[Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Lee Dengler]

I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?

Lee Dengler

leedeng...@comcast.net  

 

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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Raymond Horton]

3/2, absolutely. If uncertain, put quarter note equals quarter note.

Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016


On Dec 7, 2016 2:10 PM, "Lee Dengler"  wrote:

> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing
> a
> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>
> Lee Dengler
>
> leedeng...@comcast.net 
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[David H. Bailey]

On 12/7/2016 2:09 PM, Lee Dengler wrote:
> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>

I agree with Ray Horton on this point -- 3/2 subdivides into "1 and 2 
and 3 and" which puts the stress on quarter notes 1, 3, 5.  6/4 divides 
into "1 and and 2 and and" which puts the stress on quarter notes 1 and 4.

Definitely 3/2, and if there's any doubt, as Ray suggests include the 
text "q = q" over the meter changes.


-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[j...@thomastudios.com]

I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.


***
J D Thomas
ThomaStudios



> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
> 
> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
> 
> Lee Dengler
> 
> leedeng...@comcast.net  
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Darcy James Argue]

Hi all,

The conventional answer is 3/2, because as you say, traditionally 6/4 is 
compound meter. 

I personally ignore this convention for exactly the reason you describe — that 
it suggests that the underlying X/4 pulse changes, and that is unintentional. 
In a mixed-meter piece, going from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 to 3/2 causes needless 
confusion.

Sometimes, conventions are dumb.

Cheers,

— DJA
-
http://secretsocietymusic.org 

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, j...@thomastudios.com wrote:
> 
> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
> 
> 
> ***
> J D Thomas
> ThomaStudios
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>> 
>> Lee Dengler
>> 
>> leedeng...@comcast.net  
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Robert Patterson]

If you are uncomfortable with the 3/2 convention, rather than using the
ambiguous 6/4 meter, have you considered breaking it into 4/4 + 2/4? (or
vice versa)?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Darcy James Argue 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The conventional answer is 3/2, because as you say, traditionally 6/4 is
> compound meter.
>
> I personally ignore this convention for exactly the reason you describe —
> that it suggests that the underlying X/4 pulse changes, and that is
> unintentional. In a mixed-meter piece, going from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 to 3/2
> causes needless confusion.
>
> Sometimes, conventions are dumb.
>
> Cheers,
>
> — DJA
> -
> http://secretsocietymusic.org
>
> > On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, j...@thomastudios.com wrote:
> >
> > I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
> >
> >
> > ***
> > J D Thomas
> > ThomaStudios
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am
> writing a
> >> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).
> Occasionally,
> >> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.
> In
> >> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should
> I
> >> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to
> 3/2
> >> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
> >> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
> >>
> >> Lee Dengler
> >>
> >> leedeng...@comcast.net 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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> >
> >
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Darcy James Argue]

Breaking up the bar asymmetrically like that might work in certain situations, 
but there are many cases where it will not, and 6/4 really is the best answer. 

YMMV as they say, but I never lose any sleep over using a binary 6/4 and it has 
never caused any confusion for performers.

Cheers,

— DJA
-
http://secretsocietymusic.org



> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> The conventional answer is 3/2, because as you say, traditionally 6/4 is 
> compound meter. 
> 
> I personally ignore this convention for exactly the reason you describe — 
> that it suggests that the underlying X/4 pulse changes, and that is 
> unintentional. In a mixed-meter piece, going from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 to 3/2 
> causes needless confusion.
> 
> Sometimes, conventions are dumb.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> — DJA
> -
> http://secretsocietymusic.org 
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, j...@thomastudios.com wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
>> 
>> 
>> ***
>> J D Thomas
>> ThomaStudios
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
>>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
>>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
>>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
>>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>>> 
>>> Lee Dengler
>>> 
>>> leedeng...@comcast.net  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Finale mailing list
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>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>> 
>>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[David H. Bailey]

On 12/7/2016 3:08 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The conventional answer is 3/2, because as you say, traditionally 6/4
> is compound meter.
>
> I personally ignore this convention for exactly the reason you
> describe — that it suggests that the underlying X/4 pulse changes,
> and that is unintentional. In a mixed-meter piece, going from 4/4 to
> 3/4 to 5/4 to 3/2 causes needless confusion.

I work with a community band made up of amateur musicians and whenever 
we've had music such as the piece in question where the music moves from 
4/4 to 3/2, all it takes is a 10-second explanation "Keep the quarter 
notes constant through the meter change" and they've got it.  No 
confusion. No lengthy wasted rehearsal time.

When we have pieces that move from 4/4 to 6/4 I have to make the same 
explanation except that I need to add that the emphasis should be on 1, 
3, and 5 and not 1, 4.  So nothing is really gained by doing it one way 
or another.

-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com

-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Chuck Israels]

I can understand the argument for 3/2, but my experience with players even 
moderately familiar with newer music is that moving from 4/4 to 6/4 in which 
the 6/4 measure is felt with the same pulse - like a 4/4 measure with two extra 
beats, is not only not a problem, it’s less distracting than seeing a change of 
beat in the time signature.  So I would do as Darcy suggests, were it my score. 
 Rhythmic feel (proportion and accent) is the biggest notational challenge.

Chuck


> On Dec 7, 2016, at 12:54 PM, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
> 
> Breaking up the bar asymmetrically like that might work in certain 
> situations, but there are many cases where it will not, and 6/4 really is the 
> best answer. 
> 
> YMMV as they say, but I never lose any sleep over using a binary 6/4 and it 
> has never caused any confusion for performers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> — DJA
> -
> http://secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The conventional answer is 3/2, because as you say, traditionally 6/4 is 
>> compound meter. 
>> 
>> I personally ignore this convention for exactly the reason you describe — 
>> that it suggests that the underlying X/4 pulse changes, and that is 
>> unintentional. In a mixed-meter piece, going from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 to 3/2 
>> causes needless confusion.
>> 
>> Sometimes, conventions are dumb.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> — DJA
>> -
>> http://secretsocietymusic.org 
>> 
>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, j...@thomastudios.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ***
>>> J D Thomas
>>> ThomaStudios
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
 
 I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing 
 a
 piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
 I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
 those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
 make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
 makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
 considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
 
 Lee Dengler
 
 leedeng...@comcast.net  
 
 
 
 ___
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 Finale@shsu.edu
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Chuck Israels
cisra...@comcast.net
(360) 201-3434

8831 SE 12th Ave.
Portland OR 97202






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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Allen Fisher]

I agree with Darcy. When reading the score I'd much rather see 6/4. The shift 
to 3/2 causes me to have to think a bit more.

I did an arrangement several years ago where the quarter note stayed constant 
but had lots of meter changes (it was approximating some chant and I wanted to 
use downbeats to line up word stresses). It was much easier to read putting it 
in all x/4

Allen

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
> 
> Breaking up the bar asymmetrically like that might work in certain 
> situations, but there are many cases where it will not, and 6/4 really is the 
> best answer. 
> 
> YMMV as they say, but I never lose any sleep over using a binary 6/4 and it 
> has never caused any confusion for performers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> — DJA
> -
> http://secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The conventional answer is 3/2, because as you say, traditionally 6/4 is 
>> compound meter. 
>> 
>> I personally ignore this convention for exactly the reason you describe — 
>> that it suggests that the underlying X/4 pulse changes, and that is 
>> unintentional. In a mixed-meter piece, going from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 to 3/2 
>> causes needless confusion.
>> 
>> Sometimes, conventions are dumb.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> — DJA
>> -
>> http://secretsocietymusic.org 
>> 
>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, j...@thomastudios.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ***
>>> J D Thomas
>>> ThomaStudios
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
 
 I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing 
 a
 piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
 I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
 those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
 make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
 makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
 considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
 
 Lee Dengler
 
 leedeng...@comcast.net  
 
 
 
 ___
 Finale mailing list
 Finale@shsu.edu
 https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
 
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 finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Timothy Price]

3 measures of 2/4 is what you need.

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, "j...@thomastudios.com"  
> wrote:
> 
> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
> 
> 
> ***
> J D Thomas
> ThomaStudios
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>> 
>> Lee Dengler
>> 
>> leedeng...@comcast.net  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Raymond Horton]

three measures of 2/4 is not a bad suggestion at all. It avoids the minor
Panic that can result when seeing a larger time signature. another
possibility, depending on the music, is a 4/4 + 2/4.


Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016


On Dec 7, 2016 4:32 PM, "Timothy Price"  wrote:

3 measures of 2/4 is what you need.

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, "j...@thomastudios.com" 
wrote:
>
> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
>
>
> ***
> J D Thomas
> ThomaStudios
>
>
>
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
>>
>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am
writing a
>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).
Occasionally,
>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.
In
>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to
3/2
>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>>
>> Lee Dengler
>>
>> leedeng...@comcast.net 
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Patrick Sheehan]

6/4.   Don't change the denominators.  Keep the denominator consistent as
the pulse stays consistent.

Patrick J. M. Sheehan

P. S. Music

patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
-Original Message-
From: Lee Dengler [mailto:leedeng...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 1:10 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?

Lee Dengler

leedeng...@comcast.net  

 



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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[GERALD BERG]

 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; } Context is everything I suppose. A stress of three instead of 
two...or was that four? 2fer makes sense if they are equally stressed, but if 
equally stressed is really a 3. If really three 3/2 makes sense to me.


GJB

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016, 4:54 PM, Raymond Horton 
 wrote:

three measures of 2/4 is not a bad suggestion at all. It avoids the minor
Panic that can result when seeing a larger time signature. another
possibility, depending on the music, is a 4/4 + 2/4.


Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016


On Dec 7, 2016 4:32 PM, "Timothy Price"  wrote:

3 measures of 2/4 is what you need.

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:39 PM, "j...@thomastudios.com" 
wrote:
>
> I agree with David and Raymond, 3/2.
>
>
> ***
> J D Thomas
> ThomaStudios
>
>
>
>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
>>
>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am
writing a
>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).
Occasionally,
>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.
In
>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.  My uncertainty lies in that going to
3/2
>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>>
>> Lee Dengler
>>
>> leedeng...@comcast.net 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Giovanni Andreani]

I agree with Patrick, the denominator suggests the pulse's value.

Giovanni Andreani

> On 7 Dec 2016, at 23:52, Patrick Sheehan  
> wrote:
> 
> 6/4.   Don't change the denominators.  Keep the denominator consistent as
> the pulse stays consistent.
> 
> Patrick J. M. Sheehan
> 
> P. S. Music
> 
> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Lee Dengler [mailto:leedeng...@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 1:10 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4
> 
> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
> 
> Lee Dengler
> 
> leedeng...@comcast.net  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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