Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
On Dec 30, 2011, at 12:06 PM, John Howell wrote: > At 10:02 AM -0800 12/30/11, TXSTNR POP account wrote: >> I just worked on a chart in which the composer >> (a guitar player) wrote E7(add2). I'd call that >> E9, but the guitar player said that he would put >> the 9th in a top voice in my case, and an inner >> voice in his. I argued that the chord symbol is >> not meant to indicate voicings, only the notes >> to be played. > > > That used to be the case sometimes but not all > the time. In fact when you go back to the '30s > and '40s the chord symbols (or guitar or uke > boxes) quite often ignore the bass note and give > only the "right-hand chords." Richard Rodgers > did that all the time. And even those that Rodgers chose missed normal (and better) functional harmony choices that jazz musicians routinely improve. There's not so much to do with Porter's harmonies, but no one I know with any taste uses the harmonies that Rodgers published. > That changed further in the '60s, with the advent > of fractional chord symbols to indicate a bass > note. And the (add 2) chord (but usually without > the 7th) was a very prominent chord in a great > deal of Contemporary Christian music in the late > '80s and '90s, and was an entirely different > voicing and SOUND from the jazz 9th chord. Agreed. There's a lot of avoidance of harmonic conflict and resolution in that music. A minimum of propulsion. Few tritones - like these sentences, no verbs! > > This may be more a difference between commercial > use and jazz use than anything else. Or not. > I'm not sure. I think it's a different cultural period. Contemporary popular music is severely harmonically (and somewhat rhythmically) impoverished compared to what was developing through the first half of the 20th century. There are socio-cultural explanations for that, none of which make me happy. It has diminished the audience for what is meaningful to me. I cannot be expressive in the impoverished language of the music that has been popular in the last 45 years. > >> On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: >> >>> You want a specific voicing - it's most >>> efficient to write it out in notation, there's >>> less to decode. Otherwise, write a chord >>> symbol and leave it up to the player. >>> Sometimes they do things better than you >>> imagined possible, sometimes not. That's the >>> risk - and the thrill. And I believe it's >>> always been that way. Notation is never >>> complete. >>> > > Amen to that!!! A study of the history of > notation demolishes any claim that EVERYTHING can > be put on the page. > Not in written verbal language either. It's all a script for a drama that unfolds in our imagination - an imagination stimulated by the memory of how the words have sounded in expressive speech. Read a Shakespeare play and then see it performed. Same difference. Notation is shorthand, and there are always choices to be made about how much to include. Elliot Carter puts in so much that his music can hardly be read. It needs deciphering, but it is well explained by his notation. I occupy a middle ground - more detail that most jazz writers, but nothing like Carter. Other writers I know count on traditional interpretation by experienced players who abide by agreed upon conventions. They don't have to write as much. Since leaving New York, I have had to be more specific, and I am still somewhat frustrated that the things I grew up "knowing" - things I consider normal interpretive conventions, are unknown and of little importance to many professional players outside of New York. Even when I take the trouble to mark them in some detail, notes are played shapelessly - filled from beginning to end like sausages, no attack, no nuance. Even such a brilliant musician as Wynton Marsalis plays with less attack and expression applied to individual notes than the players I grew up among. This is partly a result of the mechanization of music. I use Garritan sounds to check my writing, and I get used to the monotony. Contemporary popular dance moves are designed to look like machines - amusing for a moment, but quickly unsatisfying to me. Monotony - mostly all loud and rather static (even when bombastic) is the present day esthetic. I'll stop ranting, but I cannot buy in to this. Chuck > John > > > -- > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > Virginia Tech Department of Music > School of Performing Arts & Cinema > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html > > "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." > (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http:/
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
At 10:02 AM -0800 12/30/11, TXSTNR POP account wrote: >I just worked on a chart in which the composer >(a guitar player) wrote E7(add2). I'd call that >E9, but the guitar player said that he would put >the 9th in a top voice in my case, and an inner >voice in his. I argued that the chord symbol is >not meant to indicate voicings, only the notes >to be played. That used to be the case sometimes but not all the time. In fact when you go back to the '30s and '40s the chord symbols (or guitar or uke boxes) quite often ignore the bass note and give only the "right-hand chords." Richard Rodgers did that all the time. That changed further in the '60s, with the advent of fractional chord symbols to indicate a bass note. And the (add 2) chord (but usually without the 7th) was a very prominent chord in a great deal of Contemporary Christian music in the late '80s and '90s, and was an entirely different voicing and SOUND from the jazz 9th chord. This may be more a difference between commercial use and jazz use than anything else. Or not. I'm not sure. >On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: > >> You want a specific voicing - it's most >>efficient to write it out in notation, there's >>less to decode. Otherwise, write a chord >>symbol and leave it up to the player. >>Sometimes they do things better than you >>imagined possible, sometimes not. That's the >>risk - and the thrill. And I believe it's >>always been that way. Notation is never >>complete. >> Amen to that!!! A study of the history of notation demolishes any claim that EVERYTHING can be put on the page. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music School of Performing Arts & Cinema College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] systems spacing
You have accessed the "page layout" tool, "systems"/"edit margins" and set the distance between systems to 0 (for the two systems in question) and entered a smaller number for the bottom margin? Dalvin Boone -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of John Blane Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 8:20 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] systems spacing You should start by UNchecking "Avoid Margin Collisions" in the Page Layout menu. On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Tracy Keenan wrote: > I am editing a piece with 6 staves per system and the staff tool options seem to be very limited. I end up with large unusable space between the two systems on an occasional page, and there is text that needs to be inserted at the bottom of the page. Any tips on getting an incorrigible system to move up? Could something be locked? I have scoured the manual, but nothing is turning up. > Thanks! Tracy > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale John Blane Blane Music Preparation 1649 Huntington Ln. Highland Park, IL 60035 847 579-9900 847 579-9903 fax www.BlaneMusic.com j...@blanemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] systems spacing
Try Page Layout Menu>Space staff systems evenly. You can also drag systems around by clicking and dragging while in the Page Layout tool. On the subject of text, make sure you are using the right tool and the right settings for the text box (if it IS the text tool) or you will have nothing but frustration later. Christopher On 30-Dec-11, at 30-Dec-11 8:16 PM, Tracy Keenan wrote: > I am editing a piece with 6 staves per system and the staff tool > options seem to be very limited. I end up with large unusable > space between the two systems on an occasional page, and there is > text that needs to be inserted at the bottom of the page. Any tips > on getting an incorrigible system to move up? Could something be > locked? I have scoured the manual, but nothing is turning up. > Thanks! Tracy > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] systems spacing
You should start by UNchecking "Avoid Margin Collisions" in the Page Layout menu. On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Tracy Keenan wrote: > I am editing a piece with 6 staves per system and the staff tool options seem > to be very limited. I end up with large unusable space between the two > systems on an occasional page, and there is text that needs to be inserted at > the bottom of the page. Any tips on getting an incorrigible system to move > up? Could something be locked? I have scoured the manual, but nothing is > turning up. > Thanks! Tracy > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale John Blane Blane Music Preparation 1649 Huntington Ln. Highland Park, IL 60035 847 579-9900 847 579-9903 fax www.BlaneMusic.com j...@blanemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] systems spacing
I am editing a piece with 6 staves per system and the staff tool options seem to be very limited. I end up with large unusable space between the two systems on an occasional page, and there is text that needs to be inserted at the bottom of the page. Any tips on getting an incorrigible system to move up? Could something be locked? I have scoured the manual, but nothing is turning up. Thanks! Tracy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text handles
Thank you, Christopher. It worked! On Dec 30, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > There are a whole lot of ways to get text into a Finale file. Are you SURE it > was the text tool that created it? Might it be an expression, a repeat tool > text, a lyric, a chord symbol, or even an articulation? > > The way to know for sure is the Selection Tool (press Escape for the keyboard > shortcut to change to it). Click the text in question once and you should be > able to move it or delete it; click twice and the tool that created it will > automatically be selected, as will the item itself. > > Christopher > > > On Fri Dec 30, at FridayDec 30 5:33 PM, Tracy Keenan wrote: > >> I am trying to move text, but the handles that appear when I open that tool >> are no where near the text, and double clicking the handles that DO appear >> do not seem to apply to any give text. Does anyone know how to deal with >> wayward text handles? >> Thanks. >> Tracy > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] metronome markings
Did you not get my answer to this already? Don't use the Text tool, use an Expression, and you can type them right in. Create a Measure expression "q=120" and then select the "q" only and change the font to Maestro (or Engraver, or whatever your music font is) at 28 points size, in the Text menu. Select the Playback tab and select Tempo, then Quarter Note, then set to value 120. Okay your way back to the score. Now, this will cause the measure you attach this to to playback at 120 BPM. Getting a playback accelerando over 8 bars ending at this measure will require the MIDI tool most likely, and I don't know how to use that. I generally throw my hands up with questions related to playback, because if it doesn't do it properly the first time, I usually export the MIDI from Finale and into a sequencer, and do it there. Christopher On Fri Dec 30, at FridayDec 30 3:59 PM, trumpe...@verizon.net wrote: > > Hello--can someone please help me. > I want to have an accelerando in the playback over 8 measures. I can create > a quarter note in the Text Designer but cannot create an equals sign. It's > telling me with num lock on press and hold alt, then 0200. Nothing I do > works. > Finale 2007 for windows---thanks in advance > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text handles
There are a whole lot of ways to get text into a Finale file. Are you SURE it was the text tool that created it? Might it be an expression, a repeat tool text, a lyric, a chord symbol, or even an articulation? The way to know for sure is the Selection Tool (press Escape for the keyboard shortcut to change to it). Click the text in question once and you should be able to move it or delete it; click twice and the tool that created it will automatically be selected, as will the item itself. Christopher On Fri Dec 30, at FridayDec 30 5:33 PM, Tracy Keenan wrote: > I am trying to move text, but the handles that appear when I open that tool > are no where near the text, and double clicking the handles that DO appear do > not seem to apply to any give text. Does anyone know how to deal with > wayward text handles? > Thanks. > Tracy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
I have also experienced a couple of returned emails in the past several days. HAPPY NEW YEAR! Michael mmathew_musicp...@yahoo.com http://www.musicengravers.com/cgi-bin/engravers.pl http://oregonmts.com/mathew/ > > From: Lawrence Yates >To: finale@shsu.edu >Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 1:10 PM >Subject: [Finale] test - please respond > >Hi, > >Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. > >Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message has got >through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un-deliverable >and two others have not appeared. > >Thanks, > >Lawrence > >-- >Lawrenceyates.co.uk >___ >Finale mailing list >Finale@shsu.edu >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Text handles
I am trying to move text, but the handles that appear when I open that tool are no where near the text, and double clicking the handles that DO appear do not seem to apply to any give text. Does anyone know how to deal with wayward text handles? Thanks. Tracy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] metronome markings
Hello--can someone please help me. I want to have an accelerando in the playback over 8 measures. I can create a quarter note in the Text Designer but cannot create an equals sign. It's telling me with num lock on press and hold alt, then 0200. Nothing I do works. Finale 2007 for windows---thanks in advance ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
H, Lawrence--.I received this fine. Bob Morabito On Dec 30, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Yates wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. > > Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message > has got > through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un- > deliverable > and two others have not appeared. > > Thanks, > > Lawrence > > -- > Lawrenceyates.co.uk > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
Shall we all pile on? :) Dennis On Fri, December 30, 2011 4:10 pm, Lawrence Yates wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. > > Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message has got > through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un-deliverable > and two others have not appeared. > > Thanks, > > Lawrence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
At 9:10 PM + 12/30/11, Lawrence Yates wrote: >Hi, > >Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. > >Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message has got >through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un-deliverable >and two others have not appeared. > >Thanks, > >Lawrence Got it. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music School of Performing Arts & Cinema College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
Lawrence Yates wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. > > Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message has got > through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un-deliverable > and two others have not appeared. > > Thanks, > > Lawrence > Please state the nature of the musical emergency :) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
Through ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
Thank you. Lawrence On 30 December 2011 21:13, Giovanni Andreani wrote: > I can see it. > > G > -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] test - please respond
I can see it. Giovanni Andreani On 30 Dec 2011, at 22:10, Lawrence Yates wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. > > Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message has got > through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un-deliverable > and two others have not appeared. > > Thanks, > > Lawrence > > -- > Lawrenceyates.co.uk > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] test - please respond
Hi, Sorry to do this but I suspect I have a problem. Could one person please reply publicly to confirm that this message has got through to the list. I have had two messages returned as un-deliverable and two others have not appeared. Thanks, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Smart Page Turns
Hi Folks, Could anyone please offer some help with Smart Page Turns. Unless I'm on the full score page this option is greyed out. When I try to apply it on the full score page it tells me that since there are fewer than three systems, it cannot proceed. WinFin2012 The manual offers me no help at all on this one. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
You nudged some areas in my gray matter Chuck. I'd forgotten how many times I've written something simple like a chord symbol and the player made it better than I expected. Grant Geismann used to that all the time during many recording sessions back in the 90s. He really spoiled us at times because he always brought something unexpected and creative to the process. J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: > You want a specific voicing - it's most efficient to write it out in > notation, there's less to decode. Otherwise, write a chord symbol and leave > it up to the player. Sometimes they do things better than you imagined > possible, sometimes not. That's the risk - and the thrill. And I believe > it's always been that way. Notation is never complete. > > And I disagree with the suggestion that "add 2" has voicing implications. In > my experience, it simply means a major triad with an added 2nd degree > somewhere in the voicing - anywhere except in the bass. > > Chuck > > On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:39 AM, J D Thomas wrote: > >> There are some chord symbols that try to approach a specific voicing >> scenario. Like Am7/D or C/D to avoid the conflict between the 3rd and the >> 11th. And most of the time they work pretty well. But overall, chord >> symbols are pretty inexact, leaving it up to the player to decide how to >> voice it. Obviously that can result in a mixed bag of results depending on >> the player. >> >> I've tried it both ways over the years, depending on how anal my overall >> intent was. If I really needed something specific, I spelled it out >> somehow, either via a specific albeit odd chord symbol, or I just wrote the >> voicings out. But the system can still allow a large margin of >> dissatisfaction at times, especially if you don't know the ability of the >> players involved. >> >> J D Thomas >> ThomaStudios >> >> On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:02 AM, TXSTNR POP account wrote: >> >>> I just worked on a chart in which the composer (a guitar player) wrote >>> E7(add2). I'd call that E9, but the guitar player said that he would put >>> the 9th in a top voice in my case, and an inner voice in his. I argued >>> that the chord symbol is not meant to indicate voicings, only the notes to >>> be played. In your case I suppose you could write E7(add6) if you really >>> don't want the 9th to sound, but if that's not an issue, just write E13 and >>> be done with it. >>> >>> On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:45 AM, J D Thomas wrote: >>> Is the chord supported by another tension note, like a 9th or b9? E13 for the first case, E13b9 if the 2nd. If not, is the 13th, C#, a predominant note or just a passing note? J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Another question for the accumulated jazz wizdom of this list. I need to > indicate an E dominant 7 chord with the 6th (or if you prefer, 13th) > added. > None of the suffixes in the default list jumps out me as the right one. > What > should it be? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >>> Lon Price >>> lonpr...@txstnr.com >>> http://www.txstnr.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Chuck Israels > 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 > Portland, OR 97209-316 > > land line: (971) 255-1167 > cell phone: (360) 201-3434 > > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
You want a specific voicing - it's most efficient to write it out in notation, there's less to decode. Otherwise, write a chord symbol and leave it up to the player. Sometimes they do things better than you imagined possible, sometimes not. That's the risk - and the thrill. And I believe it's always been that way. Notation is never complete. And I disagree with the suggestion that "add 2" has voicing implications. In my experience, it simply means a major triad with an added 2nd degree somewhere in the voicing - anywhere except in the bass. Chuck On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:39 AM, J D Thomas wrote: > There are some chord symbols that try to approach a specific voicing > scenario. Like Am7/D or C/D to avoid the conflict between the 3rd and the > 11th. And most of the time they work pretty well. But overall, chord > symbols are pretty inexact, leaving it up to the player to decide how to > voice it. Obviously that can result in a mixed bag of results depending on > the player. > > I've tried it both ways over the years, depending on how anal my overall > intent was. If I really needed something specific, I spelled it out somehow, > either via a specific albeit odd chord symbol, or I just wrote the voicings > out. But the system can still allow a large margin of dissatisfaction at > times, especially if you don't know the ability of the players involved. > > J D Thomas > ThomaStudios > > On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:02 AM, TXSTNR POP account wrote: > >> I just worked on a chart in which the composer (a guitar player) wrote >> E7(add2). I'd call that E9, but the guitar player said that he would put >> the 9th in a top voice in my case, and an inner voice in his. I argued that >> the chord symbol is not meant to indicate voicings, only the notes to be >> played. In your case I suppose you could write E7(add6) if you really don't >> want the 9th to sound, but if that's not an issue, just write E13 and be >> done with it. >> >> On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:45 AM, J D Thomas wrote: >> >>> Is the chord supported by another tension note, like a 9th or b9? E13 for >>> the first case, E13b9 if the 2nd. If not, is the 13th, C#, a predominant >>> note or just a passing note? >>> >>> J D Thomas >>> ThomaStudios >>> >>> On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: >>> Another question for the accumulated jazz wizdom of this list. I need to indicate an E dominant 7 chord with the 6th (or if you prefer, 13th) added. None of the suffixes in the default list jumps out me as the right one. What should it be? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >> >> Lon Price >> lonpr...@txstnr.com >> http://www.txstnr.com/ >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209-316 land line: (971) 255-1167 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
There are some chord symbols that try to approach a specific voicing scenario. Like Am7/D or C/D to avoid the conflict between the 3rd and the 11th. And most of the time they work pretty well. But overall, chord symbols are pretty inexact, leaving it up to the player to decide how to voice it. Obviously that can result in a mixed bag of results depending on the player. I've tried it both ways over the years, depending on how anal my overall intent was. If I really needed something specific, I spelled it out somehow, either via a specific albeit odd chord symbol, or I just wrote the voicings out. But the system can still allow a large margin of dissatisfaction at times, especially if you don't know the ability of the players involved. J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:02 AM, TXSTNR POP account wrote: > I just worked on a chart in which the composer (a guitar player) wrote > E7(add2). I'd call that E9, but the guitar player said that he would put the > 9th in a top voice in my case, and an inner voice in his. I argued that the > chord symbol is not meant to indicate voicings, only the notes to be played. > In your case I suppose you could write E7(add6) if you really don't want the > 9th to sound, but if that's not an issue, just write E13 and be done with it. > > On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:45 AM, J D Thomas wrote: > >> Is the chord supported by another tension note, like a 9th or b9? E13 for >> the first case, E13b9 if the 2nd. If not, is the 13th, C#, a predominant >> note or just a passing note? >> >> J D Thomas >> ThomaStudios >> >> On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: >> >>> Another question for the accumulated jazz wizdom of this list. I need to >>> indicate an E dominant 7 chord with the 6th (or if you prefer, 13th) added. >>> None of the suffixes in the default list jumps out me as the right one. What >>> should it be? >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > Lon Price > lonpr...@txstnr.com > http://www.txstnr.com/ > > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
I just worked on a chart in which the composer (a guitar player) wrote E7(add2). I'd call that E9, but the guitar player said that he would put the 9th in a top voice in my case, and an inner voice in his. I argued that the chord symbol is not meant to indicate voicings, only the notes to be played. In your case I suppose you could write E7(add6) if you really don't want the 9th to sound, but if that's not an issue, just write E13 and be done with it. On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:45 AM, J D Thomas wrote: > Is the chord supported by another tension note, like a 9th or b9? E13 for > the first case, E13b9 if the 2nd. If not, is the 13th, C#, a predominant > note or just a passing note? > > J D Thomas > ThomaStudios > > On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > >> Another question for the accumulated jazz wizdom of this list. I need to >> indicate an E dominant 7 chord with the 6th (or if you prefer, 13th) added. >> None of the suffixes in the default list jumps out me as the right one. What >> should it be? >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > Lon Price lonpr...@txstnr.com http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
Hi, I missed Robert's initial post. JD is right; the symbol E13 includes the D natural and indicates what you want without ambiguity. That symbol also implies the possible, though not obligatory inclusion of the natural 9th (F#). Any other pitches require additional suffix information. Chuck On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:45 AM, J D Thomas wrote: > Is the chord supported by another tension note, like a 9th or b9? E13 for > the first case, E13b9 if the 2nd. If not, is the 13th, C#, a predominant > note or just a passing note? > > J D Thomas > ThomaStudios > > On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > >> Another question for the accumulated jazz wizdom of this list. I need to >> indicate an E dominant 7 chord with the 6th (or if you prefer, 13th) added. >> None of the suffixes in the default list jumps out me as the right one. What >> should it be? >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209-316 land line: (971) 255-1167 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] measure width for whole rest (empty) bars
Ryan, This is a limitation of Finale. Whatever value you give for minimum measure width, Finale gives as much space for the default whole measure rest as it would for a whole note. However, you can remedy this with Jari's plug-in: JW Space Empty Rests (hey, why didn't he tell you that?). You'll find it on the "Downloads" page at his site: http://www.finaletips.nu/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=sections&Itemid=2 Best wishes, Michael On 30 Dec 2011, at 03:09, Ryan wrote: > Thanks for your advice, but I'm still getting whole rest measures that are > wider than measures with music in them. > > Minimum Measure Width: 0 spaces > Maximum Measure Width: 1365.29167 spaces (I entered 10,000 and Finale > lowered it to that value). > > Try this in a default document: > Meter 2/4. No key signature. > First measure, half note A-nat, > Second measure, whole rest, > Third and Fourth measures, eighth rest, Ab eighth note, quarter rest. (Pick > an Ab lower in the staff so that the stem goes up and Finale adds space for > the flag.) > Apply note spacing. > In my document the space of the half note measure is 7.04167 spaces, > the empty measures is 10.5 spaces, and third and fourth measures are is > 10.29 spaces. > > Where does Finale get the the width of 10.5 spaces for the empty measure? > I'd like it to be skinnier so that it more closely matches the > 7-spaces-wide measure with the lone half note in it. > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Darcy James Argue > wrote: > >> Hi Ryan, >> >> Your maximum width is set artificially low (which you did not mention). >> You should make it as big as Finale will allow. >> >>> This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure >>> width for a single measure of rest. >> >> It does if your minimum width is smaller than your maximum width. >> >>> That value has to be somewhere, right? >>> You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you >>> should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. >> >> >> Minimum measure width is in fact the variable that governs what you want. >> >> Cheers, >> >> - DJA >> - >> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org >> >> >> >> On 29 Dec 2011, at 5:38 PM, Ryan wrote: >> >>> That didn't work, Darcy. It created the opposite of what I want. Did you >>> perhaps mean to tell me to change the *maximum* width? That's already set >>> at 75 spaces. >>> >>> This setting doesn't seem to have any bearing on Finale's default measure >>> width for a single measure of rest. That value has to be somewhere, >> right? >>> You can specify how wide you want a multi-measure rest, so I think you >>> should be able to specify how wide you want single measure rest. >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Darcy James Argue < >> djar...@earthlink.net>wrote: >>> Hi Ryan, You want to make the minimum width larger, not smaller. Try making the minimum width 150 points or similar. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 29 Dec 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: > I've tried that. Even with a minimum width of 1 space the empty >> measures are still wider than adjacent measures with music in them. > > On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jari Williamsson < jari.williams...@mailbox.swipnet.se> wrote: > >> On 2011-12-29 00:32, Ryan wrote: >>> How do I globally change the default width for measures with default whole >>> rests in them? All the steps I've taken so far have not changed anything. >> >> Change the minimum width and respace. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Jari Williamsson >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dominant 7 plus 13
Is the chord supported by another tension note, like a 9th or b9? E13 for the first case, E13b9 if the 2nd. If not, is the 13th, C#, a predominant note or just a passing note? J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Another question for the accumulated jazz wizdom of this list. I need to > indicate an E dominant 7 chord with the 6th (or if you prefer, 13th) added. > None of the suffixes in the default list jumps out me as the right one. What > should it be? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
