[filmscanners] Re: Colour fringing
Aha and thanks - a rational explanation. I usually scan negatives, occasionally old slides, and never prints. I have only seen the fringing on slides. My machine is old (an S10), but I do not intend to upgrade until a significantly faster scanner appears. The S10 is good enough for my non-critical needs. See http://clive.moss.net/ProvenceHome.htm for a collection that was all scnned on the S10 using Vuescan and batch fixed with ThumbsPlus -- I was too lazt too hand tweak all the images! -- clive moss --- Arthur Entlich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The reason this process is supposed to fix it is that the top and > bottom > portions of the scanner mechanism get out of synch and this process > (including the cycling through the setting) realigns them. __ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Colour fringing
Sorry about the confusion, I added that note about the Minolta after I wrote the original message, so things got a bit befuddled. The last paragraph refers to the HP S-20, not the Minolta Dual II. The Dual II is a "basic" slide and neg scanner, no reflective, and the optical path seems to be that of most film scanners. The problems I referred to with the Minolta I have documented before, some have "lazy sensors" which create a line across the scan, the images tend to have aliasing problems making the image grittier than necessary, especially with neg films, and also dust, dirt and scratches are more obvious, and lastly sometimes the calibration process seems to go haywire and develops a wide pink streak down negs. Art Op's wrote: > > Arthur Entlich wrote: > > >> >>Finally, HP offered me the "new" S-20, although the banding was gone, it >>had a number of other problems, and eventually it too went back to HP, >>and I ended up with A Minolta Dual II, a much better scanner, but still >>not without defects and problems. >> >>The problem is that the optics are just not good enough in that scanner. >> It has a very complex optical path due to the "feature" of allowing it >>to scan both transmissive and reflective things (reflective at 300 dpi, >>which my today's standards is a bit of a joke). There are so many >>moving objects in the scanner light/optical path (mirrors, etc) that I'm >>amazed it works at all. >> > > Art > > Do you mean that the Minolta has optical problems or was the above still referring >to the > HP??? > > Rob > > > > Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Colour fringing
Mike, I agree with Arthur's comments. I bought an HP S-20 and was doing "OK" with it, but not stunned by the quality of scans. A friend of mine with scanning experience caused me deep distress by suggesting that the S20 was a toy and not worth having, and that I should get (at that time) a Nikon LS30 for not much more. After looking at my scans a bit more critically and not getting any joy out of HP on a problem with banding, I sent it back and bought an LS2000. While the LS2000 wouldn't win any awards now, the improvement over the S20 was spectacular and immediately obvious. Proved my friend's point, and my advice to anyone is don't get an S20 unless you REALLY want the dual transparency /positive option and you are not fussy about quality. Why anyone would want the positive scanning option I don't know as you can do a better job with a cheap flatbed. As Art says, the optical path in the S20 is complex and prone to misalignment etc. Sorry to be so down on what was probably a carefully researched purchase decision, but I do think it likely that you'd be happier with a different brand. You could try sending the thing back with example scans to HP but I don't think much of your chances. I just thing the S20 is a disappointing scanner. HTH Julian At 21:02 07/07/02, you wrote: >Hi Mike: > >Before I make any comment, below is the exact note I supplied to my >computer retailer when I returned my HP S-20 for a refund (they had to >ship it back to HP, so they asked me for a defect list...) > > > > HP S-20 Scanner SN.SG8BBX > > > > Problems: > > > > 1) Color fringing (red/green) in bars going across image width > > > > Attempted suggested correction by HP of turn scanner over and > >cycling through modes several times. Did not improve matter. > > > > 2) excessive response to reds in transparencies, causing burned > >flesh tones, which are difficult to correct. > > > > 3) Double cycles eject when ejecting slides and negative strips. > >Sometimes doesn't acknowledge slide or neg when introduced into carrier. > >=== > >Make sure your images are not manifesting color fringing from optical >problems with your camera lenses (although you seem to imply this isn't >the case). Look over your images with a quality loupe. Then try what >HP suggested, turn the scanner over, and cycle it through the three >different modes (slide, neg, print) several times, and the try it again. > >My S-20 had two types of fringing. The type I can see in your image, >and a micro fringing that you had to zoom in tight to seem. It was a >type of banding fringing that was directly related to the resolution I >scanned at. It was also red/green, and it was particularly obvious if I >scanned a black and white slide or a black and white negative as a >slide, since it was the only color in the image. > >History: > >My first film scanner was a HP S-10. I went through 3 of them trying to >get one that didn't band in the shadows, and all of them suffered from >one defect of another. > >Finally, HP offered me the "new" S-20, although the banding was gone, it >had a number of other problems, and eventually it too went back to HP, >and I ended up with A Minolta Dual II, a much better scanner, but still >not without defects and problems. > >The problem is that the optics are just not good enough in that scanner. > It has a very complex optical path due to the "feature" of allowing it >to scan both transmissive and reflective things (reflective at 300 dpi, >which my today's standards is a bit of a joke). There are so many >moving objects in the scanner light/optical path (mirrors, etc) that I'm >amazed it works at all. > >At the time the S-10 came out, that model was the least expensive film >scanner on the market. Today, there are numerous better models for >about the same price (The Canon FS-2710, the Minolta Dual II, and >cheaper ones (although slightly lower resolution) like the Primefilm 1800U. > >If the unit is still under warranty, get in touch with HP about it. If >they can't replace it with one that doesn't fringe, get your money back >and buy something else. Slide scanners should not show color fringing, >any more than should a quality lens. > > >Art > > >Mike Brown wrote: > > > I'm relatively new to the list so apologies if this one has been done to > > death but... > > > > I recently bought a cheap-ish scanner, an HP Photosmart S20, and I've > been a > > bit disappointed with the results. I'm getting better results overall now > > I've bought Vuescan but haven't resolved the fringing issue. It's difficult > > to know what to expect as nobody ever puts full size sample files on their > > websites! I've done the usual trawl around the net but can't find fringing > > mentioned as a particular problem. > > > > I started off scanning some very old slides & noticed the fringing. > > Initially I put it down to having used a cheap teleconverter with a russian > > lens. I've noticed the problem with other slides and n
[filmscanners] Re: Colour fringing
Hi Mike: Before I make any comment, below is the exact note I supplied to my computer retailer when I returned my HP S-20 for a refund (they had to ship it back to HP, so they asked me for a defect list...) > HP S-20 Scanner SN.SG8BBX > > Problems: > > 1) Color fringing (red/green) in bars going across image width > > Attempted suggested correction by HP of turn scanner over and cycling through modes several times. Did not improve matter. > > 2) excessive response to reds in transparencies, causing burned flesh tones, which are difficult to correct. > > 3) Double cycles eject when ejecting slides and negative strips. Sometimes doesn't acknowledge slide or neg when introduced into carrier. === Make sure your images are not manifesting color fringing from optical problems with your camera lenses (although you seem to imply this isn't the case). Look over your images with a quality loupe. Then try what HP suggested, turn the scanner over, and cycle it through the three different modes (slide, neg, print) several times, and the try it again. My S-20 had two types of fringing. The type I can see in your image, and a micro fringing that you had to zoom in tight to seem. It was a type of banding fringing that was directly related to the resolution I scanned at. It was also red/green, and it was particularly obvious if I scanned a black and white slide or a black and white negative as a slide, since it was the only color in the image. History: My first film scanner was a HP S-10. I went through 3 of them trying to get one that didn't band in the shadows, and all of them suffered from one defect of another. Finally, HP offered me the "new" S-20, although the banding was gone, it had a number of other problems, and eventually it too went back to HP, and I ended up with A Minolta Dual II, a much better scanner, but still not without defects and problems. The problem is that the optics are just not good enough in that scanner. It has a very complex optical path due to the "feature" of allowing it to scan both transmissive and reflective things (reflective at 300 dpi, which my today's standards is a bit of a joke). There are so many moving objects in the scanner light/optical path (mirrors, etc) that I'm amazed it works at all. At the time the S-10 came out, that model was the least expensive film scanner on the market. Today, there are numerous better models for about the same price (The Canon FS-2710, the Minolta Dual II, and cheaper ones (although slightly lower resolution) like the Primefilm 1800U. If the unit is still under warranty, get in touch with HP about it. If they can't replace it with one that doesn't fringe, get your money back and buy something else. Slide scanners should not show color fringing, any more than should a quality lens. Art Mike Brown wrote: > I'm relatively new to the list so apologies if this one has been done to > death but... > > I recently bought a cheap-ish scanner, an HP Photosmart S20, and I've been a > bit disappointed with the results. I'm getting better results overall now > I've bought Vuescan but haven't resolved the fringing issue. It's difficult > to know what to expect as nobody ever puts full size sample files on their > websites! I've done the usual trawl around the net but can't find fringing > mentioned as a particular problem. > > I started off scanning some very old slides & noticed the fringing. > Initially I put it down to having used a cheap teleconverter with a russian > lens. I've noticed the problem with other slides and negatives though and I > think it's something to do with the stepper motor drive or film slippage. > The fringing is always across the narrow dimension ie at 90 degrees to the > direction of movement. The fringing isn't always there and is often only > present in a few places in the scan (or is much worse in a few places). > Rescanning produces different results, sometimes with no fringing. > > If anyone wants to take a look there's a small jpg extracted from a larger > scan at http://www.royalwindsor.org.uk/S20_fringing.jpg. A > quarter-resolution version of full 2400dpi scan is available at > http://www.royalwindsor.org.uk/Wheel_wait_qtr.jpg. Personally I'm aware of > red fringes on the right hand side of the verticals even at 800x600. > > Comments gratefully received! > > Mike Brown > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
