture will look like when printed. I won't say that this preview is
> entirely correct, but it certainly gives a hint of the cahnges
> introduced when printing. If using "lcms" color engine PWP will also
> be able to show which colors are out of gamut, this option is not
> available with the Windows color engine.
>
> Here is what I'm doing when printing, on my Canon i9950.
>
> 1) Choose printer setting
> 2) Go into manual
> 3) Leave everything as default (as I use original profiles)
> 4) In PWP:s printer dialog I set the printer profile that came with
> my printer for the paper I'm using.
> 5) Print
>
> This works pretty good for me.
>
> Regards
>
> Erik
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