Re: [Finale] Deleting unused lyrics

[David W. Fenton]

On 27 Feb 2008 at 21:40, dc wrote:

> David W. Fenton écrit:
> >I'm making some quick-and-dirty viol parts and re-using each file as
> >a template (I'm doing the parts to fix the clefs, because the music
> >is all viols and voices, so the parts are in inappropriate clefs for
> >viols). I started from an older piece with lyrics and then added
> >lyrics in the new piece, but forgot to delete the old lyrics before
> >adding new ones.
> >
> >Is it possible to delete the old lyrics without screwing up the new
> >ones?
> 
> With Martin's nifty plug-in it is

Unfortunately, his plugin doesn't appear to work with Finale 2003, 
which is the last version I have. Another (among numerous) reason(s) 
to upgrade.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/



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[Finale] How to use suffixes in Chord Tool as Graphics

[Randolph Peters]

I've finally gotten around to posting a Finale file (version 2007) 
and a pdf of the same page. This file shows how you can use suffixes 
in the Chord Tool to build all kinds of shapes. The advantages over 
the Graphic Tool include the fact that placement is precise and the 
results are consistent.


You can get the demonstration files here:

http://homepage.mac.com/randolphpeters2/FileSharing9.html

In order to see the Finale file properly, you will need the Toccata, 
Fughetta, Zapf Dingbats and Palatino fonts. Feel free to copy my 
shapes and modify them for your own use. Even if you don't like my 
winged brackets, the file at least shows you how it is done.


Here's how you do it:

1) Select Chord Tool.
2) Use Manual Input, turn OFF the other options including Substitute 
Symbols, Enable Playback and so on.
3) Click on a note that you want to attach your shape. (My winged 
bracket start is attached to the first note or invisible rest and my 
winged bracket end is attached to the last note in the pattern.)
4) The Chord Definition dialog should pop up. Open "Show Advanced" 
and deselect the Play items as well as deselect Show Root, Fretboard 
or Alternate Root.
5) Near the bottom you will see Definition; Suffix; ID: Select... 
(Click Select...)

6) A new dialog box opens called Chord Suffix Selection. Choose Create...
7) Another dialog box opens called Chord Suffix Editor.
* Choose a font and size, click Symbol..., pick the character you 
want [You can pick the character with the mouse. You don't need to 
know the key code for it as some on the list have reported.]
*Drag the character to where you want it or enter numbers in the 
horizontal and vertical offsets.
* Click Next to choose the next character you want. This can be from 
a different font or different size. Drag it to where you want (or 
enter numbers).

*Keep repeating these steps until you've got the shape you want.

8) Once you've built up your suffix shapes in the chord tool, you can 
save them to a library, import them into other files and you can 
assign metatools to them.


*

The extender line with arrow that comes out of the Mobile is a thick 
custom line with a custom arrow from Zapf Dingbats. I like custom 
lines because they automatically break over system breaks.


I hope this long explanation makes sense. If you experiment with it 
yourself I'm sure you can see the possibilities.


Another way to get the same shapes would be to design them in a Font 
building program, but that's a topic for another day.


-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[shirling & neueweise]

I just tried, but I got weird missing bar line:



might have something to do with staff style settings overriding staff 
group settings; you can also apply a staff style set up to only NOT 
break staff group barlines


why would you put the arrow over the repeated bar?  in new music i 
have always seen the arrow in the middle of the staff touching the 
thick part of the right repeat bar and extending through ALL measures 
in which the pattern is repeated (regardless of whether pattern 
respects time sigs or not) with all default whole rests hidden in the 
region.  the right arrowhead is placed to align with the end of the 
appropriate measure or rhythmic indication


an arrow over music typically indicates a transition from one state 
to another, the beginning and end being indicated with written out 
notes; i am not familiar with jazz notation, so maybe this is normal, 
but it is not for me anywhere as clear as an arrow through the 
measures.  a bit sloppy, but here's what i mean:

http://newmusicnotation.com/TEMPFILES/repeats.pdf

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[Finale] Mobiles; Was: Inf Loop

[Randolph Peters]

Darcy James Argue wrote:
There's a actually a much better way to get repeats on some staves 
but not others -- create the repeat as usual, and then hide the 
repeat on selected staves as needed using a Staff Style.


My trick using the Chord Tool to fake repeats is designed more for 
aleatoric or partially aleatoric music. We used to call them 
"mobiles" although I haven't heard anyone use that term lately. I'll 
be posting an example soon.


Sometimes you want a player or grouping to ad lib on a motif or 
rhythm or whatever. That motif is either smaller or larger than a 
regular measure that others are playing so the brackets have to be 
moveable to places besides bar lines. (I know that you can hide bar 
lines and time signatures if necessary, but you get my point.)


Lutoslawski used this "controlled" aleatoric technique extensively, 
although his notation is different than what I like to use. Mobiles 
are one way to achieve complex textures without the notation being 
terribly complex. A composer can make them tightly controlled or 
freely improvisatory. They don't make you sound like you are writing 
music from the 60s unless you want them to sound that way.


I wish more music teachers would include this kind of thing in their 
lessons. Classical music (and the teaching of it) became more 
impoverished when it tried to eliminate improvisation in its various 
forms. There are signs that it might be making a comeback, however...


-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[Christopher Smith]

Ohhh, you genius!

Nice catch.

Christopher


On 28-Feb-08, at 12:33 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:


Hi Chris, Hiro,

There's a actually a much better way to get repeats on some staves  
but not others -- create the repeat as usual, and then hide the  
repeat on selected staves as needed using a Staff Style.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 28 Feb 2008, at 7:02 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:


Because Finale will only let you do a vamp in ALL parts at once.  
If he wants a repeating loop while other things go on in other  
parts (perhaps not coordinated in rhythm) then you have to put the  
repeat in as an expression of some sort. The arrow would have to  
be a Smart Shape, I would think, to avoid redoing it in the  
extracted parts (linked parts would probably break it).




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RE: [Finale] Inf Loop

[Richard Yates]

 
It does not do that if the staff is not the bottom one in the system:

http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/repeats.jpg

>> I just tried, but I got weird missing bar line:
>> 
>> What did I do wrong?
>> - Hiro

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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[Darcy James Argue]

Hi Hiro,

That's very weird -- I have not seen that behavior before. I suppose  
if you can't find any other way around it you could fake the missing  
barline with a shape expression line.


Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 28 Feb 2008, at 1:04 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:


Darcy James Argue / 08.2.28 / 0:33 PM wrote:

There's a actually a much better way to get repeats on some staves  
but

not others -- create the repeat as usual, and then hide the repeat on
selected staves as needed using a Staff Style.


You are brilliant!
Thank you!

I just tried, but I got weird missing bar line:

What did I do wrong?

--

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[A-NO-NE Music]

Darcy James Argue / 08.2.28 / 0:33 PM wrote:

>There's a actually a much better way to get repeats on some staves but  
>not others -- create the repeat as usual, and then hide the repeat on  
>selected staves as needed using a Staff Style.

You are brilliant!
Thank you!

I just tried, but I got weird missing bar line:

What did I do wrong?

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 



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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[Darcy James Argue]

Hi Chris, Hiro,

There's a actually a much better way to get repeats on some staves but  
not others -- create the repeat as usual, and then hide the repeat on  
selected staves as needed using a Staff Style.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 28 Feb 2008, at 7:02 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:


Because Finale will only let you do a vamp in ALL parts at once. If  
he wants a repeating loop while other things go on in other parts  
(perhaps not coordinated in rhythm) then you have to put the repeat  
in as an expression of some sort. The arrow would have to be a Smart  
Shape, I would think, to avoid redoing it in the extracted parts  
(linked parts would probably break it).

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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[Christopher Smith]

On Feb 28, 2008, at 5:16 AM, dhbailey wrote:


A-NO-NE Music wrote:

This is kinda yet another graphic problem.  I am currently on
FinMac2008a on OSX10.5.2.
I often write a pattern for an instrument,
place repeat signs graphically to bracket the pattern,
then draw an arrow to the right to indicate infinity loop till cue.
This used to work very well back in Fin3.7-FinMac97 days but not
anymore.  Shape designer gives totally unexpected results, like the
object I created appears in a wrong place with handle misplaced  
far from
I clicked.  And it is almost impossible to align it to where I  
want to.

EPS import from Illustrator CS3 gives weird white block background to
cover music if I used Maestro font.  TIF import is better but, again,
placing and resizing will never work especially zooming won't work  
with
these imported images.  I can only resize in Shape Designer  
(correct?)

but it jumps all over the places when I touch it.  Trial and error,
trial and error.  Frustrating.
Is there any better way?



Why do you need a graphic?  Why not just use the good old Broadway  
show staple "Vamp till ready" or create a text block using a font  
which has arrows in it to place the right-pointing you want?


Because Finale will only let you do a vamp in ALL parts at once. If  
he wants a repeating loop while other things go on in other parts  
(perhaps not coordinated in rhythm) then you have to put the repeat  
in as an expression of some sort. The arrow would have to be a Smart  
Shape, I would think, to avoid redoing it in the extracted parts  
(linked parts would probably break it).


Hiro had posted a link; it was very clear what he needed in the link.

christopher


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Re: [Finale] TAN: Henle-style beams in Sibelius?

[Darcy James Argue]

No. I mean, I guess it helps a little (I haven't tried it with "Avoid  
simple wedges" off), but the results are in no way comparable to the  
results you get using the Henle-like settings in Patterson Beams.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 28 Feb 2008, at 5:05 AM, dc wrote:


Andrew Moschou écrit:

All I know about Henle's beams is that they rarely slant more
than a space and minimise the occurrences of staff lines between  
beams.


Well, what happens if you tick the "Avoid simple wedges" box?  
Doesn't that help give Henle-like results?


Dennis



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Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura

[dhbailey]

Ray Horton wrote:
I read somewhere that Respighi had some instruments made for the piece, 
but I don't know where I read it.  The parts (3 pairs, sop, alto, 
ten/bass) say something like "Buccina (flicorno basso)" etc.  I believe 
the alto parts do give flugelhorn in parenthesis. The parts are usually 
played on trumpets and trombones, sometimes with flugel in the middle.  
I assume trombones on the lower parts because players are easier to find 
and projection is easier than with valve instruments.


The nightingale sound in the third movement specified a certain 78 RPM 
record of the day (now on CD).


I'm sorry I got fairly defensive on the scordatura issue.  I didn't know 
why people seemed to be blaming me for reporting and interpreting what 
string professionals told me on the subject.  It seems like people 

[snip]

I, too,  was surprised that people were shooting the messenger.  It's 
not as if trombonists are afraid of scordatura string parts.  ;-)




--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] TAN: Henle-style beams in Sibelius?

[Andrew Moschou]

It will certainly help, but it's not all that is required for Henle style
beams.

Andrew


Well, what happens if you tick the "Avoid simple wedges" box? Doesn't that
> help give Henle-like results?
>
> Dennis
>
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Re: [Finale] TAN: Henle-style beams in Sibelius?

[Trent Johnston]

I've used these settings which look ok.

Trent


- Original Message - 
From: "dc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN: Henle-style beams in Sibelius?



Andrew Moschou écrit:

All I know about Henle's beams is that they rarely slant more
than a space and minimise the occurrences of staff lines between beams.


Well, what happens if you tick the "Avoid simple wedges" box? Doesn't that 
help give Henle-like results?


Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Inf Loop

[dhbailey]

A-NO-NE Music wrote:

This is kinda yet another graphic problem.  I am currently on
FinMac2008a on OSX10.5.2.

I often write a pattern for an instrument,
place repeat signs graphically to bracket the pattern,
then draw an arrow to the right to indicate infinity loop till cue.

This used to work very well back in Fin3.7-FinMac97 days but not
anymore.  Shape designer gives totally unexpected results, like the
object I created appears in a wrong place with handle misplaced far from
I clicked.  And it is almost impossible to align it to where I want to.

EPS import from Illustrator CS3 gives weird white block background to
cover music if I used Maestro font.  TIF import is better but, again,
placing and resizing will never work especially zooming won't work with
these imported images.  I can only resize in Shape Designer (correct?)
but it jumps all over the places when I touch it.  Trial and error,
trial and error.  Frustrating.

Is there any better way?




Why do you need a graphic?  Why not just use the good old Broadway show 
staple "Vamp till ready" or create a text block using a font which has 
arrows in it to place the right-pointing you want?


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura

[dhbailey]

John Howell wrote:

At 6:07 AM -0500 2/27/08, dhbailey wrote:


Interesting, if they're supposed to detune their lowest string by a 
semitone, how do you feel about modern basses playing the part with 
the extension on the low string?  It would certainly be a different 
tone than a detuned string on a traditional bass, wouldn't it?


Well, don't the extensions actually fret the string mechanically? (No, 
I've never actually look at one up close.)  If so, you'd still have the 
open string quality, and of course you'd have the pitch. What you 
wouldn't have would be the slight change in string tension, which might 
or might not be audible, and which R. probably did NOT make the basis of 
his request.


As David pointed out, bass gamba players routinely tune their low D 
strings down to C when necessary, just as classical guitarists often 
tune their low E down to D, all without damaging the instruments or even 
changing the pitch of the other strings.  This is not rocket science!


John





Yes, a half-step on a single string shouldn't create any havoc on most 
string instruments or result in moving bridges or destabilization which 
needs a week or more to regain.


however, more drastic scordatura, possibly involving all strings, or as 
was mentioned in one piece detuning to where the bridge falls over is 
quite a different animal which could easily antagonize many string players.


--
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] TAN: Henle-style beams in Sibelius?

[Andrew Moschou]

I'm a Sibelius user, I've subscribed to this list for curiosity about
Finale. In House Style > Engraving Rules... > Beams and Stems there are
options to change beam angles, screen shot attached for Sibelius 4, there
have been no changes to this section in Sibelius 5. Without a plug-in, your
best bet would be to adjust the values until they're as close as possible to
Henle's. A Sibelius plug-in is able to change stem length (hence beam
angle), stem length can be expressed as an offset from the default length,
but the absolute stem length is not exposed to ManuScript (Sibelius' plug-in
language). All I know about Henle's beams is that they rarely slant more
than a space and minimise the occurrences of staff lines between beams.. If
given rules about how Henle style beams are calculated and if Sibelius' beam
angle algorithm is deduced, it would be possible to write a plug-in to apply
Henle style beams. The task would be easier if absolute stem lengths can be
determined, but that is not possible at the moment.

Andrew

On 28/02/2008, Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 28.02.2008 Darcy James Argue wrote:
> > Anyone found any good settings for getting Henle-style beams in Sib 5.1?
> >
> > (Probably best asked over at the Sibelius list, I know, but... )
>
>
> If you find an answer there, please let us know here, too.
>
> Johannes
>
> --
> http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
> http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
>
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