[filmscanners] Re: Nikon LS-4000ED Depth of Field Revisited

2003-01-25 Thread Julian Robinson
Hi Derek,

In the web site above, critical focus is maintained with a +/-12 Nikon
unit range, and decent focus within a +/-24 range.  How this translates to
the LS4000, I don't know.

I have looked at the scans super magnified and tried to discern what makes
for a critical focus range in the LS4000 and what makes for a decently
focused range (using NikonScan focus units) by looking at grain structure,
but I fear I have not been to successful with this method.

I was very interested to read your comments - it is good to hear that at
least some examples of the LS4000 seem to work well re focus.  As Peter
said, the extent of the focus problem definitely varies a lot of between
individual scanners.

But I am bothered that you couldn't determine the critical focus range -
particularly since I have been waiting for a year or so for someone to do
this on an LS4000!!  (it was my page you were looking at).  Can you have
another go?  It would be very instructive for LS4000 owners, of which I am
not one, and also for me to know if the LS4000 is an improvement over the
LS2000 in this respect.

It should be easy to do, unless I am missing something about the LS4000
that interferes with the method.  Let me try another description to see if
it helps. Pls don't be insulted by the level of detail, I am trying to make
sure we are doing the same thing.

1) Use a negative, neg is better because scans have more apparent grain to
play with.
2) Do a preview and crop the image on the preview to be a small area around
some part of the neg with obvious grain
3) Do a manual autofocus on that point, read the focus number in Nikon
units - call your reading X.  By manual autofocus I mean :

 - hold down on the control or command key and click on
the focus button (the one like a checkered flag)
 - now click on your test area on the preview (the cursor
should have changed to a gunsight)

4) Scan, save the scan and enlarge in PS or whatever.  Note that the grain
is sharp.
5) Now, manually set the focus point to X + 5 or 10 units.  To do this,
type the required value directly into the Manual Focus Adjustment box on
the Scanner Extras palette.  Repeat the scan and check if the grain is
still sharp.
6) Repeat 5) as often as necessary increasing the focus point value each
time, (moving the lens more and more away from the correct focus point)
until the resulting scan has clearly lost grain sharpness
7) Repeat 5) and 6) but this time setting the focus point to LESS than the
auto-derived focus value (i.e. X-5, X-10 etc), until the image again has
definite soft grain.
8) You should now have a series of little images with names like +5,
-20.  Line them up in Photoshop or whatever, in order, and pick the two
(a plus value and a minus value) at which the grain first becomes
definitely soft.  The difference between them is the DOF in Nikon units -
to grain sharpness level.  I did the same exercise again, but looking at
the *image* sharpness disregarding the fact that the grain was obviously
soft and got another figure - a greater range - over which the image was
acceptably sharp for my purposes.  This gave me a kind of worst case -
the actual range which I had to keep my film within if the image was to be
usable.

The first time you do step 5, I suggest you choose an outlandish figure
like X + 50 just to check that the method is working.  If the resulting
test image is not way our of focus then there is a problem with my description.

Hope this helps, because it is not much use knowing the curviness of your
images if you don't know the scanner DOF.  I look fwd to your results.  If
any other LS4000 user has done this measurement can you tell us your
results pls?  (Or LS2000, 30, 8000 for that matter).

Julian




Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners'
or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body



[filmscanners] Re: Nikon LS-4000ED Depth of Field Revisited

2003-01-25 Thread Julian Robinson
Tony,

At 09:11 26/01/03, you wrote:
I performed these exact experiments about a year ago when the DOF issues
were being discussed at length. My tests were done on a Kodachome 200 slide
which I specificaly used because of the ease with which I could focus on the
grain.

My own personal tests made it evident that anything much outside of -5 and
+10 from critial focus (this is using Nikonscan's focus units) started to
show unacceptable softening. That to me does not give much leeway in
focusing on a pice of film to get the image sharp across the whole length of
the film. Og course other peopple may not be as fussy with sharpness across
a scan but -5 and +10 are my own personal comfort levels. As a result all my
film is now left uncut and stored in negative sheets so it remains perfectly
flat for scanning. Any probematic pieces of film go in a glass slide mount
with anti-newton glass.

Thank you! It seems that the LS4000 is much the same as the LS2000 in
optical DOF and in calibration of arbitrary focus units, since my critical
DOF was +/-6 units.  i.e. your range total is 15 compared with my 12 - well
within experimental error!  As I said before I found I could get usable
images (not grain sharp but image-sharp, enough to be undetectable) over
double this range.

Thanks again that was useful,

Julian

Julian
Canberra, Australia
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~julian/photo-an/photo-an.htm


Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners'
or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body



[filmscanners] Re: Nikon LS-4000ED Depth of Field Revisited

2003-01-25 Thread Julian Robinson
Mats,

Interesting way of determing DOF. I wonder if it works with Vuescan and a
Canon FS2710??

The method requires software and hardware that gives you a readout of focus
position, and allows you to set that focus position.  I doubt that the
Canon does this, in which case you can't do it.

I don't know much about the Nikon scanners (I have a Canon FS 2710). But I
think there MAY be a flaw in the above method of determining DOF.

I just think that it may actually be that the Nikon units are not the
same size on two different models of scanner, because I have a feeling that
they may be stepper motor steps from some point (or something along those
lines).


Yes this is correct, but I wasn't attempting to compare between
scanners.  The idea is that for your own (Nikon) scanner you compare your
own 'usable DOF' with your own measured 'film curviness'.  If the film sits
in your scanner with a measured flatness (measured using the scanner's
focus units) such that the film location variation is less than the
measured scanner DOF (also measured in scanner focus units) then you are
doing well - your scans will be in focus.

In my scanner, the usable DOF is about 20 nikon LS2000 units (i.e. +/-10),
but the variation of the film position is 30 to 90 units (I.e. +/-15 to +/-
45), so unless I try very hard (use flat film and manual holder), some part
of my images will be out of focus.

Julian

Julian
Canberra, Australia
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~julian/photo-an/photo-an.htm


Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners'
or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body