Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[IQ3D]

Art

Thanks for your comments. I am rescanning the slide today to see whether the 
problem is the same or has changed with time. It is possible that it is 
blooming from slightly higher than average exposure. However, the slides do 
not look underexposed - just a little dense and saturated. I guess it could b 
a function of a problem with the original processing (maybe leaving a 
slightly milky base?).

We do not have any smoke in this room - it is a no smoking environment and 
while not a cleanroom it is a realtively clean office. I think condensation 
is unlikely because it had not been moved and there was no chance of any 
steam.

I will let you know when we have done the new scan of it. I am reluctant to 
send for cleaning when the fault may not be dirt!! Probably find it is down 
to my photography!! Thanks again for all comments.

Regards,
Chris


Chris Parks
Image Quest 3-D
The Moos
Poffley End
Witney
Oxon
OX8 5UW
England
Tel: +44 (0)1993 704050
Fax: +44 (0)1993 779203
Web: www.imagequest3d.com

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[Arthur Entlich]

I took a look at your scanned image (a nice image, BTW).  The fact that 
the flare only becomes visible on boosting levels, might mean you are 
experiencing blooming, which is why I asked in my earlier posting if the 
the exposure seemed correct.  However, there seems to be excessive 
blooming here, and I suspect this is due to contaminated surfaces on the 
optics (oil, smoke, etc.).  I guess the question is, is this s new 
problem or did it manifest this when it was first purchased?  Has it 
gotten worse over time?

On the off chance my post of about a week ago got lost in the gears, I
will repeat it here:

1st question:

How many people smoke near where the scanner is located?  Or cook fried
foods?  Or was the unit moved that day from a cold to warm place?

The most common cause of halos in a scanner which seemed fine in the
past, is an accumulation of residue on the lenses optics of ccd surface.
Sometimes it could be water condensation from moving the scanner into a
new environment or if you have a very steamy situation (hey, just what
kind of images are these anyway ;-)) but if it is that, it will resolve
in a few hours.

Of course, if you don't normally scan high contrast images with a lot of
black, you might not have noticed that this problem was developing over
time (residue on the optics).

Before panicking, however, it could be improper exposure.  All CCD
scanners suffer from some blooming, and this can be made worse by
incorrect setting causing overexposure, which can occur with a lot of
black background and the scanner using autoexposure.  Assuming, however,
that the part of the image that isn't black looks properly exposed, it
likely isn't that.  If the non-black portion is overexposed, you need to
reset the white and black points manually before scanning, and rescan.

Otherwise, it sounds like it may need a trip to your friendly Nikon
service facility, which will likely charge you close to the resale value
of the scanner to clean it. [;-)]

Actually, I think they charge about $200 US.

Like any optical products, (and most electronic, as well) having them in
smoky environments is asking for functional problems down the road.

Art

RE: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[Shough, Dean]

> I have posted an image which shows the bleed onto a page on our website -
> it 
> can be seen at http://www.imagequest3d.com/flaring/ 
> I have experienced the streaking that Harry describes as well - but not
> since 
> I switched from the Coolscan III to the LS 2000. 
> I will try rescanning the images when I get the time and see whether there
> 
> has been any change - especially with multiple passes. I have come to the 
> conclusion that it is purely a result of the high contrast levels giving
> the 
> CCD problems. 
> Regards, 
> Chris 
>

I doubt very much that the problem is the CCD.  Instead, I expect that light
is scattering off dust or oils on the optics.  

One way to check out the scanner would be to take a completely unexposed
piece of slide film (the scraps from the end of  roll would work great) and
use a paper punch to make a clear area in the middle.  If the CCD is the
problem, you should see ghosting in one direction only around the hole.  If
the problem is contamination on the optics the haze should be uniform in all
directions.

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[IQ3D]

I have posted an image which shows the bleed onto a page on our website - it 
can be seen at http://www.imagequest3d.com/flaring/
I have experienced the streaking that Harry describes as well - but not since 
I switched from the Coolscan III to the LS 2000.
I will try rescanning the images when I get the time and see whether there 
has been any change - especially with multiple passes. I have come to the 
conclusion that it is purely a result of the high contrast levels giving the 
CCD problems.
Regards,
Chris


Chris Parks
Image Quest 3-D
The Moos
Poffley End
Witney
Oxon
OX8 5UW
England
Tel: +44 (0)1993 704050
Fax: +44 (0)1993 779203
Web: www.imagequest3d.com

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[David Hoffman]

At 1:40 pm +0300 12/6/01, Harry Lehto wrote:
>The black backgound
>close to a bright spot is very unforgiving for such things. If your halos
>move to the "outer" side of your bright image then I believe that it is
>a reflection or a comalike distortion. If they stay only as "halos"
>centered on your bright spot even right at the edge of your field then
>I suspect some internal reflections in the optical elements closest to the
>CCD.

The effect I see isn't any sort of reflected or ghost image, more a 
light fogginess bleeding from the light area into the dark. The 
transparency that shows it best is a black trouser leg against a 
white car. There are no really bright small areas - the LS2000 
handles these fairly well. Like with cameras, the worst effect is 
from large bright areas not small very bright ones.

David Hoffman
-- 
   __
   David Hoffman Photo Library
  

  phone +44 (0)20 8981 5041 fax  +44 (0)20 8980 2041

David Hoffman will be away from 16 June 2001 until 1 July 2001. 
Photographs are available via Image.Net (http://www.imagenet.co.uk) 
where you should first go to register. For further information please 
send me a blank email with subject "help imagenet" and you will 
receive a detailed description of the service within two to four 
hours. For urgent requirements please phone my mobile on 07881 817 
751. 

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[Lynn Allen]

That makes a lot of sense, and seems to equate to what I saw in the "stars" 
test (viz pinholes in black leader). Different scanners appear to show 
different results, but *some* haloing seems to be universal, in all the 
tests I've seen.

I'd like to be proven wrong on this one, if anyone has better answers.

Best regards--LRA

>
>At 5:06 am -0400 6/6/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>using the LS2000 for some time now and have been very pleased
>>with the results. Just recently however we have put through a batch of 
>>slides
>>with subjects against black backgrounds. The scans have all got a hazy 
>>halo
>>round all the bright areas
>
>
>I doubt that it's flare from dust or stuff (but you could give it a
>good blast with canned air to see). I've seen this with my LS2000
>too. It happens where there are large light areas next to black. The
>best explanation that I've heard is a kind of electronic flare - CCD
>cells reaching a high enough voltage when strongly illuminated to
>induce a higher voltage in their neighbours. Being as the neighbours
>should be reporting near zero output for black even a small boost is
>significant. Maybe the processing makes it worse.
>
>I've found a high bit multipass scan (best with Vuescan but
>Silverfast's almost as good) & careful Photoshop the only way to fix
>it.
>
>David Hoffman
>--
>   __
>   David Hoffman Photo Library
>  
>
>  phone +44 (0)20 8981 5041 fax  +44 (0)20 8980 2041
>
>David Hoffman will be away from 16 June 2001 until 1 July 2001.
>Photographs are available via Image.Net (http://www.imagenet.co.uk)
>where you should first go to register. For further information please
>send me a blank email with subject "help imagenet" and you will
>receive a detailed description of the service within two to four
>hours. For urgent requirements please phone my mobile on 07881 817
>751.

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[Harry Lehto]

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, David Hoffman wrote:

> At 5:06 am -0400 6/6/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >with the results. Just recently however we have put through a batch of slides
> >with subjects against black backgrounds. The scans have all got a hazy halo
> >round all the bright areas
>
> I doubt that it's flare from dust or stuff (but you could give it a
> good blast with canned air to see). I've seen this with my LS2000
> too. It happens where there are large light areas next to black.

It is sounds similar to what I reported a while ago on a nikon cooslcan
IV  (ED40) and Canon 2710. I've since seen scans of a similar phenomenon
on LS 1000 and LS 4000 and also some other brand scanners that escapes my
mind.

> kind of electronic flare - CCD cells reaching a high enough voltage
> when strongly illuminated to induce a higher voltage in their neighbours.

The CDD leak should show always as artifacts (usually as streaks) on the
same side of the bright image (right?). And it should go away if decrease
the CCD exposure time. (At least this is the way it works in astronomical
CCDs).

The scanner itself has optical elements in it. And with these elements
comes reflections and other optical distortions. The black backgound
close to a bright spot is very unforgiving for such things. If your halos
move to the "outer" side of your bright image then I believe that it is
a reflection or a comalike distortion. If they stay only as "halos"
centered on your bright spot even right at the edge of your field then
I suspect some internal reflections in the optical elements closest to the
CCD.

You may want to check how these halos behave. Take a black film, make
severel dozen holes, and see how these halos behave in different parts of
the film.

Regards
Harry
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[IQ3D]

Dave and others!

Thanks for your suggestions and comments. Dave, Your summary makes sense in 
this situation although I will be keeping an eye on dust/humidity! Multi pass 
does seem to help the situation.

Again - thanks for all comments!

Chris

Chris Parks
Image Quest 3-D
The Moos
Poffley End
Witney
Oxon
OX8 5UW
England
Tel: +44 (0)1993 704050
Fax: +44 (0)1993 779203
Web: www.imagequest3d.com

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[David Hoffman]

At 5:06 am -0400 6/6/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>using the LS2000 for some time now and have been very pleased
>with the results. Just recently however we have put through a batch of slides
>with subjects against black backgrounds. The scans have all got a hazy halo
>round all the bright areas


I doubt that it's flare from dust or stuff (but you could give it a 
good blast with canned air to see). I've seen this with my LS2000 
too. It happens where there are large light areas next to black. The 
best explanation that I've heard is a kind of electronic flare - CCD 
cells reaching a high enough voltage when strongly illuminated to 
induce a higher voltage in their neighbours. Being as the neighbours 
should be reporting near zero output for black even a small boost is 
significant. Maybe the processing makes it worse.

I've found a high bit multipass scan (best with Vuescan but 
Silverfast's almost as good) & careful Photoshop the only way to fix 
it.

David Hoffman
-- 
   __
   David Hoffman Photo Library
  

  phone +44 (0)20 8981 5041 fax  +44 (0)20 8980 2041

David Hoffman will be away from 16 June 2001 until 1 July 2001. 
Photographs are available via Image.Net (http://www.imagenet.co.uk) 
where you should first go to register. For further information please 
send me a blank email with subject "help imagenet" and you will 
receive a detailed description of the service within two to four 
hours. For urgent requirements please phone my mobile on 07881 817 
751. 

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[Tony Sleep]

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:06:21 EDT   ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> The scans have all got a hazy halo 
> round all the bright areas such that on an A4 print there is about 15 - 
> 20mm around the bright area which is less than total black. 

Sounds like flare, from dust/oil/water on the lens.

Regards 

Tony Sleep
http://www.halftone.co.uk - Online portfolio & exhibit; + film scanner 
info & comparisons

Re: filmscanners: Hazy bleed in hi contrast blacks on LS2000

[Arthur Entlich]

1st question:

How many people smoke near where the scanner is located?  Or cook fried 
foods?  Or was the unit moved that day from a cold to warm place?

The most common cause of halos in a scanner which seemed fine in the 
past, is an accumulation of residue on the lenses optics of ccd surface. 
Sometimes it could be water condensation from moving the scanner into a 
new environment or if you have a very steamy situation (hey, just what 
kind of images are these anyway ;-)) but if it is that, it will resolve 
in a few hours.

Of course, if you don't normally scan high contrast images with a lot of 
black, you might not have noticed that this problem was developing over 
time (residue on the optics).

Before panicking, however, it could be improper exposure.  All CCD 
scanners suffer from some blooming, and this can be made worse by 
incorrect setting causing overexposure, which can occur with a lot of 
black background and the scanner using autoexposure.  Assuming, however, 
that the part of the image that isn't black looks properly exposed, it 
likely isn't that.  If the non-black portion is overexposed, you need to 
reset the white and black points manually before scanning, and rescan.

Otherwise, it sounds like it may need a trip to your friendly Nikon 
service facility, which will likely charge you close to the resale value 
of the scanner to clean it. ;-)

Actually, I think they charge about $200 US.

Like any optical products, (and most electronic, as well) having them in 
smoky environments is asking for functional problems down the road.

Art



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi All
> 
> We have been using the LS2000 for some time now and have been very pleased
> with the results. Just recently however we have put through a batch of 
> slides
> with subjects against black backgrounds. The scans have all got a hazy halo
> round all the bright areas such that on an A4 print there is about 15 - 
> 20mm
> around the bright area which is less than total black.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this?  Does anyone have any idea what might be
> causing this?
> 
> Many thanks
> Chris
> 
> Chris Parks
> Image Quest 3-D
> The Moos
> Poffley End
> Witney
> Oxon
> OX8 5UW
> England
> Tel: +44 (0)1993 704050
> Fax: +44 (0)1993 779203
> Web: www.imagequest3d.com