Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
In a message dated 4/29/2001 6:33:12 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But don't the Nikon scanners allow the user to choose an XY point on the frame as the focussing point? Yes, but I'm not sure how it uses the X point. It might more heavily weight the contrast at the X point, or it might limit the contrast computation to an area around the X point. Regards, Ed Hamrick
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
In a message dated 4/29/2001 6:45:19 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That allows you to set the focus point but not in the way I meant. In Nikonscan you can click on a point in the preview and use that as the focus point for the focussing system. So it's an XY location in the image not the Z direction. Ed may not have implemented it because AFAIK it's only available in the Nikons. I'm thinking of adding a focus offset option, in millimeters, for the offset from the center of the image. I could alternatively add a focus position (%) option, which would put the focus position some percentage of the way into a frame (50% would be normal, 30% would move the focus position near the edge of the frame). I'm leaning towards the latter. Regards, Ed Hamrick
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Possibly Ed could modify vuescan to focus on a specific offset in the frame. Why not some sort of average of the distances sample points, weighted according to the amount of surface area represented by each point. (E.g. if the slide were circular and the samples along a radial line, each would be weighted by the circumference of a circle with its radius.) Bill Ross
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Hi! Focusing takes a lot of time... Regards Erik On Sunday 29 April 2001 10:06, you wrote: Possibly Ed could modify vuescan to focus on a specific offset in the frame. Why not some sort of average of the distances sample points, weighted according to the amount of surface area represented by each point. (E.g. if the slide were circular and the samples along a radial line, each would be weighted by the circumference of a circle with its radius.) Bill Ross -- Erik Kaffehr[EMAIL PROTECTED] alt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mariebergsvägen 53 +46 155 219338 (home) S-611 66 Nyköping +46 155 263515 (office) Sweden -- Message sent using 100% recycled electrons --
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Rob wrote: Is there any way to set the focus location in vuescan? Yes, there is. Alan W gave me this advice: On the device tab of VueScan 7.0.10 on the right hand side change the focus drop down box to: MANUAL Then a new input box will appear allowing you to place values from -1 to +1 if I recall the range correctly... It's not exactly intuitive, but if I'm not mistaken you can set the depth in hundredths. So with a little experimentation, you can probably get very close to your target. Best regards--LRA --- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
In a message dated 4/29/2001 3:10:50 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why not some sort of average of the distances sample points, weighted according to the amount of surface area represented by each point. (E.g. if the slide were circular and the samples along a radial line, each would be weighted by the circumference of a circle with its radius.) Scanners focus at a fixed scanning position, and do it by varying the focus distance until the contrast is maximized. The only real option is the position of the scan line. Regards, Ed Hamrick
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Focusing takes a lot of time... Maybe the sample points could be handled in parallel using a stripe across the center of the film. Possibly Ed could modify vuescan to focus on a specific offset in the frame. Why not some sort of average of the distances sample points, weighted according to the amount of surface area represented by each point. (E.g. if the slide were circular and the samples along a radial line, each would be weighted by the circumference of a circle with its radius.) Bill Ross -- Erik Kaffehr[EMAIL PROTECTED] alt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mariebergsvägen 53 +46 155 219338 (home) S-611 66 Nyköping +46 155 263515 (office) Sweden -- Message sent using 100% recycled electrons --
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Lynn wrote: Rob wrote: Is there any way to set the focus location in vuescan? On the device tab of VueScan 7.0.10 on the right hand side change the focus drop down box to: MANUAL That allows you to set the focus point but not in the way I meant. In Nikonscan you can click on a point in the preview and use that as the focus point for the focussing system. So it's an XY location in the image not the Z direction. Ed may not have implemented it because AFAIK it's only available in the Nikons. Rob PS Another thing I wish Vuescan did was report back how many frames there are in a strip. Vuescan reads the information - for instance if you tell it to scan frame 5 in a 4 frame strip, it will scan frame 4. But it isn't displayed anywhere. Yesterday I was trying to scan a strip which was 5 and a half frames (the camera tried to squeeze another frame on the film and partially overlapped the last frame). I ended up having to turn the strip around and scan the frame as frame 1 rather than frame 5. No big deal but it would be nice if Vuescan reported somewhere how many frames were detected by the scanner. Rob Geraghty [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wordweb.com
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
I have been following this LS4000 sharpness issue with a lot of interest, because the real question for me, is how will the LS8000 compare with the SS120. Considering that a 6X9 frame is so much larger than a 35mm, I wonder whether the LS8000 will have a major problem getting the entire frame in focus. Any guesses? (Since guesses is all we have for now, until someone can actually compare an LS8000 to a SS120). Asael www.DigitalPhotographicArt.com - Original Message - From: Joel Wilcox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 2:32 PM Subject: Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness From: shAf [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would seem a user could crop a small rectangle and ask for a manual focus ... then crop preferentially and scan with automatic focus disabled(?) I've never been able to verify if this works ... even while my LS-2000 goes through the motions, the manual focus number doesn't update. I always found it easiest in VueScan just to let focus set up in auto and then switch to manual and alter the focus setting by an experimental amount -- my recollection is that it was .040 one way or the other. Joel W. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Asael writes ... ... Considering that a 6X9 frame is so much larger than a 35mm, I wonder whether the LS8000 will have a major problem getting the entire frame in focus. ... Not a problem ... the lens don't work from the center outward, the optics move with the scan. shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Yes, but do they refocus as they go?! Asael www.DigitalPhotographicArt.com - Original Message - From: shAf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness Asael writes ... ... Considering that a 6X9 frame is so much larger than a 35mm, I wonder whether the LS8000 will have a major problem getting the entire frame in focus. ... Not a problem ... the lens don't work from the center outward, the optics move with the scan. shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Ed wrote: the focus distance until the contrast is maximized. The only real option is the position of the scan line. But don't the Nikon scanners allow the user to choose an XY point on the frame as the focussing point? Rob Rob Geraghty [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wordweb.com
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
In a message dated 4/28/2001 6:39:14 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This raises an interesting question. Is there any way to set the focus location in vuescan? It focuses in the center of the scan region. I'll look into this some more when I get a loaner LS-4000 from Nikon, hopefully in the next week or so. Regards, Ed Hamrick
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Ed writes ... In a message dated 4/28/2001 6:39:14 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This raises an interesting question. Is there any way to set the focus location in vuescan? It focuses in the center of the scan region. I'll look into this some more when I get a loaner LS-4000 from Nikon, hopefully in the next week or so. It would seem a user could crop a small rectangle and ask for a manual focus ... then crop preferentially and scan with automatic focus disabled(?) I've never been able to verify if this works ... even while my LS-2000 goes through the motions, the manual focus number doesn't update. This is one of the few features I like about Nikonscan ... an ability to zoom in, ask for a preview, ask for a focus, and ask again for a preview. You get to realize visual and numeric feedback, and the preview scans take only seconds. The visual feedback and previews aren't all that necessary ... you simply learn to trust the focusing, and I expect it would add considerable programming. The numeric feedback IS very useful, allowing you to realize differences from one area of the film and another, and therefore to average the numbers (or pick a preference) and enter the number in the manual focus dialog box. shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
I forgot to mention before that in NikonScan 3 and Siverfast 5 can the user select the focus spot manually ( move the focus area out against the side of the film .) Best regards Mikael Risedal _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
But should you really have to do that? Isn't that adding a lot of manual intervention to compensate for a design flaw? I'm really interested in the LS4000, but I never have to go to this trouble with my SS4000. Tom I forgot to mention before that in NikonScan 3 and Siverfast 5 can the user select the focus spot manually ( move the focus area out against the side of the film .) Best regards Mikael Risedal
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Tom Scales writes ... But should you really have to do that? Isn't that adding a lot of manual intervention to compensate for a design flaw? I'm really interested in the LS4000, but I never have to go to this trouble with my SS4000. Was it a design flaw or a tradeoff? I won't claim to know for sure ... except to point out we've always been confronted with similar tradeoffs. The best enlargers have always offered diffused illumination or better contrast with point source illumination. However, to take best advantage of point source illumination and potential edge sharpness we needed better resolution. And then, we were confronted with a need for glass carriers because of the ^inherent^ loss of depth of focus (a law of physics). With regard to SS4000 vs LS-4000, there are analogies here. A choice of illumination, the optimum optics and a subsequent need for decreased depth-of-focus. For a buyer the question which remains is which type of illumination suits your exposures and films best. Independent of the need for IR, an educated guess would be, for negatives and better color gamut, you might opt for increased edge contrast and the Nikon (and flat film) ... but for an all around better solution, negatives or slides, the Polaroid. What remains is an A-B comparison for both print film and a slide, of the same 2mm area, Nikon vs Polaroid (... Tony? ...) my US$0.02 ... shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
All points well taken. My whole point of switching from the Polaroid to the Nikon, though, was the I wanted the roll film carrier. Now, what I am reading seems to imply that I have to manually adjust the focus on each individual frame. Perhaps I am misreading that, and a generic focus at a middle spot would work, but why didn't Nikon do their software right then? I want to be able to load a roll of film, go to bed, and wake up to 36 properly exposed, properly focused scans. Why else have the roll film adapter? I might as well keep doing them 6 at a time. Bottom line, it feels like a scanner that is late to the market and was rushed. Given time and releases of the software, it might be an incredible scanner, but for now, I'll wait. Tom P.S. David, hint hint, give me the roll film adapter and I won't defect. Tom Scales writes ... But should you really have to do that? Isn't that adding a lot of manual intervention to compensate for a design flaw? I'm really interested in the LS4000, but I never have to go to this trouble with my SS4000. Was it a design flaw or a tradeoff? I won't claim to know for sure ... except to point out we've always been confronted with similar tradeoffs. The best enlargers have always offered diffused illumination or better contrast with point source illumination. However, to take best advantage of point source illumination and potential edge sharpness we needed better resolution. And then, we were confronted with a need for glass carriers because of the ^inherent^ loss of depth of focus (a law of physics). With regard to SS4000 vs LS-4000, there are analogies here. A choice of illumination, the optimum optics and a subsequent need for decreased depth-of-focus. For a buyer the question which remains is which type of illumination suits your exposures and films best. Independent of the need for IR, an educated guess would be, for negatives and better color gamut, you might opt for increased edge contrast and the Nikon (and flat film) ... but for an all around better solution, negatives or slides, the Polaroid. What remains is an A-B comparison for both print film and a slide, of the same 2mm area, Nikon vs Polaroid (... Tony? ...) my US$0.02 ... shAf :o)
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
From: shAf [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would seem a user could crop a small rectangle and ask for a manual focus ... then crop preferentially and scan with automatic focus disabled(?) I've never been able to verify if this works ... even while my LS-2000 goes through the motions, the manual focus number doesn't update. I always found it easiest in VueScan just to let focus set up in auto and then switch to manual and alter the focus setting by an experimental amount -- my recollection is that it was .040 one way or the other. Joel W. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Tom Scales [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to be able to load a roll of film, go to bed, and wake up to 36 properly exposed, properly focused scans. Why else have the roll film adapter? Possibly Ed could modify vuescan to focus on a specific offset in the frame. Rob
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It focuses in the center of the scan region. I'll look into this some more when I get a loaner LS-4000 from Nikon, hopefully in the next week or so. Thanks Ed! I was thinking of all the Nikon scanners, which supposedly have a capability to focus on a specific point - I have an LS30. So far I don't think I've had significant focus problems except with the ends of some film strips in the strip feeder. Rob
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
That would make the buy decision for me, since I do all my scanning with Vuescan now. Tom Tom Scales [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to be able to load a roll of film, go to bed, and wake up to 36 properly exposed, properly focused scans. Why else have the roll film adapter? Possibly Ed could modify vuescan to focus on a specific offset in the frame. Rob
Re: filmscanners: LS4000 and sharpness
Well, that pretty much proves that the problem is depth of field, which is what you and others suggested. It also implies Nikon could have played with the software to calibrate the focusing feature to accomplish this very easily, even without a hardware change, just by using an average offset from the middle (and called it curved film focusing as a second option, rather than having to go in and defeat the autofocus and do it manually. I recommend you write Nikon and inform them of this, and being one of those righteous companies, whose advertising claims can be taken fully at face value, I'm sure they will have a software fix for you within days, if not sooner. ;-) Art Mikael Risedal wrote: Ed Thanks to you and a scratched film I have discovered how to have the best resolution from the LS4000 scanner and curved film problem. The imported thing is to put the focus area right in the picture area. After some experiment with the scratched film I found out that the best way to have optimal resolution from the scanner are to move the focus area half way out from the middle of the picture to the side. This means that the depth of field now cover the middle and corner better and the picture now looks equal sharp overall. If I put the focus area in the middle ( standard mode) the sides and corner are not so sharp as at the middle of the picture. Best regards Mikael Risedal Lund Sweden _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
