[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
Hemingway, David J wrote: Jim, There is a local but good size dealer in Cambridge, Ma that has good deals on both components and systems. As they cater to system builders they also have some info on building systems and the differences between the memory types. I know they are saying the delta in price is narrowing. www.pcsforeveryone.com David I suspect the postage costs from Cambridge Mass, USA to Israel (where Alex, the original poster lives) might eat into the savings a bit ;-) Art Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
Thanks David, I realized that. Will check them carefully. Regards, Alex Z -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hemingway, David J Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing Alex, The main reason I passed the URL along was for its tips on building a PC and it's recent comments on the different types of memory. Regards David -Original Message- From: Alex Zabrovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing Oh yeah, indeed. :-) In fact, I found PC accessories and parts local pricing (in Israel) differs from US very slightly making no point to purchase is abroad and taking care of all these hassles related with SH. Regards, Alex Z -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Arthur Entlich Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 11:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing Hemingway, David J wrote: Jim, There is a local but good size dealer in Cambridge, Ma that has good deals on both components and systems. As they cater to system builders they also have some info on building systems and the differences between the memory types. I know they are saying the delta in price is narrowing. www.pcsforeveryone.com David I suspect the postage costs from Cambridge Mass, USA to Israel (where Alex, the original poster lives) might eat into the savings a bit ;-) Art Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
I would go further. It is true that this is not the place to have ongoing, overbearing discussions on the topic, but there are some reasons why the subject could be covered here: - Most of us are interested in the subject at one level or other. - The subject of 'system suitable for image editing' is to some extent exclusive to this kind of group. Specialist PC how-to-do-it groups would not have the same emphasis or even understanding of what is needed/best for imaging. People using their PCs for video, or at the other extreme, for word processing, may have quite different needs. - Given that most of us use computers for a specific purpose rather than being specialists in the things, most of us will be at a lower level of understanding than those on the specialist groups, so the discussion level is more likely to be appropriate to our needs. - We are all affected to some extent by the problem that every time we upgrade our machines the technology has moved on, so there are different questions to ask and different optimal price/performance points. The sort of discussion suggested will help us all to make sensible decisions. - The fact is that by definition we all own a computer which is used for our scanning, thus it is relevant to all of us and essential for all of us. To me this subject is as relevant as lighting or screen adjustment - which are discussed here. - I have looked at some of the computer sites suggested, and none has provided me with as efficient a background as I am sure could be gained on filmscanners if the knowledgeable ones were allowed to speak. Most of the sites tend to be obscure and forget to give the potted summaries (e.g. what is the story with RAM these days and what does it dictate in your purchase decision - in two pages?) that I need since I have not looked at the subject for nearly 2 years. - as always it is a pretty simple matter to delete or ignore these posts if not wanted. There are some very peripheral or detailed subjects that get discussed at enormous lengths on this list sometimes which I am sure are ignored by most subscribers. Meanwhile the very topics that interest me are flowing invisibly backchannel, thus forcing me to ask the same questions of maybe the same people at a later time. Unless Tony has violently objected in the past I for one would like to see such discussion in public so I can learn about this essential aspect of filmscanning. Just another opinion, from someone who doesn't have time to participate in every discussion but reads most of them and learns a lot as a result. Julian At 20:23 14/01/02, you wrote: Although I would agree that this forum is probably not the place to have this discussion publicly, and I also agree that the websites you suggest provide some useful information, I do think that someone wishing to tap into the knowledge base and expertise of the members of this group in regard to computer systems for image editing is being wise, as there are some people here who have extensive knowledge in computer building and have likely suffered some of the pains of making bad component choices, which they can help Alex avid. I would therefore suggest that people wanting to further discuss this matter with Alex, simply bring it into private mail, so Alex can benefit from that knowledge without offending or annoying people who are not interested in this topic. Art Jawed Ashraf wrote: Alex, the nature of your questions shows that you have significant gaps in your understanding of the products available. This list is *not* the place for you to fill in your knowledge. I suggest you spend time reading sites like www.anandtech.com www.tomshardware.com And then use www.deja.com to find newsgroups that are dedicated to the questions you have. Jawed Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
- Original Message - From: Julian Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:48 AM Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing I would go further. It is true that this is not the place to have ongoing, overbearing discussions on the topic, but there are some reasons why the subject could be covered here: - Most of us are interested in the subject at one level or other. I guess so ;o) ... - The subject of 'system suitable for image editing' is to some extent exclusive to this kind of group. Specialist PC how-to-do-it groups would not have the same emphasis or even understanding of what is needed/best for imaging. People using their PCs for video, or at the other extreme, for word processing, may have quite different needs. Absolutely YES ... you are right ! .OMISSIS .. Unless Tony has violently objected in the past I for one would like to see such discussion in public so I can learn about this essential aspect of filmscanning. Just another opinion, from someone who doesn't have time to participate in every discussion but reads most of them and learns a lot as a result. Julian Julian , I absolutely agree with you and I am totally simpathetic with you. Sincerely. Ezio www.lucenti.com e-photography site Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
Thanks Ezio. I understand going with Athlon I'll will have to chose certain motherboard (not all Pentium board will work with it, right ?) Also, it seem to use DDR memory type not being compatible with regular SDRAMs, right ? (so the motherboard supporting the Athlon are intended for DDR memory interfacing, am I wrong ?) BTW, what about cooling ? I've heard AMD should be treated in special way in regard of it since being heated significantly. Many suggest adding additional fan streaming onto the CPU. Is that correct ? Athlon + additional fan solution approaches to comparable performance P4 ... Regards, Alex Z -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ezio c/o TIN Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing Alex ... first of all you will find as many opinion about the best as many users you will contact ;o) ... he he he ! Second ... I have developped my OPTIMAL SYSTEM in the past 12 years of self assembling ... all my friends have systems builded by myself ... and in house I have 3 systems interconnected (mainly used by kids to play video games and myself to play with digital imaging and digital audio). 1. Memory. I understand this is the most important resource for image processing. I'm planning to start from 512 MB Well done ! ... that is barely enough ... for scanning purposes . In facts 2700dpi from a film are almost 30MB ... multiplied many times (as Photoshop does ... ) + other system stuff = 256 MB + some room for the ease . 2. Processor. I think I would opt for something like P4 1.6-1.7 GHz which sounds to be enough given there will be no serious constraints on the memory amount. What about AMD Ahtlon ? I strongly push for AMD processors ... I have those ONLY at home (3 systems) and no problems nor with Photoshop and neither with Wavelab by Steinberg neither with the most demanding and intriguing video games very cheap , very fast , very powerful and very stable ON APPRPRIATE MOTHERBOARD !!! be careful only few vendors of MB are ... STABLE ... I suggest ASUS A7V266 coupled with AMD 1.7GHz (PIII clone and more) 3. As about HDD I think there is no too much choices to contemplate about. The bigger, faster and reliable is better. Depends on the local market offerings. BTW, should I pay more for SCSI interface ? What is RAID ? Any opinions about it ? SCSI U-160 for SURE ... and lately there are on eBay good auctions for SCSI RAID boards available for 50$ (I've bought a couple of them!!! ... MYLEX ACCELERAID 250 ) SCSI because it's FASTER and working with many I/O at the same time IT IS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE as you think ... I have already bought (for my new system ) 4 x IBM SCSI-3 18GB 1rpm 4MB cache at 90$ EACH !!! under IBM warranty (3 years) sealed packs on eBay of course ! IDE is good for CD-R ... quite good ... because you will have troubles to find CD-Rs SCSI these days ... and in this case the SCSI devices are owfully more expensive than IDE ... so TAKE IDE for SLOW devices to SAVE on the total system budget. 4. Display card. Which one would you recommend ? (not necessarily to be the most expensive though...) Take a GTS2 nVidia today available at less than 150$ (64MB DDR) ... I use an ELSA 64MB DDR GTS2 since 2 years ago and today are available GTS3 but they cost 500$ list and 300$ on eBay ... abd such a power is required by gaming only not by Photoshop ! 5. CD-RW. Are there DVD-RW available for PC installation ? Are they worth the expense ? I use 2 x MITSUMI 8x4x24 2 years old ... I have burnt more than 1,000 CD-Rs flawless (I have told you I am playing with music ! ... ) they costed 2 years ago 120$ each and are good as the much more expensive Plextor , TDK or other ! ... CD-Rs are required for archiving purposes and almost compulsory . I suggest MITSUMI (the new models ) on eBay (they have a lousy distribution and thus are easier and cheaper to find on eBay ) many other available , but DO NOT BUDGET more than 150$ each ... they are just like those expensive. Put them IDE not to slow down your SCSI chain and not to spend a fortune ! SCSI board CHEAP ! to attach the scanners ... must be added. 2904 or similar by ADAPTEC (I have a 2940 I have paid 150$ 3 years ago ... but there are available 2940UW2 on eBay for less than 200$. This is almost the system I would build for a friend I cannot say it is the fastest , but I am almost sure it is among the best as price/performance ratio. Sincerely. Ezio www.lucenti.com e-photography site ICQ: 139507382 - Original Message - From: Alex Zabrovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
Hi Alex , ... first of all ... the suffix IL is for wich Country ? ... I am not able to guess ... :o) ... Second ... going in details ... 1) I understand going with Athlon I'll will have to chose certain motherboard (not all Pentium board will work with it, right ?) You should start to go to http://www.asus.co.tw and study the different MB offered . In facts , not only they are different for Intel processors and for AMD proc. , but ALSO different for different form-factory in the same processor belonging to the same vendor ... so be careful ... the MB is the basement for the performances of your system ... a clugg or a bottle neck in the MB and expensive parts are simply USELESS or not exploited at the max they can give . 2) Also, it seem to use DDR memory type not being compatible with regular SDRAMs, right ? (so the motherboard supporting the Athlon are intended for DDR memory interfacing, am I wrong ?) DDR is extremely fast but also expensive so ordinarily it's used for video cards memory. As far as I know ... the simms of RAM are called SDRAM and other names ... and are quite cheap ... I am planning to buy for the system I am assemblying right now ... I am planning to use 2 x 512 ''chocolate sticks'' for the cost of 106 € (Euro) each ... or 85$ (more or less) . What you have to check is to use 133MHz memory ... same price of 100MHz memory but faster and newer so available for larger chunks. Today my system has (ASUS K7V motherboard with AThlon 800MHz SLOT A form fatory) 256 MB of 133MHz RAM 2 x 128 The number of slots is also fixing the max upgradeability of the board ... so the A7V266 has 3 slots for memory boards and can reach the 3GB of RAM being available in chuncks of 1GB MAX + having the microcode able to manage that . 3) BTW, what about cooling ? I've heard AMD should be treated in special way in regard of it since being heated significantly. Many suggest adding additional fan streaming onto the CPU. Is that correct ? Really ? .. I have no need of extra fans (for CPU seen that ATHLON SLOT A is a small book comprehensive of L2 CACHE and fans etc. etc. ... also ... Pentium IV has got owful problems of heating seen the frequency of clock used and the extreme push it has been used to counter the performances problems it has so be careful ... if you will ever go P IV (with the today available technology) you must be sure of having a good power and good set of fans but remember you are going to use a 64 bit architecture with a 32bit operating system (either W98 either NT are 32bit ... and the available Linux is ALSO 32bit !) The AMD XP (and so for the older Athlon) have a different architecture i.e. 32bit and so better performing with O.S. at 32bit My wife's system is on AMD Duron (800MHz) ... so big and silent fan sealed and clamped on the CPU ... no probs so far ... I am not sure of carrying the absolute true ... but I am pretty sure of being experienced since 22 years ago in this world ... being so far employed in a MAJOR (BLUE ;o) ) computer company and professionally dealing with XL and XXL Unix systems . Sincerely. Ezio www.lucenti.com e-photography site Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
Oh sorry, you're right indeed. I apologize for clattering the bandwidth... and thanks for the links. Regards, Alex Z -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jawed Ashraf Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 5:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing Alex, the nature of your questions shows that you have significant gaps in your understanding of the products available. This list is *not* the place for you to fill in your knowledge. I suggest you spend time reading sites like www.anandtech.com www.tomshardware.com And then use www.deja.com to find newsgroups that are dedicated to the questions you have. Jawed -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex Zabrovsky Sent: 13 January 2002 11:38 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing Thanks Ezio. I understand going with Athlon I'll will have to chose certain motherboard (not all Pentium board will work with it, right ?) Also, it seem to use DDR memory type not being compatible with regular SDRAMs, right ? (so the motherboard supporting the Athlon are intended for DDR memory interfacing, am I wrong ?) BTW, what about cooling ? I've heard AMD should be treated in special way in regard of it since being heated significantly. Many suggest adding additional fan streaming onto the CPU. Is that correct ? Athlon + additional fan solution approaches to comparable performance P4 ... Regards, Alex Z Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
I for one find this thread fascinating, Jawed, and it is v. close to, if 'off' topic, since my Epson 2450 locks up my 1Ghz chip, 1/2 Gbyte memory computer while it's scanning. But what do I know, I'm the dummy who posted a question about printing here which you were all kind enough to ignore rather than laughing at me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jawed Ashraf Sent: 13 January 2002 15:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing Alex, the nature of your questions shows that you have significant gaps in your understanding of the products available. This list is *not* the place for you to fill in your knowledge. I suggest you spend time reading sites like www.anandtech.com www.tomshardware.com And then use www.deja.com to find newsgroups that are dedicated to the questions you have. Jawed Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
Jim, There is a local but good size dealer in Cambridge, Ma that has good deals on both components and systems. As they cater to system builders they also have some info on building systems and the differences between the memory types. I know they are saying the delta in price is narrowing. www.pcsforeveryone.com David -Original Message- From: Jim Snyder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 12:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing - Original Message - From: Alex Zabrovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all. I'm considering constructing myself the PC system (have previous experience doing that about 5 years ago though), however, it seems I'm out of date of the PC technology being confused by the choices of the parts. I rely on the List helping me out to clarify that and to understand what really I need. 1. Memory. I understand this is the most important resource for image processing. I'm planning to start from 512 MB right from the beginning, however the DRAM types seem to be overwhelming: SDRAM, DDR, RDRAM, DDR ECC (not talking about EDO which are probably out of questions though). I'm familiar with SDRAM technology, but others sounds to be quite new and unknown (for me, at least). I paid attention the DDR and RDRAM types are considerably more expensive then SDRAM. The question is whether this is really justified ? It can be if you choose a fast motherboard to match. DDR-SDRAm matched with say an EPoX 8KHA+ is inexpensive and will do plenty of speed. What is the benefits of those DDR and RDRAM against SDRAM ? About 5% speed increase or so. Will I gain real life performance with those new types compared to SDRAM ? If carefully matched with parts that can use the performance, yes. Finally, your opinion about DDR/RDRAM price/performance compared to SDRAM (let's say SDRAM 133 MHz) ? RDRAM is still the price leader with less of a speed bump to justify the cost. When I bought my DDR-SDRAM, the SDRAAM was only pennies less. Prices are on the way back up since the end of November. 2. Processor. I think I would opt for something like P4 1.6-1.7 GHz which sounds to be enough given there will be no serious constraints on the memory amount. What about AMD Ahtlon ? Bang for the buck would be an Athlon 1800+. If money is no object, then go for the Athlon 2000+. If the Intel name means something special to you, then go for the 1.4 mHz PIII. The lastest 0.13 die P4 is worth looking at if you can spit gold. 3. As about HDD I think there is no too much choices to contemplate about. The bigger, faster and reliable is better. Depends on the local market offerings. BTW, should I pay more for SCSI interface ? Only if you are doing this as a business and can write off the cost. IDE drives have caught up and passed most SCSI drives in general use. The 10,000 and 15,000 rpm SCSI drives still have an edge for large files that make them worth considering. Large capacity drives from Maxtor, Seagate, and Western Digital make IDE worth checking out. Check out the Western Digital WD1200SE as an example. What is RAID ? Any opinions about it ? RAID is a redundant array of inexpensive discs, or the combining of smaller drives to act like either one larger drive, or mirrors of the smaller drives. For home use, not worth the trouble and cost. 4. Display card. Which one would you recommend ? (not necessarily to be the most expensive though...) Go with the Matrox G550 series cards for about $129 at some places. The 360 mHz RAMDAC in these cardss give the best 2D imaging on the consumer market. The older G450 is just as good, but the same price at most places. ALso has excellent 2nd monitor connectivity for, say, a proofing monitor, or menus monitor. 5. CD-RW. Are there DVD-RW available for PC installation ? Drives exist with DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW that are worth the expense if you are archiving large numbers of images. Check out Philips' DVD+RW offering, or HP's. Are they worth the expense ? YMMV. Jim Snyder Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
I built the PC I use to scan and run Photoshop. It's a dual PIII 866 with 1.25G, two 18G SCSI drives and so forth running Win2K. I don't have experience with faster P4's but I really like dual processors and SCSI. Why? Because I'm writing this email while my scanner is going and both processors are at 65% or so. Dual PIII motherboards are cheap and PIII 1G processors only cost $135 or so. You can build a dual AMD machine also but I have my doubts about the stability. http://www.2cpu.com has some good info. As for RAM, they type you need will pretty much be dictated by the processor and motherboard you choose. All PIII's use SDRAM, most P4's use RDRAM though some now use SDRAM (SDRAM is cheaper) and AMD's use DDR. I doubt the type of RAM will have as much of an effect on system performance as the type of processor and the amount of RAM. One problem with P4's and RDRAM is that the memory has to be installed in matched pairs. For example, you'll need 2 256MB sticks and 2 512MB sticks if you want 1.5G or RAM. SDRAM can be mixed in any combination. Hard drive: As I said I have SCSI which is nice but it's more money. SCSI offloads the IO processing from the CPU which is nice as it makes the machine more responsive. However, the new ATA100 7200rpm IDE drives are nice and perform very well. I'll let someone else discuss the benefits of RAID. Paul Wilson PS. Get a good case. The case will probably outlast the rest of the components and a good one will make installation much easier. I got one of these: http://www.antec-inc.com/product/cases/sohoser.html -Original Message- From: Alex Zabrovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] Building PC system for image editing Hi all. Preparing to acquire IV ED within few weeks I've started to consider the PC system to handle post-processing and image achivating. Currently my regular system is quite old Compaq laptop running on 333 MHz Celeron + 192 MB memory. I realize that it will be probably quite hard - nearly impossible to run image editing software on 35 MB files expecting for reasonable performance from that machine, however laptop can still be used as scanner's host for download. I'm considering constructing myself the PC system (have previous experience doing that about 5 years ago though), however, it seems I'm out of date of the PC technology being confused by the choices of the parts. I rely on the List helping me out to clarify that and to understand what really I need. 1. Memory. I understand this is the most important resource for image processing. I'm planning to start from 512 MB right from the beginning, however the DRAM types seem to be overwhelming: SDRAM, DDR, RDRAM, DDR ECC (not talking about EDO which are probably out of questions though). I'm familiar with SDRAM technology, but others sounds to be quite new and unknown (for me, at least). I paid attention the DDR and RDRAM types are considerably more expensive then SDRAM. The question is whether this is really justified ? What is the benefits of those DDR and RDRAM against SDRAM ? Will I gain real life performance with those new types compared to SDRAM ? Finally, your opinion about DDR/RDRAM price/performance compared to SDRAM (let's say SDRAM 133 MHz) ? 2. Processor. I think I would opt for something like P4 1.6-1.7 GHz which sounds to be enough given there will be no serious constraints on the memory amount. What about AMD Ahtlon ? 3. As about HDD I think there is no too much choices to contemplate about. The bigger, faster and reliable is better. Depends on the local market offerings. BTW, should I pay more for SCSI interface ? What is RAID ? Any opinions about it ? 4. Display card. Which one would you recommend ? (not necessarily to be the most expensive though...) 5. CD-RW. Are there DVD-RW available for PC installation ? Are they worth the expense ? Well, other parts are non-brainers which doesn't really relates to image processing performance, so I'll not clatter the query by those. Would really appreciate any responses with clarifications. Links to the helpful sites are welcome as well. Regards, Alex Z -- -- Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
Alex ... first of all you will find as many opinion about the best as many users you will contact ;o) ... he he he ! Second ... I have developped my OPTIMAL SYSTEM in the past 12 years of self assembling ... all my friends have systems builded by myself ... and in house I have 3 systems interconnected (mainly used by kids to play video games and myself to play with digital imaging and digital audio). 1. Memory. I understand this is the most important resource for image processing. I'm planning to start from 512 MB Well done ! ... that is barely enough ... for scanning purposes . In facts 2700dpi from a film are almost 30MB ... multiplied many times (as Photoshop does ... ) + other system stuff = 256 MB + some room for the ease . 2. Processor. I think I would opt for something like P4 1.6-1.7 GHz which sounds to be enough given there will be no serious constraints on the memory amount. What about AMD Ahtlon ? I strongly push for AMD processors ... I have those ONLY at home (3 systems) and no problems nor with Photoshop and neither with Wavelab by Steinberg neither with the most demanding and intriguing video games very cheap , very fast , very powerful and very stable ON APPRPRIATE MOTHERBOARD !!! be careful only few vendors of MB are ... STABLE ... I suggest ASUS A7V266 coupled with AMD 1.7GHz (PIII clone and more) 3. As about HDD I think there is no too much choices to contemplate about. The bigger, faster and reliable is better. Depends on the local market offerings. BTW, should I pay more for SCSI interface ? What is RAID ? Any opinions about it ? SCSI U-160 for SURE ... and lately there are on eBay good auctions for SCSI RAID boards available for 50$ (I've bought a couple of them!!! ... MYLEX ACCELERAID 250 ) SCSI because it's FASTER and working with many I/O at the same time IT IS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE as you think ... I have already bought (for my new system ) 4 x IBM SCSI-3 18GB 1rpm 4MB cache at 90$ EACH !!! under IBM warranty (3 years) sealed packs on eBay of course ! IDE is good for CD-R ... quite good ... because you will have troubles to find CD-Rs SCSI these days ... and in this case the SCSI devices are owfully more expensive than IDE ... so TAKE IDE for SLOW devices to SAVE on the total system budget. 4. Display card. Which one would you recommend ? (not necessarily to be the most expensive though...) Take a GTS2 nVidia today available at less than 150$ (64MB DDR) ... I use an ELSA 64MB DDR GTS2 since 2 years ago and today are available GTS3 but they cost 500$ list and 300$ on eBay ... abd such a power is required by gaming only not by Photoshop ! 5. CD-RW. Are there DVD-RW available for PC installation ? Are they worth the expense ? I use 2 x MITSUMI 8x4x24 2 years old ... I have burnt more than 1,000 CD-Rs flawless (I have told you I am playing with music ! ... ) they costed 2 years ago 120$ each and are good as the much more expensive Plextor , TDK or other ! ... CD-Rs are required for archiving purposes and almost compulsory . I suggest MITSUMI (the new models ) on eBay (they have a lousy distribution and thus are easier and cheaper to find on eBay ) many other available , but DO NOT BUDGET more than 150$ each ... they are just like those expensive. Put them IDE not to slow down your SCSI chain and not to spend a fortune ! SCSI board CHEAP ! to attach the scanners ... must be added. 2904 or similar by ADAPTEC (I have a 2940 I have paid 150$ 3 years ago ... but there are available 2940UW2 on eBay for less than 200$. This is almost the system I would build for a friend I cannot say it is the fastest , but I am almost sure it is among the best as price/performance ratio. Sincerely. Ezio www.lucenti.com e-photography site ICQ: 139507382 - Original Message - From: Alex Zabrovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
I have forgot ! ... OPERATING SYSTEM = WINDOWS 98 SE No other choices to avoid headaches with drivers ! Sincerely. Ezio www.lucenti.com e-photography site ICQ: 139507382 - Original Message - From: Ezio c/o TIN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:01 AM Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing Alex ... first of all you will find as many opinion about the best as many users you will contact ;o) ... he he he ! Second ... I have developped my OPTIMAL SYSTEM in the past 12 years of self assembling ... all my friends have systems builded by myself ... and in house I have 3 systems interconnected (mainly used by kids to play video games and myself to play with digital imaging and digital audio). 1. Memory. I understand this is the most important resource for image processing. I'm planning to start from 512 MB Well done ! ... that is barely enough ... for scanning purposes . In facts 2700dpi from a film are almost 30MB ... multiplied many times (as Photoshop does ... ) + other system stuff = 256 MB + some room for the ease . 2. Processor. I think I would opt for something like P4 1.6-1.7 GHz which sounds to be enough given there will be no serious constraints on the memory amount. What about AMD Ahtlon ? I strongly push for AMD processors ... I have those ONLY at home (3 systems) and no problems nor with Photoshop and neither with Wavelab by Steinberg neither with the most demanding and intriguing video games very cheap , very fast , very powerful and very stable ON APPRPRIATE MOTHERBOARD !!! be careful only few vendors of MB are ... STABLE ... I suggest ASUS A7V266 coupled with AMD 1.7GHz (PIII clone and more) 3. As about HDD I think there is no too much choices to contemplate about. The bigger, faster and reliable is better. Depends on the local market offerings. BTW, should I pay more for SCSI interface ? What is RAID ? Any opinions about it ? SCSI U-160 for SURE ... and lately there are on eBay good auctions for SCSI RAID boards available for 50$ (I've bought a couple of them!!! ... MYLEX ACCELERAID 250 ) SCSI because it's FASTER and working with many I/O at the same time IT IS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE as you think ... I have already bought (for my new system ) 4 x IBM SCSI-3 18GB 1rpm 4MB cache at 90$ EACH !!! under IBM warranty (3 years) sealed packs on eBay of course ! IDE is good for CD-R ... quite good ... because you will have troubles to find CD-Rs SCSI these days ... and in this case the SCSI devices are owfully more expensive than IDE ... so TAKE IDE for SLOW devices to SAVE on the total system budget. 4. Display card. Which one would you recommend ? (not necessarily to be the most expensive though...) Take a GTS2 nVidia today available at less than 150$ (64MB DDR) ... I use an ELSA 64MB DDR GTS2 since 2 years ago and today are available GTS3 but they cost 500$ list and 300$ on eBay ... abd such a power is required by gaming only not by Photoshop ! 5. CD-RW. Are there DVD-RW available for PC installation ? Are they worth the expense ? I use 2 x MITSUMI 8x4x24 2 years old ... I have burnt more than 1,000 CD-Rs flawless (I have told you I am playing with music ! ... ) they costed 2 years ago 120$ each and are good as the much more expensive Plextor , TDK or other ! ... CD-Rs are required for archiving purposes and almost compulsory . I suggest MITSUMI (the new models ) on eBay (they have a lousy distribution and thus are easier and cheaper to find on eBay ) many other available , but DO NOT BUDGET more than 150$ each ... they are just like those expensive. Put them IDE not to slow down your SCSI chain and not to spend a fortune ! SCSI board CHEAP ! to attach the scanners ... must be added. 2904 or similar by ADAPTEC (I have a 2940 I have paid 150$ 3 years ago ... but there are available 2940UW2 on eBay for less than 200$. This is almost the system I would build for a friend I cannot say it is the fastest , but I am almost sure it is among the best as price/performance ratio. Sincerely. Ezio www.lucenti.com e-photography site ICQ: 139507382 - Original Message - From: Alex Zabrovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
Have you considered the Apple route at all? Richard Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing
- Original Message - From: Alex Zabrovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all. I'm considering constructing myself the PC system (have previous experience doing that about 5 years ago though), however, it seems I'm out of date of the PC technology being confused by the choices of the parts. I rely on the List helping me out to clarify that and to understand what really I need. 1. Memory. I understand this is the most important resource for image processing. I'm planning to start from 512 MB right from the beginning, however the DRAM types seem to be overwhelming: SDRAM, DDR, RDRAM, DDR ECC (not talking about EDO which are probably out of questions though). I'm familiar with SDRAM technology, but others sounds to be quite new and unknown (for me, at least). I paid attention the DDR and RDRAM types are considerably more expensive then SDRAM. The question is whether this is really justified ? It can be if you choose a fast motherboard to match. DDR-SDRAm matched with say an EPoX 8KHA+ is inexpensive and will do plenty of speed. What is the benefits of those DDR and RDRAM against SDRAM ? About 5% speed increase or so. Will I gain real life performance with those new types compared to SDRAM ? If carefully matched with parts that can use the performance, yes. Finally, your opinion about DDR/RDRAM price/performance compared to SDRAM (let's say SDRAM 133 MHz) ? RDRAM is still the price leader with less of a speed bump to justify the cost. When I bought my DDR-SDRAM, the SDRAAM was only pennies less. Prices are on the way back up since the end of November. 2. Processor. I think I would opt for something like P4 1.6-1.7 GHz which sounds to be enough given there will be no serious constraints on the memory amount. What about AMD Ahtlon ? Bang for the buck would be an Athlon 1800+. If money is no object, then go for the Athlon 2000+. If the Intel name means something special to you, then go for the 1.4 mHz PIII. The lastest 0.13 die P4 is worth looking at if you can spit gold. 3. As about HDD I think there is no too much choices to contemplate about. The bigger, faster and reliable is better. Depends on the local market offerings. BTW, should I pay more for SCSI interface ? Only if you are doing this as a business and can write off the cost. IDE drives have caught up and passed most SCSI drives in general use. The 10,000 and 15,000 rpm SCSI drives still have an edge for large files that make them worth considering. Large capacity drives from Maxtor, Seagate, and Western Digital make IDE worth checking out. Check out the Western Digital WD1200SE as an example. What is RAID ? Any opinions about it ? RAID is a redundant array of inexpensive discs, or the combining of smaller drives to act like either one larger drive, or mirrors of the smaller drives. For home use, not worth the trouble and cost. 4. Display card. Which one would you recommend ? (not necessarily to be the most expensive though...) Go with the Matrox G550 series cards for about $129 at some places. The 360 mHz RAMDAC in these cardss give the best 2D imaging on the consumer market. The older G450 is just as good, but the same price at most places. ALso has excellent 2nd monitor connectivity for, say, a proofing monitor, or menus monitor. 5. CD-RW. Are there DVD-RW available for PC installation ? Drives exist with DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW that are worth the expense if you are archiving large numbers of images. Check out Philips' DVD+RW offering, or HP's. Are they worth the expense ? YMMV. Jim Snyder Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
Ezio's other advice was good. However, I have to disagree here. Win 98 and ME are utter garbage. Win 2000 or XP are vastly better and are real 32-bit, protected memory, multi-tasking operating systems and are vastly more stable than 98 or ME. If drivers don't exist for a piece of hardware and Win 2000, don't use the hardware. The manufacturer isn't providing good support if they haven't come up with drivers yet. Photoshop will be vastly more stable under 2000. Paul Wilson -Original Message- From: Ezio c/o TIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing I have forgot ! ... OPERATING SYSTEM = WINDOWS 98 SE No other choices to avoid headaches with drivers ! Sincerely. Ezio Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Building PC system for image editing
No Richard. I'm aware about Macs, however, their market is very narrow here in Israel making them significantly more expensive then comparable PC and there will be additional hassles of figuring out sotware for them. Regards, Alex Z -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Building PC system for image editing Have you considered the Apple route at all? Richard Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
