Re: [Fink-devel] Adding a new package for the first time

2004-06-23 Thread brlcad
Dave,
Actually, when I made my first stab at the documentation a couple 
months ago, I recall that I did run across the presentation pdf.  From 
memory, I believe I glanced through that and finally getting to the 
.info example and thinking okay, this looks like it'll be pretty 
simple.'  There was just enough uncertainty, though, as to what goes 
where and what I needed to do since, as you well know, there is no 
accompanying text.  So my fink learning adventure proceeded to the 
Package Manual where I quickly began to lose steam.

Looking back at the presentation now, and after having gone through the 
process finally, I see that it is _really_ close to what I was looking 
for actually.  Coupled with some text that was most likely given 
verbally during the presentation and converted to html (or reformat pdf 
away from slide-format), it would serve as a great intro.

It'd still probably be very useful to point users to the vast array of 
existing .info files in fink already for other projects.  I believe I 
ultimately visited about a dozen to get a feel for convention and ideas 
of things to check for.  Anyhow, thanks again for the great work!

Cheers!
Sean
On Jun 23, 2004, at 08:51, David R. Morrison wrote:
I appreciate the feedback.  I wonder whether you had a chance to look 
at
one other resource linked from the Documentation page: the slides from
a talk I gave Using Fink: A Developer's How-To at the 2002 O'Reilly
OS X conference.   During the talk itself, I took people through the
creation of a simple fink package in step by step fashion.  The slides
probably don't capture that too well, though... As you suggest, we 
really
need to write a Beginner's Guide.

  -- Dave

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[Fink-devel] Adding a new package for the first time

2004-06-22 Thread brlcad
Hello,
After having gone through the process of getting a new project added to 
fink for the first time, I figured I might as well share some of my 
thoughts and insights with others.  I know that at least in the 
projects I work on, it's easy to get lost in the familiarity of your 
own creation and that a fresh external perspective is often helpful.  
If you don't feel you need that perspective, please feel free to ignore 
this.

To give the impatient a short summary, it is something like this:  The 
Package Manual is a good manual but is really not well suited as a 
guide for completely new projects by itself.  Being pointed to the 
plethora of examples already in fink CVS was a gold mine that was 
ultimately what led to success.  I'd suggest pointing this out at the 
very beginning of the manual, as well as elsewhere on the site.

Long version, let me start by saying that in the end and overall, I 
found the process to be relatively reasonable.  In hindsight it's not a 
complicated process and you guys have done a great job at making a 
sticky task manageable.

This was my second stab at trying to figure out just what exactly I 
needed to do; the first was several months ago (and was utterly 
frustrating).  The first time, I went to the website and quickly 
located the Package Manual.  After reading a fair bit of the manual, it 
left me still without any direction of where to actually begin.  It 
starts describing pieces of a file.  Syntax of those pieces, 
descriptions of each of those pieces.

All good when said and done, but was rather useless to put it frankly 
for my time constraints and focused goal.  After putting a couple hours 
in and still not ending up with a firm direction of what was needed and 
what was not needed, I shelved the task for later or someone else on 
our dev team.  Sure, had I invested even more time, and rtfm 
completely, I would have probably figured it out.  The point is, 
however, that I shouldn't have had to spend that much time in the first 
place.  Our project was like a thousand others out there, and I knew 
this.

After hearing how quickly another dev set us up  with darwinports a 
couple days ago, I was once again prodded to get our project into fink. 
 This time I was intent at putting as little time and effort in as I 
could.  Not to belittle the situation, but I have better things to do.  
This was way down on my list of priorities as I have enough 
responsibilities but .. hey, I like fink and actually felt I was doing 
us both a service so I figured another try was in order.  Take that as 
you may.

This time I dropped in to #fink on freenode and conveyed my concerns 
about how to get started quickly.  I was, of course, pointed to my 
dismay to the blasted Package Manual yet again.  Even after I explained 
how I did not need all the information in there, I was disappointed to 
be responded with a defensive and blunt you do need all the 
information in there.  Before giving up and leaving, I was able to 
craft up the question of where I could find existing examples at least. 
 (recall that I know/knew little nothing about the slew that were 
already on my harddrive)  I was pointed to cvs, to my delight.

To make a really long story only slightly shorter, I then quickly had a 
sample info file prepared in less than 15 minutes after perusing a 
dozen or so other projects.  That was really all that I needed.  
Contrary to the you need to read all the Package Manual demand -- I 
didn't.

I did find the manual useful _after_ I had an initial info file for 
looking up what a couple keywords meant, but in the end there were only 
a handful of questions that I wondered about and they were all quickly 
answered by others in #fink later.  On that note, it's worth pointing 
out that not everyone in #fink was a stickler ;) some have been 
incredibly helpful and everyone's time was really appreciated 
regardless of any frustration.

What I'm hoping to convey is that 1) the Package Manual, albeit a good 
manual, is not well suited to creating a fink info file for the very 
first time.  A short howto with a complete simple example broken out 
would have worked -- a sentance or two pointing me to refer to a dozen 
examples in cvs would have worked too.  Then if there are still 
questions, I can see how it would have been worth it to rtfm in it's 
entirety.

That's all I got.  Again, I'm hoping to not step on anyones toes, and 
I'm not looking for a defensive response or any response for that 
matter.  If someone can take something useful away from my experience, 
great.  Keep up the great work guys.

Cheers!
Sean

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