Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On 21.01.2004 1:37 Uhr, Richard Huggins wrote Below would be my choice as well. As for the objection that it can't be used if correct spacing were an issue, I ask why. Spacing is adjustable to make room for this, using the beat chart for one thing. Well, adjusting the beat chart is more work than it is worth, imo. If you are not bothered by the spacing problems, then that's fine for you. I am. Creating two measures on entry is less complicated than changing the beat chart, I find. Besides, once you have created the two measures and adjusted the measure nos this will not be messed up by respacing, ie on part extraction (another reason not to use shapes or lines). Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On 21.01.2004 3:03 Uhr, Mark D Lew wrote For another, I should think it wouldn't be too hard to set up the barline as either a note expression or an articulation in such a way that Finale's spacing algorithm treats it properly (with the appropriate feature checked under Music Spacing Options). What about respacing stave (where the barline shows in between groups), part extraction etc.? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On Jan 21, 2004, at 2:38 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: What about respacing stave (where the barline shows in between groups), part extraction etc.? I dunno. I always do separate measures, like you do. I was just suggesting an alternative to the beat chart for the other guy. mdl ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
A statement such as If you are not bothered by the spacing problems, then that's fine for you. I am. is uncalled for. What kind of engraver would not be bothered by spacing problems? But who says that the remedy to spacing problems is your solution only? It stands without question that if a spacing problem were encountered it would indeed be remedied, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. If I choose another and it works by all relevant criteria, what is the problem? Richard --- Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 21.01.2004 1:37 Uhr, Richard Huggins wrote Below would be my choice as well. As for the objection that it can't be used if correct spacing were an issue, I ask why. Spacing is adjustable to make room for this, using the beat chart for one thing. Well, adjusting the beat chart is more work than it is worth, imo. If you are not bothered by the spacing problems, then that's fine for you. I am. Creating two measures on entry is less complicated than changing the beat chart, I find. Besides, once you have created the two measures and adjusted the measure nos this will not be messed up by respacing, ie on part extraction (another reason not to use shapes or lines). Johannes __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
You may draw two lines with the Smart Shape tool and then copy all the shapes to all the bars. The barline is also available as an articulation. I'm editing an early 19th Century concerted choral work, and about midway thru the piece there is a change of tempo on the 4th beat of a measure (quarter note on beat one, quarter rest on beat two, quarter rest of beat three with a fermata, followed by a thin double bar, then a quarter note on the fourth beat which initiates the new allegro tempo and a fugue). Is there some command in Finale Mac 3k that will allow me to do this, or do I have to create two separate measures out of the one in 4/4 time and then hide the time signature in the second measure of 1/4? Thanks, Martin Martin Banner Monticello, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On 21.01.2004 15:34 Uhr, Richard Huggins wrote A statement such as If you are not bothered by the spacing problems, then that's fine for you. I am. is uncalled for. What kind of engraver would not be bothered by spacing problems? But who says that the remedy to spacing problems is your solution only? It stands without question that if a spacing problem were encountered it would indeed be remedied, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. If I choose another and it works by all relevant criteria, what is the problem? Firstly you seem offended. That was not my intention at all. Secondly, your suggestion of altering the beat chart by hand _can_ give you perfect spacing, _but_ to get perfect spacing it is far too much work. If you are concerned about the spacing as much as I am then you would almost certainly come to this conclusion, too. Time is a relevant criteria. Thirdly, your solution is a very fragile one, as soon as you do any major changes to layout, spacing parameters, staff spacing etc, or you extract parts, you end up having to do all of that again. All I am saying is that creating graphic barlines by hand is working against the program, and is bound to cause trouble in the future. I do not recommend ever doing this. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
At 11:38 AM 1/21/04 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Well, adjusting the beat chart is more work than it is worth, imo. If you are not bothered by the spacing problems, then that's fine for you. I am. Creating two measures on entry is less complicated than changing the beat chart, I find. The problem is that this shows up correctly on paper, but does not transfer correctly to a Midi file. The mid-measure bar is only a visual element. By breaking it into two measures, you have made something that will not import properly into a sequencer for further work. That's why I always prefer to deal with manual spacing if it keeps the music mechanically accurate. For me, the fewer musical workarounds, the better. And that's also why Finale's failure to deal with the staggered barline and fully independent staves has been a thorn for many years -- not that even Midi can handle this situation, at least version 1 (which we've been using for over two decades!). Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
Sorry for my over-reaction. That's what happens when you reply after short and intermittent sleep. Suffice it to say that it should be considered a given that a spacing issue will be addressed by a competent engraver, it's only a matter of which approach is used. Hopefully we can agree that as regards approaches to spacing issues or for that matter as regards a mid-measure double line there's more than one approach (and probably more thn one opinion about whether something is too much work or not), and various factors pertaining to the specific project can affect which approach is chosen. --Richard From: Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Firstly you seem offended. That was not my intention at all. Secondly, your suggestion of altering the beat chart by hand _can_ give you perfect spacing, _but_ to get perfect spacing it is far too much work. If you are concerned about the spacing as much as I am then you would almost certainly come to this conclusion, too. Time is a relevant criteria. Thirdly, your solution is a very fragile one, as soon as you do any major changes to layout, spacing parameters, staff spacing etc, or you extract parts, you end up having to do all of that again. All I am saying is that creating graphic barlines by hand is working against the program, and is bound to cause trouble in the future. I do not recommend ever doing this. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On 20.01.2004 21:59 Uhr, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Is there some command in Finale Mac 3k that will allow me to do this, or do I have to create two separate measures out of the one in 4/4 time and then hide the time signature in the second measure of 1/4? This is the way to do it in Finale. First measure should be 3/4, second 1/4, and you will have to adjust the measure numbers as well. I wished there was a plugin, which could do the work automatically. Ie, you enter the measure as though there wasn't a double bar, select it, call the plugin, tell it divide measure after 3rd beat and then it would split the measure and adjust the measure number regions (ie split the region). This would be good for mid-measure repeats as well. Oh, and while we are on about plugins: is Jari still around? I am wondering whether you are planning on bringing some of your plugins to OS X? Some of them have become redundant, I guess, but I'd love to get the Time Sig plugin (and if you do it, there is a bug in there). Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
The best way is to make the two measures, making a 3/4 measure and a 1/4 measure and hiding both time signatures. You'll have to adjust your measure numbers, if you're using them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm editing an early 19th Century concerted choral work, and about midway thru the piece there is a change of tempo on the 4th beat of a measure (quarter note on beat one, quarter rest on beat two, quarter rest of beat three with a fermata, followed by a thin double bar, then a quarter note on the fourth beat which initiates the new allegro tempo and a fugue). Is there some command in Finale Mac 3k that will allow me to do this, or do I have to create two separate measures out of the one in 4/4 time and then hide the time signature in the second measure of 1/4? Thanks, Martin Martin Banner Monticello, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale . -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
Martin wrote: I'm editing an early 19th Century concerted choral work, and about midway thru the piece there is a change of tempo on the 4th beat of a measure (quarter note on beat one, quarter rest on beat two, quarter rest of beat three with a fermata, followed by a thin double bar, then a quarter note on the fourth beat which initiates the new allegro tempo and a fugue). Is there some command in Finale Mac 3k that will allow me to do this, or do I have to create two separate measures out of the one in 4/4 time and then hide the time signature in the second measure of 1/4? You don't need to hide any time signatures, if you specify for the two measures that you want the time signature to be 3/4 display as 4/4 and 1/4 display as 4/4, which is the way I sometimes do this, particularly if measure number values don't matter, and I need the 1/4 measure as the target for a repeat. However, if measure numbers matter, and I don't need the target, I have also used the shape designer to create a shape expression which looks just like a double bar line, and use that, instead. ns ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On Jan 20, 2004, at 12:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there some command in Finale Mac 3k that will allow me to do this, or do I have to create two separate measures out of the one in 4/4 time and then hide the time signature in the second measure of 1/4? That's how I do it -- assuming that by hiding the 1/4 you mean setting the measure to display as 4/4. Also, don't forget to adjust your measure numbers accordingly. I suppose someone might put together a plug-in (or script??) to do bundle these tasks together. mdl ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On 20.01.2004 23:37 Uhr, Noel Stoutenburg wrote However, if measure numbers matter, and I don't need the target, I have also used the shape designer to create a shape expression which looks just like a double bar line, and use that, instead. But if you are concerned about correct spacing this is not really an option. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
Below would be my choice as well. As for the objection that it can't be used if correct spacing were an issue, I ask why. Spacing is adjustable to make room for this, using the beat chart for one thing. Not even the shape designer would be absolutely needed. Select the line tool from the smart shapes pallette, start at the top of the stave, hold the shift key down and draw two lines downward. The handle on either line can be used to space it relative to the other line and both handles can be used to move them in tandem left or right as desired. --Richard From: Noel Stoutenburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, if measure numbers matter, and I don't need the target, I have also used the shape designer to create a shape expression which looks just like a double bar line, and use that, instead. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Creating mid-measure double bar line
On Jan 20, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Richard Huggins wrote: Below would be my choice as well. As for the objection that it can't be used if correct spacing were an issue, I ask why. Spacing is adjustable to make room for this, using the beat chart for one thing. For another, I should think it wouldn't be too hard to set up the barline as either a note expression or an articulation in such a way that Finale's spacing algorithm treats it properly (with the appropriate feature checked under Music Spacing Options). mdl ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
