Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
M LAWLOR wrote: In Bartok's Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion there are a large variety of glissandi notated in different ways (in the Boosey & Hawkes miniature score). 1) Some are written out completely with gliss. marked above them. 2) Some have straight lines (not wavy) from first to last note with gliss. marked above them. Of these, some start and finish on white notes, others on black notes: none have 'black note gliss.' specifically indicated. It seems obvious to me that these correspond with white note glissandi and black note glissandi. 3) Some have the first few notes written out and straight lines continuing, with gliss. above them. Take your pick! I hope this helps. Now that's very curious -- does anybody know if they are typically performed differently? If not, then why the different ways of indicating them? Could it be that more than one engraver worked on the score and that each engraver used his own preferred method of engraving a gliss.? Of course, Boosey&Hawkes scores are so full of mistakes that while they can serve to demonstrate the various ways something might be notated, they shouldn't be held up as terrific examples of engraving perfection. :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
Hi Michael, Thanks! This is very helpful. I generally prefer wavy lines for "lumpy" glissandos (key rips) like on piano, and straight lines for smooth glisses and portamento on string instruments, etc. I believe this is Andrew Stiller's recommendation and it makes sense visually and practically. I do use straight lines on harp, though. (I realize that's inconsistent but I think it looks better.) It also seems obvious to me that a piano gliss that begins and ends on a black note should be performed as a black note gliss, but evidently it is not obvious to everyone. I could write out the first five notes as grace notes -- similar to what you'd do on a harp part -- but for this client, in this specific case, I think just the words "black note gliss" will be fine. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 2 Dec 2008, at 4:39 AM, M LAWLOR wrote: In Bartok's Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion there are a large variety of glissandi notated in different ways (in the Boosey & Hawkes miniature score). 1) Some are written out completely with gliss. marked above them. 2) Some have straight lines (not wavy) from first to last note with gliss. marked above them. Of these, some start and finish on white notes, others on black notes: none have 'black note gliss.' specifically indicated. It seems obvious to me that these correspond with white note glissandi and black note glissandi. 3) Some have the first few notes written out and straight lines continuing, with gliss. above them. Take your pick! I hope this helps. Regards, Michael Lawlor - Original Message - Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:37:29 -0500 From: Darcy James Argue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Finale] Black key gliss To: Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes Guys, 1) It's not my piece, and the composer wants a (wavy) gliss line. The only issue is whether it's necessary to add the text "black key gliss" or not. 2) If I wrote it out, the player's first instinct would be to finger the notes instead of playing it as a key rip. It would also imply a degree of accuracy that is not intended and is not desirable. Seriously, it's a piano gliss! We already have a perfectly good way of notating that. My only question is whether it is generally understood that glisses that start on white notes are played as white note glisses, and glisses that start on black notes are played as black note glisses. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
In Bartok's Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion there are a large variety of glissandi notated in different ways (in the Boosey & Hawkes miniature score). 1) Some are written out completely with gliss. marked above them. 2) Some have straight lines (not wavy) from first to last note with gliss. marked above them. Of these, some start and finish on white notes, others on black notes: none have 'black note gliss.' specifically indicated. It seems obvious to me that these correspond with white note glissandi and black note glissandi. 3) Some have the first few notes written out and straight lines continuing, with gliss. above them. Take your pick! I hope this helps. Regards, Michael Lawlor - Original Message - Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:37:29 -0500 From: Darcy James Argue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Finale] Black key gliss To: Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes Guys, 1) It's not my piece, and the composer wants a (wavy) gliss line. The only issue is whether it's necessary to add the text "black key gliss" or not. 2) If I wrote it out, the player's first instinct would be to finger the notes instead of playing it as a key rip. It would also imply a degree of accuracy that is not intended and is not desirable. Seriously, it's a piano gliss! We already have a perfectly good way of notating that. My only question is whether it is generally understood that glisses that start on white notes are played as white note glisses, and glisses that start on black notes are played as black note glisses. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
Sorry Darcy, I misunderstood. Being a pianist, yeah, it's generally assumed that it's a white key gliss. unless otherwise specified (usually a black key gliss in a heavily-flatted key). -- From: "Darcy James Argue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:37 PM To: Subject: Re: [Finale] Black key gliss Guys, 1) It's not my piece, and the composer wants a (wavy) gliss line. The only issue is whether it's necessary to add the text "black key gliss" or not. 2) If I wrote it out, the player's first instinct would be to finger the notes instead of playing it as a key rip. It would also imply a degree of accuracy that is not intended and is not desirable. Seriously, it's a piano gliss! We already have a perfectly good way of notating that. My only question is whether it is generally understood that glisses that start on white notes are played as white note glisses, and glisses that start on black notes are played as black note glisses. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 30 Nov 2008, at 10:21 AM, Patrick Sheehan wrote: I would also write it out, note for note. Depending on what's around it, the gliss. might be able to only go so far because of what's around it / what's coming on the next beat / can the pianist's hand shift that quickly to the next register... -- From: "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:58 PM To: Subject: Re: [Finale] Black key gliss On Fri, November 28, 2008 5:42 pm, Darcy James Argue wrote: In a piece of piano music, if there is a gliss that beings on a black note, is it necessary to specify "black key gliss" or is that just assumed? I specified black key gliss -- and got all sorts of nasty dumped on me. And there was blood on the keys. The pianist finally said to write it out, every note. Not sure if that helps at all. But that was the end of the blood. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
On Nov 30, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Guys, 1) It's not my piece, and the composer wants a (wavy) gliss line. The only issue is whether it's necessary to add the text "black key gliss" or not. 2) If I wrote it out, the player's first instinct would be to finger the notes instead of playing it as a key rip. It would also imply a degree of accuracy that is not intended and is not desirable. Seriously, it's a piano gliss! We already have a perfectly good way of notating that. My only question is whether it is generally understood that glisses that start on white notes are played as white note glisses, and glisses that start on black notes are played as black note glisses. I would not say that it is understood. I would say "black key gliss" and damn the torpedos if they think it is redundant. Better that than misunderstood. I know you're not the kind of guy to spray extra useless text everywhere on your charts... Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
Guys, 1) It's not my piece, and the composer wants a (wavy) gliss line. The only issue is whether it's necessary to add the text "black key gliss" or not. 2) If I wrote it out, the player's first instinct would be to finger the notes instead of playing it as a key rip. It would also imply a degree of accuracy that is not intended and is not desirable. Seriously, it's a piano gliss! We already have a perfectly good way of notating that. My only question is whether it is generally understood that glisses that start on white notes are played as white note glisses, and glisses that start on black notes are played as black note glisses. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 30 Nov 2008, at 10:21 AM, Patrick Sheehan wrote: I would also write it out, note for note. Depending on what's around it, the gliss. might be able to only go so far because of what's around it / what's coming on the next beat / can the pianist's hand shift that quickly to the next register... -- From: "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:58 PM To: Subject: Re: [Finale] Black key gliss On Fri, November 28, 2008 5:42 pm, Darcy James Argue wrote: In a piece of piano music, if there is a gliss that beings on a black note, is it necessary to specify "black key gliss" or is that just assumed? I specified black key gliss -- and got all sorts of nasty dumped on me. And there was blood on the keys. The pianist finally said to write it out, every note. Not sure if that helps at all. But that was the end of the blood. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
I would also write it out, note for note. Depending on what's around it, the gliss. might be able to only go so far because of what's around it / what's coming on the next beat / can the pianist's hand shift that quickly to the next register... -- From: "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:58 PM To: Subject: Re: [Finale] Black key gliss On Fri, November 28, 2008 5:42 pm, Darcy James Argue wrote: In a piece of piano music, if there is a gliss that beings on a black note, is it necessary to specify "black key gliss" or is that just assumed? I specified black key gliss -- and got all sorts of nasty dumped on me. And there was blood on the keys. The pianist finally said to write it out, every note. Not sure if that helps at all. But that was the end of the blood. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
On Fri, November 28, 2008 5:42 pm, Darcy James Argue wrote: > In a piece of piano music, if there is a gliss that beings on a black > note, is it necessary to specify "black key gliss" or is that just > assumed? I specified black key gliss -- and got all sorts of nasty dumped on me. And there was blood on the keys. The pianist finally said to write it out, every note. Not sure if that helps at all. But that was the end of the blood. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Black key gliss
I would say specify "black key gliss". Raymond Horton Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi all, In a piece of piano music, if there is a gliss that beings on a black note, is it necessary to specify "black key gliss" or is that just assumed? Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Black key gliss
Hi all, In a piece of piano music, if there is a gliss that beings on a black note, is it necessary to specify "black key gliss" or is that just assumed? Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
