[filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile builder

2002-08-16 Thread Paul D. DeRocco

> From: michael shaffer
>
>   What do you mean by "intall it"?

By "install", I mean right-click on it and select "Install". This lists it
in the registry somewhere, for what purpose I don't know. Actually, I think
it may also copy it to the built-in profiles folder, if it's in a different
folder.

>   I didn't know that the Nikon software allowed for conversions(?)  You
> should be able to embed the profile by copying the ICM to the
> proper Windows
> folder ... opening the image file with PS, and assigning the preferred
> profile ... subsequently "saving as" will prompt you for embedding the
> profile.

The previous poster was talking about the standalone NikonScan, which I've
never tried, but since it allows you to specify what color space you want
your file in, a conversion is taking place from the scanner's device color
space (i.e., the raw numbers from the A/D). I'm sure that this conversion is
done in the Windows ICM engine, but it's requested by the scanner software.
If it were possible to specify the scanner's device profile as the
destination, then the conversion would be a null operation.

>   I am missing your "purpose" in doing this.  Please explain ...

Well, it wasn't my idea, but the result would be a file that had the raw
numbers from the A/D. That seemed to be what the previous poster wanted.

--

Ciao,   Paul D. DeRocco
Paulmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile builder

2002-08-16 Thread michael shaffer

Paul D. writes ...

> I wonder if NikonScan will let you embed the device profile
> if you copy the device profile into the Windows profile
> folder and install it.

  What do you mean by "intall it"?

> "Converting" to the device profile is a null operation,
> but it's possible that NikonScan won't notice,
> and will do the useless math anyway. Or does it refuse to
> convert to any profile that's marked as a device profile?

  I didn't know that the Nikon software allowed for conversions(?)  You
should be able to embed the profile by copying the ICM to the proper Windows
folder ... opening the image file with PS, and assigning the preferred
profile ... subsequently "saving as" will prompt you for embedding the
profile.

  I am missing your "purpose" in doing this.  Please explain ...

cheerios ... shAf  :o)
Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland
www.micro-investigations.com (in progress)


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[filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile builder

2002-08-14 Thread michael shaffer

Tony Terlecki writes ...

> Nikon doesn't have proper ICC colour management in its scanning
> software so any profile you make will have to be applied
> afterwards in Photoshop or another ICC compliant program.
> ...

  This is somewhat misleading.  The standalone Nikonscan software will
properly convert and embed a editing profile (e.g., AdobeRGB, Colormatch),
but not the device profile.  The twain software will properly convert to the
preferred color space but will not embed (... no twain scanning interface to
PS will embed ... the proper profile will have to be assigned by PS).  This
is the way Nikon makes CM work ... the only problem I have with the Nikon
software are the device profiles themselves.

  I have seen the "shadows" problem with Nikonscan, and I do believe it has
something to do with the device CLUT profiles.  I have also seen
posterization in other subtle gradients like skin tones, which disappeared
when I turned NS CM off.  I don't know if the original author has tried
turning CM off, but I suggest he/she try it and move to a 3rd party profiler
... or better yet ...

  After playing with Vuescan's raw files and the color capacity of my
LS-2000, I'm quite satisfied with the color accuracy of Vuescan and
embedding highbits into Ektaspace RGB.

cheerios ... shAf  :o)
Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland
www.micro-investigations.com (in progress)


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[filmscanners] Re: Scanner profile builder

2002-08-12 Thread Julian Vrieslander

On 8/12/02 10:16 PM, "Tony Terlecki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Firstly any scanner profiling software will probably produce a similar
> result - basically they all function by scanning an IT8 target and build a
> profile from that. I have done this with EZColor and the results are an
> improvement over what I can get with the NikonScan software.

Doesn't the Nikon Scan software install scanner profiles?  On my system (Mac
OS X), I have a bunch of files with names like

NKLS4000LS40_*.icm

I have read about workflows where you scan with Nikon Color Management
turned off, import the scans into Photoshop, and then assign one of the
Nikon profiles to the image.  I think I tried this out once, but now I am
mostly using VueScan, which has its own built-in profiles for supported
scanners.

If you build your own scanner profile, is it likely to be better than the
ones provided by Nikon?

--
Julian Vrieslander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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[filmscanners] Re: Scanner profile builder

2002-08-12 Thread Tony Terlecki

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 05:35:39PM +0200, Alex Zabrovsky wrote:
> Has anybody have a chance to try Kodak's COLORFLOW ICC color profiles
> builder software to calibrate his scanners ? (especially would be interested
> in IV ED calibration experience).
> I found quite rave review of this thing from Bruce Fraser using it on
> LS-4000. According to him it would noticeably improve shadow rendering
> performance opening up considerably (Nikon's CMS is disabled of course).
>

Are you referrring here to Bruce's reveiew of the LS4000?

Firstly any scanner profiling software will probably produce a similar
result - basically they all function by scanning an IT8 target and build a
profile from that. I have done this with EZColor and the results are an
improvement over what I can get with the NikonScan software. Colour accuracy
is the main goal of profiling, if shadow detail is improved it *may* be a
bonus - it may also be a shortcoming.

I think shadow detail from any of these packages is far from ideal, and
can easily be improved with a simple curves adjustment after the fact if
you think the image requires it. The detail is usually there in the raw scan,
just not usually brought out sufficiently well by the profile.

Bruce mentions that the Imacon produces better shadow detail than the
LS4000. That may be so but his examples were very poor representations of
what he was trying to convey. The Imacon image has a very compressed tonal
scale which I presume was necessary to raise the lower tones sufficiently
high enough to present more shadow detail. I bet a quick curves manipuation
on the LS4000 image could produce a similar result because it is capable of
good shadow detail. Many people would manipuate shadow areas of an image
differently to prevent tonal compression in the mid & high tones (which
often results in washed out colours).

In summary I would say that profiling software is useful to get better colour
accuracy from you scanner. Shadow detail is better served by making your own
custom curves for post processing or by manipulating images on an individual
basis according to your needs.

--
Tony Terlecki
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Running Debian/GNU 3.0 Linux


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[filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile

2002-04-25 Thread Laurie Solomon

>In Photoshop I use Photoshop's own CM engine.

Then when using Photoshop as the destination for your scanned files you
should not be using any other engine and should have them turned off (this
includes the scanner driver/software color management engine and the
operating system's color management engine).  Thus all color management of
those images would be done by Photoshop and nowhere else.  Other
colormanagement aware applications should recognize and use the embedded
profiles in the Photoshop exported or outputted files; those applications
which are not color management aware will not recognize said embedded
profiles and will display the file in whatever there native color space is
which may very well be different and appear so.  Similarly, under this
senario, the scanner driver/program preview of the scan will not be
necessarily the same as that displayed in Photoshop since the
colormanagement will come after the scan has been done and exported to
Photoshop, UNLESS you specifiy the scanner's color profile in Photoshop as
Photoshop's working space (or you choose to do a soft proof using the
scanner profile as your soft proofing profile, which in my oipinion is silly
since the scanner product is not the final version that one would want to
proof.

>I was told I will have to Assign Profile with the scanner's calibrated
>profile to the image brought into the Photoshop to do the thing.

I am unclear as to what you mean by "to do the thing."  What thing?  I would
say in general that with respect to the scanner, all you really should be
concerned with is that it is calibrated which it does typically
automatically using an internal calibration strip in most cases and not with
the color space that it uses for its files if you are exporting it to
another program for color management.  Calibration and color management are
two spearate and different although related activities; the former does not
utilize profiles while the latter does; the former is geared to
standardizing the scanner output so as to produce consistency between scans
while the later is aimed at defineing color spaces so as to produce a common
language which will enable those spaces to be translated from one device to
another device with as much fedelity as possible.  If the devices are
inconsistent or uncalibrated, it will render any color management
impossible; but if they are calibrated, it does not necessarily mean that
they will be color manageable.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex Zabrovsky
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile


In Photoshop I use Photoshop's own CM engine.
I was told I will have to Assign Profile with the scanner's calibrated
profile to the image brought into the Photoshop to do the thing.

Regards,
Alex Z

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Laurie Solomon
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile


>The same for Photoshop. I'll work in it acquiring the scans by calling
> NikonScan as TWAIN.
> The Photoshop is normally configured for Adobe RGB working
> space, how to
> tell him to treat the image using custom scanner's profile ?
> (Or I only have
> to tell NikonScan that, and the Photoshop will pick the
> processed image
> already ?)
First, it depends on which color management engine you are using - the os's
engine or Photoshop's engine.  Second if you use the Photoshop engine, you
can select the scanner's custom profile as the Photoshop workingspace which
will cause Photoshop to operate on the same working space as the scanner's
profile defines.  This should result in the scanner output and the photoshop
version being the same unless you fiddle with some other contols related to
the scanner output in the scanner's driver or application.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex Zabrovsky
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 9:41 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [filmscanners] Scanner profile
>
>
> Once I'll have scanner profile generated, how can I tell the
> NikonScan to
> use it instead of his own CMS ?
>
>
> Regards,
> Alex Z
>
> --
> --
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> 'unsubscribe filmscanners'
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[filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile

2002-04-25 Thread Alex Zabrovsky

In Photoshop I use Photoshop's own CM engine.
I was told I will have to Assign Profile with the scanner's calibrated
profile to the image brought into the Photoshop to do the thing.

Regards,
Alex Z

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Laurie Solomon
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Scanner profile


>The same for Photoshop. I'll work in it acquiring the scans by calling
> NikonScan as TWAIN.
> The Photoshop is normally configured for Adobe RGB working
> space, how to
> tell him to treat the image using custom scanner's profile ?
> (Or I only have
> to tell NikonScan that, and the Photoshop will pick the
> processed image
> already ?)
First, it depends on which color management engine you are using - the os's
engine or Photoshop's engine.  Second if you use the Photoshop engine, you
can select the scanner's custom profile as the Photoshop workingspace which
will cause Photoshop to operate on the same working space as the scanner's
profile defines.  This should result in the scanner output and the photoshop
version being the same unless you fiddle with some other contols related to
the scanner output in the scanner's driver or application.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex Zabrovsky
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 9:41 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [filmscanners] Scanner profile
>
>
> Once I'll have scanner profile generated, how can I tell the
> NikonScan to
> use it instead of his own CMS ?
>
>
> Regards,
> Alex Z
>
> --
> --
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> 'unsubscribe filmscanners'
> or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the
> message title or body
>



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