Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 11:01, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > 1) No need to care about that tag -- simplify life for both end users > and connectivity layer developers. > > 2) Explicitly declare our UTF8 only future (in advance). I would prefer a brand-new API for that, not just a little hacking of old crap. -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 12:56, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > > what will be an advantage of the new DPB version except implicit isc_dpb_utf8 > tag? 1) No need to care about that tag -- simplify life for both end users and connectivity layer developers. 2) Explicitly declare our UTF8 only future (in advance). Dmitry -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 10:53, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > I didn't not suggest to remove/deprecate older DPB versions, so legacy > clients will be supported. Ok, but what will be an advantage of the new DPB version except implicit isc_dpb_utf8 tag? -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 12:25, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >> If we agree to move towards UTF8 in the long run, adding a new DPB/SPB >> version may be a good idea. Not necessarily in v4 though. > > Completely break backward-compatibility is a bad idea. I didn't not suggest to remove/deprecate older DPB versions, so legacy clients will be supported. Dmitry -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 10:18, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > Please let's avoid choosing bad names. It has nothing to do with > filenames. It should be something like isc_spb_utf8_data or > isc_spb_utf8_strings instead. And yes, we need to add a properly named > alias for isc_dpb_utf8_filename too. I agree that we should add alias named isc_spb(dpb)_utf8 in V4. I used old name just because it already exists. > If we agree to move towards UTF8 in the long run, adding a new DPB/SPB > version may be a good idea. Not necessarily in v4 though. Completely break backward-compatibility is a bad idea. And bumping of the version won't solve any problem with handling of strings in old applications. We can do that, of course, when it will be clearly documented that new API version support only UTF-8. -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 12:10, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > > isc_spb_utf8_filename is enough, see no need to have new version. Please let's avoid choosing bad names. It has nothing to do with filenames. It should be something like isc_spb_utf8_data or isc_spb_utf8_strings instead. And yes, we need to add a properly named alias for isc_dpb_utf8_filename too. > Version is bumped when clumplets format is changed incompatibly (like > use of 32-bit clumplet length in new SPB version). Changing encoding > rules does not look like such change. I'd say the version can be bumped for any change that leads to wrong processing by the older code. Misinterpreted strings fit this rule. However, using *_utf8_* tags really looks like a hack in the long term. If we agree to move towards UTF8 in the long run, adding a new DPB/SPB version may be a good idea. Not necessarily in v4 though. Dmitry -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 12:04, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > > In that case wouldn't it be better to bump the SPB version and declare > that from that version strings buffers are UTF-8 only? Shouldn't this idea be adapted for DPB as well? Dmitry -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
On 03/23/2016 12:04 PM, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > On 22-3-2016 15:10, Alex Peshkoff wrote: >> On 03/22/2016 04:54 PM, Jim Starkey wrote: >>> On 3/22/2016 8:33 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: Hello, All. Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a rule for determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I suggest to use following: If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed to be in UTF8. Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on *nix. Do you agree? >>> I don't agree. It would be better all around if everything passing over >>> the wire is passed as utf-8. >> Certainly - but we must support old clients. > In that case wouldn't it be better to bump the SPB version and declare > that from that version strings buffers are UTF-8 only? isc_spb_utf8_filename is enough, see no need to have new version. Version is bumped when clumplets format is changed incompatibly (like use of 32-bit clumplet length in new SPB version). Changing encoding rules does not look like such change. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
23.03.2016 10:04, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > In that case wouldn't it be better to bump the SPB version and declare > that from that version strings buffers are UTF-8 only? It will add more problems with backward-compatibility with no gain. -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
On 22-3-2016 15:10, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > On 03/22/2016 04:54 PM, Jim Starkey wrote: >> On 3/22/2016 8:33 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >>> Hello, All. >>> >>> Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a >>> rule for >>> determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I >>> suggest to use >>> following: >>> If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed >>> to be in UTF8. >>> Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on >>> *nix. >>> >>> Do you agree? >>> >> I don't agree. It would be better all around if everything passing over >> the wire is passed as utf-8. > > Certainly - but we must support old clients. In that case wouldn't it be better to bump the SPB version and declare that from that version strings buffers are UTF-8 only? Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
22.03.2016 16:31, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > Sounds like a hack, why not just introduce a lc_ctype spb item for > consistency? I would like on contrary declare isc_dpb_lc_ctype deprecated. Problem is that Firebird charsets match neither system locales not code pages. It causes a big problem to convert data between them and unicode. -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
Sounds like a hack, why not just introduce a lc_ctype spb item for consistency? Mark - Bericht beantwoorden - Van: "Dimitry Sibiryakov" <s...@ibphoenix.com> Aan: "For discussion among Firebird Developers" <firebird-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> Onderwerp: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding Datum: di, mrt. 22, 2016 13:33 Hello, All. Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a rule for determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I suggest to use following: If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed to be in UTF8. Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on *nix. Do you agree? -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel-- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
22.03.2016 14:54, Jim Starkey wrote: > I don't agree. It would be better all around if everything passing over > the wire is passed as utf-8. I agree here, but I'm talking about API level, not engine internals, so > all character code translation be handled on the client > side as part of the client library. is done exactly this way. -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
On 03/22/2016 04:54 PM, Jim Starkey wrote: > On 3/22/2016 8:33 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >> Hello, All. >> >> Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a >> rule for >> determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I >> suggest to use >> following: >> If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed >> to be in UTF8. >> Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on >> *nix. >> >> Do you agree? >> > I don't agree. It would be better all around if everything passing over > the wire is passed as utf-8. Certainly - but we must support old clients. > The server should get out of the business > of handling local character sets. The Unicode Foundation supplies > conversion tables from just about every character set on earth to > Unicode, and translation of Unicode to utf-8 is simple and mechanical. > > I suggest that all character code translation be handled on the client > side as part of the client library. > > -- > Transform Data into Opportunity. > Accelerate data analysis in your applications with > Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. > Click to learn more. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 > Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel > -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
On 3/22/2016 8:33 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > Hello, All. > > Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a > rule for > determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I > suggest to use > following: > If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed to > be in UTF8. > Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on > *nix. > > Do you agree? > I don't agree. It would be better all around if everything passing over the wire is passed as utf-8. The server should get out of the business of handling local character sets. The Unicode Foundation supplies conversion tables from just about every character set on earth to Unicode, and translation of Unicode to utf-8 is simple and mechanical. I suggest that all character code translation be handled on the client side as part of the client library. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
On 03/22/2016 03:33 PM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > Hello, All. > > Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a > rule for > determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I > suggest to use > following: > If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed to > be in UTF8. > Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on > *nix. > > Do you agree? > yes -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
[Firebird-devel] Services and encoding
Hello, All. Because there is nothing like isc_spb_lc_ctype, must be established a rule for determining of encoding of all strings passed into services and back. I suggest to use following: If isc_spb_utf8_filename is included in SPB, all strings are supposed to be in UTF8. Otherwise they are in ANSI code page on Windows and current locale on *nix. Do you agree? -- WBR, SD. -- Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
