Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Vlad Khorsun
wrote:
>>> we must provide binaries inside our Windows package :(
>>>
>>
>> Yes, that is right.
>>
>> I don't object to agreeing on a specific version of ICU for each release. We
>> would just change the build script as required. (Presumably we will need .lib
>> files.) Our main problem is likely to be finding icu binaries built with
>> MSVC10.
>
> ICU 4.6 (more exactly icu4c 4.6 and latest 4.6.1) are built using MSVC10,
> so
> this is not an issue.
>
> BTW, we still have no MSVC10 at our build farm, but this is another
> question...
>
>> Not much would change as far as packaging is concerned. We would just include
>> the icu dlls as now, except their location at package time will / may be
>> different.
>>
>> Of courses, we may get lucky and ibm will have upgraded their ridiculous icu
>> build system and we could just incorporate it again into the windows build.
>> However, if it hasn't been changed it would require a ton of work for each
>> icu
>> version, which is one of the reasons why we haven't upgraded icu.
>
> One note. Binary packages at IBM site
>
> http://download.icu-project.org/files/icu4c/4.6.1/icu4c-4_6_1-Win32-msvc10.zip
> http://download.icu-project.org/files/icu4c/4.6.1/icu4c-4_6_1-Win64-msvc10.zip
>
> contains relatively "big" ICU libraries. Size of 3 dll's needed for Firebird
> is more than
> 16MB, the biggest is icudt46.dll (14.4MB) which contains a lot of unused by
> FB data.
>
> Should i said that whole FB folder have similar size ?
>
> Here http://apps.icu-project.org/datacustom/ we can see what could be
> removed
> without any harm.
>
> We should decide (at least for Windows)
> a) will we provide ICU libraries
> - within our packages (as with FB2.x), or
I vote for this one
> - ask users to download ICU from IBM site, or
Asking users to download separate package is prone to errors : there
will be a flood of questions : where do i download ... firebird
doesn't work out of the box
(matching icu versions hell)
> - provide separate package with just 3 DLL's we need
it should be optional and for people who want slim firebird
> b) will we provide default ("fat") ICU libraries or our customized ("light")
> version ?
Provide fat icu in first stage and if is requested make it light (hdd
space/bandwidth is realy cheap these days) and doesn't worth to spend
to much
time in overoptimizing the used space
Creating a light package is a good idea for embedders but that want to
create small packages but that should be optional package
--
WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial
acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
>> we must provide binaries inside our Windows package :(
>>
>
> Yes, that is right.
>
> I don't object to agreeing on a specific version of ICU for each release. We
> would just change the build script as required. (Presumably we will need .lib
> files.) Our main problem is likely to be finding icu binaries built with
> MSVC10.
ICU 4.6 (more exactly icu4c 4.6 and latest 4.6.1) are built using MSVC10, so
this is not an issue.
BTW, we still have no MSVC10 at our build farm, but this is another
question...
> Not much would change as far as packaging is concerned. We would just include
> the icu dlls as now, except their location at package time will / may be
> different.
>
> Of courses, we may get lucky and ibm will have upgraded their ridiculous icu
> build system and we could just incorporate it again into the windows build.
> However, if it hasn't been changed it would require a ton of work for each
> icu
> version, which is one of the reasons why we haven't upgraded icu.
One note. Binary packages at IBM site
http://download.icu-project.org/files/icu4c/4.6.1/icu4c-4_6_1-Win32-msvc10.zip
http://download.icu-project.org/files/icu4c/4.6.1/icu4c-4_6_1-Win64-msvc10.zip
contains relatively "big" ICU libraries. Size of 3 dll's needed for Firebird is
more than
16MB, the biggest is icudt46.dll (14.4MB) which contains a lot of unused by FB
data.
Should i said that whole FB folder have similar size ?
Here http://apps.icu-project.org/datacustom/ we can see what could be
removed
without any harm.
We should decide (at least for Windows)
a) will we provide ICU libraries
- within our packages (as with FB2.x), or
- ask users to download ICU from IBM site, or
- provide separate package with just 3 DLL's we need
b) will we provide default ("fat") ICU libraries or our customized ("light")
version ?
Regards,
Vlad
--
WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial
acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
On 04/19/11 22:47, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: > On 19-04-2011 13:02, Paul Reeves wrote: >> However, if it hasn't been changed it would require a ton of work for each >> icu >> version, which is one of the reasons why we haven't upgraded icu. >> > No, it's surely not. > > I've done a patch for a previous version which fixed like we did for > 3.0. It have a thing missing, and I talked about it in this list. > > Then we agreed on nothing (the same thing we discussed 5 or 6 times and > are discussing right now again). This patch left abandoned, they > continued they development and I have no idea about how they are now. If they do not accept required for us patch, we will have to import ICU sources in our tree. Said but looks unavoidable. -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
On 19-04-2011 13:02, Paul Reeves wrote: > > However, if it hasn't been changed it would require a ton of work for each > icu > version, which is one of the reasons why we haven't upgraded icu. > No, it's surely not. I've done a patch for a previous version which fixed like we did for 3.0. It have a thing missing, and I talked about it in this list. Then we agreed on nothing (the same thing we discussed 5 or 6 times and are discussing right now again). This patch left abandoned, they continued they development and I have no idea about how they are now. Adriano -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
Paul Reeves [2011-04-19 18:02] : > Our main problem is likely to be finding icu binaries built with > MSVC10. > something like these ? http://site.icu-project.org/download/46 icu4c-4_6_1-Win32-msvc10.zip7.7 MB Windows (win32 x86 32-bit) Visual Studio 10 icu4c-4_6_1-Win64-msvc10.zip7.9 MB Windows (win32 x86 64-bit) Visual Studio 10 > Of courses, we may get lucky and ibm will have upgraded their ridiculous icu > build system and we could just incorporate it again into the windows build. > However, if it hasn't been changed it would require a ton of work for each > icu > version, which is one of the reasons why we haven't upgraded icu. don't know, but check here : http://site.icu-project.org -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
On Tuesday 19 April 2011 at 16:47 Philippe Makowski wrote: > > Where ? > the only link I found is : http://site.icu-project.org/download > and with this we can't do a 'one click install' We wouldn't want to do that anyway. The icu binaries would be specific to a particular version of Firebird. I doubt that we would want to deploy them as an assembly to . And one reason for moving to MSVC10 is to get away from dependancies on assemblies anyway. > we must provide binaries inside our Windows package :( > Yes, that is right. I don't object to agreeing on a specific version of ICU for each release. We would just change the build script as required. (Presumably we will need .lib files.) Our main problem is likely to be finding icu binaries built with MSVC10. Not much would change as far as packaging is concerned. We would just include the icu dlls as now, except their location at package time will / may be different. Of courses, we may get lucky and ibm will have upgraded their ridiculous icu build system and we could just incorporate it again into the windows build. However, if it hasn't been changed it would require a ton of work for each icu version, which is one of the reasons why we haven't upgraded icu. Paul -- Paul Reeves http://www.ibphoenix.com Specialists in Firebird support -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
Alex Peshkoff [2011-04-18 19:44] : > As a separate download ICU binaries are always available from IBM site > (including win32/64). Where ? the only link I found is : http://site.icu-project.org/download and with this we can't do a 'one click install' we must provide binaries inside our Windows package :( but it would be good to move to ICU 4.6 or at least 4.4, as soon as CORE-3447 will be solved -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
On 04/18/11 21:24, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > 18.04.2011 13:26, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > >>> So, are we going to use more recent ICU libraries in FB3 ? >> Vlad, I think yes > This sounds as a good idea to me as well. > >> Ideally ICU should be installed by package manager due to dependency. >> But taking into an account that such method of install is not too >> popular in windows (or may be I'm wrong and something has changed during >> last years?) > It's not only about popularity, but also about a "install-by-copying" > approach for the embedded server which was always considered a feature. > So we have no other choice but to have the ICU binaries included in our > Windows packages (or available as a separate download). As a separate download ICU binaries are always available from IBM site (including win32/64). Therefore adding them to installer is just about 'one click install' on windows. I suppose they are needed in self-extract installer first of all for this purpose. -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
18.04.2011 13:26, Alex Peshkoff wrote: >> So, are we going to use more recent ICU libraries in FB3 ? > > Vlad, I think yes This sounds as a good idea to me as well. > Ideally ICU should be installed by package manager due to dependency. > But taking into an account that such method of install is not too > popular in windows (or may be I'm wrong and something has changed during > last years?) It's not only about popularity, but also about a "install-by-copying" approach for the embedded server which was always considered a feature. So we have no other choice but to have the ICU binaries included in our Windows packages (or available as a separate download). Dmitry -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
On 04/16/11 14:23, Vlad Khorsun wrote: >> I spend some time for revision and adaption of your copy of ICU library for >> VS2010 > Thanks > >> 1. Reduce number of compiler warnings >> I defined the _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS=1 in firebird2intl.props > Good change, imho > >> 2. Creation of PDB files for all binaries (debug/release) > Not necessary. I doubt we are going to distribute pdb files for ICU > package. There > was ZERO issues with ICU which could require to install .pdb at use machine, > AFAIR. > >> 3. Unified names of release/debug binaries > Good change too. > > I have nothing againt applaying this patch to the our copy of ICU but > first i want to > raise more important question re. ICU : > > are we going to update our copy of ICU package in FB3 ? We used very > outdated > copy and it have some still not fixed (mostly minor) issues. On Linuxes there > is possibility > to use system ICU libraries but on Windows there is no ICU distributed with > OS itself. > > So, are we going to use more recent ICU libraries in FB3 ? Vlad, I think yes, and moreover - taking into an account that since fb2.1 we are not forced to use specific ICU version, we should not import ICU sources into our tree. Ideally ICU should be installed by package manager due to dependency. But taking into an account that such method of install is not too popular in windows (or may be I'm wrong and something has changed during last years?), I suppose that latest binaries from IBM should be integrated into both windows binary packages, and we our self should not waste time for support of that package. On posix no other option instead use of ICU, already installed in OS, will be present. What must be done: 1. Ability to load existing ICU version dynamically (i.e. our binaries should not explicitly depend upon it). 2. SQL command to recreate dependent indexes when ICU version is changed should also be present. -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] ICU. VS2010 project files
> I spend some time for revision and adaption of your copy of ICU library for > VS2010 Thanks > 1. Reduce number of compiler warnings > I defined the _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS=1 in firebird2intl.props Good change, imho > 2. Creation of PDB files for all binaries (debug/release) Not necessary. I doubt we are going to distribute pdb files for ICU package. There was ZERO issues with ICU which could require to install .pdb at use machine, AFAIR. > 3. Unified names of release/debug binaries Good change too. I have nothing againt applaying this patch to the our copy of ICU but first i want to raise more important question re. ICU : are we going to update our copy of ICU package in FB3 ? We used very outdated copy and it have some still not fixed (mostly minor) issues. On Linuxes there is possibility to use system ICU libraries but on Windows there is no ICU distributed with OS itself. So, are we going to use more recent ICU libraries in FB3 ? Regards, Vlad -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
