Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[marius adrian popa]

While there can we upgrade the license to mpl2 ?

http://oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/mpl2
https://www.mozilla.org/MPL/2.0/

to be in sync with libreoffice


On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Paul Beach  wrote:

>
> < is pointing to nothing. We need to update the files in the repository to
> point to the right location of the license or please suggest an
> alternative.
> I think that only FB v3 matters.>>
>
> ipl - http://www.ibphoenix.com/about/firebird/ipl
> idpl - http://www.ibphoenix.com/about/firebird/idpl
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Helen Borrie]

At 09:16 p.m. 5/03/2015, marius adrian popa wrote:
>While there can we upgrade the license to mpl2 ?

No.  The source code we used for Firebird is licensed under MPL v.1.0. *That* 
version of the source code, *that* version of the MPL.

Helen




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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[supp...@ibknowledgebase.com]

Hi,


http://www.firebirdsql.org/en/licensing/

Regards,
Alexey

> People,
> http://www.ibphoenix.com/main.nfs?a=ibphoenix&page=ibp_idpl.
> is pointing to nothing. We need to update the files in the repository to
> point to the right location of the license or please suggest an alternative.
> I think that only FB v3 matters.
>
> C.
> ---
> Claudio Valderrama C.
> Consultant, SW developer.
>
>
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[marius adrian popa]

I'm thinking about the Firebird Initial Developer's Public License (based
on MPL v1.1)

For old headers still with old license we can incoporate them this way
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Re-Basing#What_does_your_license_header_look_like_.3F

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Helen Borrie  wrote:

> At 09:16 p.m. 5/03/2015, marius adrian popa wrote:
> >While there can we upgrade the license to mpl2 ?
>
> No.  The source code we used for Firebird is licensed under MPL v.1.0.
> *That* version of the source code, *that* version of the MPL.
>
> Helen
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Jim Starkey]

I don't think you can change the license for modules from individuals without 
their permission.  Vulcan modules explicitly forbid a change of license.

Jim Starkey


> On Mar 5, 2015, at 4:16 AM, marius adrian popa  wrote:
> 
> While there can we upgrade the license to mpl2 ?
> 
> http://oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/mpl2
> https://www.mozilla.org/MPL/2.0/
> 
> to be in sync with libreoffice 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Paul Beach  wrote:
>> 
>> <> is pointing to nothing. We need to update the files in the repository to
>> point to the right location of the license or please suggest an alternative.
>> I think that only FB v3 matters.>>
>> 
>> ipl - http://www.ibphoenix.com/about/firebird/ipl
>> idpl - http://www.ibphoenix.com/about/firebird/idpl
>> 
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[marius adrian popa]

Ok understand , What i ask is that new code to be under MPL 2.0 without any
changes to the license text like they did in the libreoffice case

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/COPYING.MPL
This will simplify the license understanding (no more idpl/ipl license text
forks of mpl 1/1.1...)

https://www.mozilla.org/MPL/2.0/FAQ.html#making-my-own-license

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Helen Borrie  wrote:

> At 09:16 p.m. 5/03/2015, marius adrian popa wrote:
> >While there can we upgrade the license to mpl2 ?
>
> No.  The source code we used for Firebird is licensed under MPL v.1.0.
> *That* version of the source code, *that* version of the MPL.
>
> Helen
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dmitry Yemanov]

05.03.2015 15:38, marius adrian popa wrote:

> Ok understand, what i ask is that new code to be under MPL 2.0

What is our benefit?

> This will simplify the license understanding

Nope, it will only complicate understanding. Old modules have to remain 
IPLed/IDPLed, so actually we'll be claiming three licenses instead of two.


Dmitry


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Leyne, Sean]

> Plese do and fix the urls
> While there please replace the inprise.com with firebirdsql.org license
> location

Absolutely not!!!

The original license must remain untouched, we did not create the original 
files, we cannot change the license statement.

The fact that Inprise/Borland/embarcadero have not maintained the URL location 
is not our problem.


Sean

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 15:19, Leyne, Sean wrote:
> The fact that Inprise/Borland/embarcadero have not maintained the URL 
> location is not our problem.

   What's the problem with broken IBPhoenix URL then?..

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[Firebird-devel] Firebird 3 API demo usage with Pascal

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

Hi!

I just build an example of Firebird 3 API usage with FreePascal.

https://github.com/asfernandes/fbstuff/blob/db56fa93850a70c473362296df12a95c7494a7dc/src/pascal/FbApiTest.dpr

As said early, working with input/output buffers directly in non-C/C++
is difficult.

This requires auxiliary classes.

The others things seems ok and easy to use.

We need some new functions in the new API, for example, to convert
status vectors to strings, but this is not specific to pascal.


Adriano


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Leyne, Sean]

> 05.03.2015 15:19, Leyne, Sean wrote:
> > The fact that Inprise/Borland/embarcadero have not maintained the URL
> location is not our problem.
> 
>What's the problem with broken IBPhoenix URL then?..

There is none with changing that -- the IDPL is a 'product' of the project, as 
such it can be changed.

The IPL (Interbase) license is a Inprise product, as such as can't change it.


Sean


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 15:57, Leyne, Sean wrote:
> There is none with changing that -- the IDPL is a 'product' of the project, 
> as such it can be changed.

   I just wonder why this "product" is on third-party site instead of 
firebirdsql.org.

-- 
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dmitry Yemanov]

05.03.2015 18:03, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
>
> I just wonder why this "product" is on third-party site instead of 
> firebirdsql.org.

Huh?

http://www.firebirdsql.org/en/initial-developer-s-public-license-version-1-0


Dmitry


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 16:09, Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
> Huh?

   We are talking about sources (particularly headers), no?..

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 16:13, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
> We are talking about sources (particularly headers), no?..

   I mean that if you are going to update headers to a new license URL, it 
would be better 
if it is official project's site URL, not IBPhoenix one.

-- 
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

On 05/03/2015 11:57, Leyne, Sean wrote:
>
>> 05.03.2015 15:19, Leyne, Sean wrote:
>>> The fact that Inprise/Borland/embarcadero have not maintained the URL
>> location is not our problem.
>>
>>What's the problem with broken IBPhoenix URL then?..
> There is none with changing that -- the IDPL is a 'product' of the project, 
> as such it can be changed.
>
> The IPL (Interbase) license is a Inprise product, as such as can't change it.
>
>
No, you should do the same (change or not change) in both cases.

It's not the license owner that matters, but who adopted it for their work.


Adriano

PS: This subject again


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3 API demo usage with Pascal

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

On 05/03/2015 11:53, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>
> The others things seems ok and easy to use.
>
> We need some new functions in the new API, for example, to convert
> status vectors to strings, but this is not specific to pascal.
>
>
Also, we have a "half new API".

To much constants come from legacy API.


Adriano


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[Firebird-devel] Odp: READ UNCOMMITTED implementation

[liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl]

Hi, 

It is usefull for testing purposes. Consider monitoring what actually is in 
some table from other connection or software before some long task has finished.

Regards,
Karol Bieniaszewski

- Reply message -
Od: "Mark Rotteveel" 
Do: "For discussion among Firebird Developers" 

Temat: [Firebird-devel] READ UNCOMMITTED implementation
Data: śr., mar 4, 2015 08:38
What is the use case for it? As far as I recall the sql standard doesn't 
require it (and maybe even discourages it) but has it include because some 
systems already had it.
Mark

- Reply message -
Van: "marius adrian popa" 
Aan: "For discussion among Firebird Developers" 

Onderwerp: [Firebird-devel] READ UNCOMMITTED implementation
Datum: wo, mrt. 4, 2015 08:12
Seems that we need  F111-01 implemented https://github.com/rowland/fb/issues/42

http://www.firebirdsql.org/en/sql-conformance/--
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3 API demo usage with Pascal

[Alex Peshkoff]

On 03/05/15 18:23, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
> On 05/03/2015 11:53, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>> The others things seems ok and easy to use.
>>
>> We need some new functions in the new API, for example, to convert
>> status vectors to strings, but this is not specific to pascal.
>>
>>
> Also, we have a "half new API".
>
> To much constants come from legacy API.
>

May be we should keep them in separate file and include in both new and 
old main h-files?


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3 API demo usage with Pascal

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

On 05/03/2015 12:37, Alex Peshkoff wrote:
> On 03/05/15 18:23, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>> On 05/03/2015 11:53, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>>> The others things seems ok and easy to use.
>>>
>>> We need some new functions in the new API, for example, to convert
>>> status vectors to strings, but this is not specific to pascal.
>>>
>>>
>> Also, we have a "half new API".
>>
>> To much constants come from legacy API.
>>
> May be we should keep them in separate file and include in both new and 
> old main h-files?
>
>
I think new API should have the constants with new names, using the new
standard as upper case, and in the IDL file.

For example, DPB constants could be listed inside IProvider (the
interface who uses DPB).

Old file maybe could be generated from it with some name mapping.

But this appear to be a lot of work to be done now.


Adriano


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Paul Beach]

05.03.2015 16:13, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
> We are talking about sources (particularly headers), no?..

<<   I mean that if you are going to update headers to a new license URL, it 
would be better
if it is official project's site URL, not IBPhoenix one.>>

The IPL license hosted on IBPhoenix was the license originally used, i.e. we 
hosted the original license that the InterBase code was
released with (as Ann and I devised it). If I remember rightly the Inprise 
license was slightly modified after release.

We also hosted the IDPL license because again if I remember rightly, Jim 
initially used the IDPL for the Vulcan work.

Paul


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 17:07, Paul Beach wrote:
> The IPL license hosted on IBPhoenix was the license originally used, i.e. we 
> hosted the original license that the InterBase code was
> released with (as Ann and I devised it). If I remember rightly the Inprise 
> license was slightly modified after release.
>
> We also hosted the IDPL license because again if I remember rightly, Jim 
> initially used the IDPL for the Vulcan work.

   IIRC, it was time when Firebird project just didn't have its own web site. 
Now it has 
one and can encapsulate its resources to avoid external dependencies.

-- 
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Paul Beach]

> The IPL license hosted on IBPhoenix was the license originally used, i.e. we 
> hosted the original license that the InterBase code
was
> released with (as Ann and I devised it). If I remember rightly the Inprise 
> license was slightly modified after release.
>
> We also hosted the IDPL license because again if I remember rightly, Jim 
> initially used the IDPL for the Vulcan work.

<<   IIRC, it was time when Firebird project just didn't have its own web site. 
Now it has
one and can encapsulate its resources to avoid external dependencies.>>

I wasn't arguing about it - just pointing out some historical facts that were 
valid at some time in the past.

Paul


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3 API demo usage with Pascal

[Simonov Denis]

Adriano dos Santos Fernandes  писал(а) в своём письме  
Thu, 05 Mar 2015 17:53:08 +0300:

Thank You. Very interesting. Another would like to see will look like on  
UDR FreePascal.

> Hi!
>
> I just build an example of Firebird 3 API usage with FreePascal.
>
> https://github.com/asfernandes/fbstuff/blob/db56fa93850a70c473362296df12a95c7494a7dc/src/pascal/FbApiTest.dpr
>
> As said early, working with input/output buffers directly in non-C/C++
> is difficult.
>
> This requires auxiliary classes.
>
> The others things seems ok and easy to use.
>
> We need some new functions in the new API, for example, to convert
> status vectors to strings, but this is not specific to pascal.
>
>
> Adriano
>
>
> --
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Odp: READ UNCOMMITTED implementation

[Ann Harrison]

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 11:26 AM, "liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> It is usefull for testing purposes. Consider monitoring what actually is in 
> some table from other connection or software before some long task has 
> finished.

Nothing is in a table until it is committed, so there's nothing to monitor.  


Best regards,

Ann
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 17:49, Paul Beach wrote:
> I wasn't arguing about it - just pointing out some historical facts that were 
> valid at some time in the past.

   So do I. I'm sorry if it looked like an offense.

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Ann Harrison]

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Paul Beach  wrote:
> 
> 05.03.2015 16:13, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
>>We are talking about sources (particularly headers), no?..
> 
> <<   I mean that if you are going to update headers to a new license URL, it 
> would be better
> if it is official project's site URL, not IBPhoenix one.>>
> 
> The IPL license hosted on IBPhoenix was the license originally used, i.e. we 
> hosted the original license that the InterBase code was
> released with (as Ann and I devised it). If I remember rightly the Inprise 
> license was slightly modified after release.
> 
> We also hosted the IDPL license because again if I remember rightly, Jim 
> initially used the IDPL for the Vulcan work.
> 

My recollection is that the IPL was worked out among Paul, me, Dale Fuller, and 
a few others.  The original Mozilla licenses gave ownership rights to Netscape. 
 We changed it to Inprise and its successors.  When Firebird launched as an 
independent entity, we (same crowd, minus Dale) created the IDPL which gave the 
individual developer ownership rights.  For better or for worse, we didn't want 
any entity, including the not yet created Firebird Foundation, to be able to 
take the code private or create closed source "enterprise" versions.  

Again, at the time, IBPhoenix had a website based on Netfrastructure and the 
Firebird Foundation didn't, since it didn't exist.  At this point inertia takes 
hold.  When you're working on code, the last thing you think about is updating 
headers.  When Netfrastructure ceased to be supported, IBPhoenix changed its 
website and the old addresses went away.

Cheers,

Ann
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Ann Harrison]

I wrote:
> 
> My recollection is that the IPL was worked out among Paul, me, Dale Fuller, 
> and a few others.  The original Mozilla licenses gave ownership rights to 
> Netscape.  We changed it to Inprise and its successors.  When Firebird 
> launched as an independent entity, we (same crowd, minus Dale) created the 
> IDPL which gave the individual developer ownership rights.  For better or for 
> worse, we didn't want any entity, including the not yet created Firebird 
> Foundation, to be able to take the code private or create closed source 
> "enterprise" versions.  

Another advantage of the IDPL is that if you write some useful new code - a new 
compression algorithm for example - you own that code even after applying the 
IDPL.  You can't disallow use under the IDPL, but you can include the code in 
other projects with other licenses.  Me, I want Firebird to be forever free.  
Jim wanted to be able to contribute code and use elsewhere.  We found common 
ground.

Cheers,

Ann
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Odp: READ UNCOMMITTED implementation

[Jim Starkey]

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Ann Harrison  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 11:26 AM, "liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> It is usefull for testing purposes. Consider monitoring what actually is in 
>> some table from other connection or software before some long task has 
>> finished.
> 
> Nothing is in a table until it is committed, so there's nothing to monitor.

That may be logically correct, but physically, an uncommitted record is there, 
at least in Firebird MVCC.  So it would be possible, I suppose, to implement 
read uncommitted, though there is a nast problem that an uncommitted record 
would mask a committed version, but that's part and parcel of read uncommitted.

But hey, why stop there?  How about "read rolledback", "read deleted", "read 
imaginary", and 'read whatever" (Monty's default mode for MySQL)?  


>  
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ann
> --
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Time to update our headers.

[Ann Harrison]

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 8:38 AM, marius adrian popa  wrote:
> 
> Ok understand , What i ask is that new code to be under MPL 2.0 without any 
> changes to the license text like they did in the libreoffice case  
> 
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/COPYING.MPL
> This will simplify the license understanding (no more idpl/ipl license text 
> forks of mpl 1/1.1...)
> 
Do we really want the Mozilla Foundation to be the Steward of our license?

Cheers,

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Odp: READ UNCOMMITTED implementation

[Roman Simakov]

> 5 марта 2015 г., в 20:26, Jim Starkey  написал(а):
> 
> "read imaginary»

Is it not the same as "read uncommited"? :)

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[Firebird-devel] Commits visible in our main page.

[Claudio Valderrama C.]

People, maybe you're going to say that this would be ugly, but at
www.firebirdsql.org 
after the PROJECT NEWS I would like to see information about latest commits,
maybe this whole page inside a frame:
http://sourceforge.net/p/firebird/code/commit_browser

While some readers may feel it's too nerdy, I think it's of utmost
importance to show the project is alive. Currently we are like the magma: we
are moving but under the surface... then nobody cares and a lot of people
think the project stagnated years ago.

C.
---
Claudio Valderrama C.
Consultant, SW developer.


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Odp: READ UNCOMMITTED implementation

[Jim Starkey]

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Roman Simakov  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 5 марта 2015 г., в 20:26, Jim Starkey  написал(а):
>> 
>> "read imaginary»
> 
> Is it not the same as "read uncommited"? :)

Oh, certainly not!  Read imaginary invents whole new record(s) conforming to 
the search criteria with random numbers/strings for other fields.  Read 
imaginary is what you use when you have an infinite number monkeys, lots of 
patience, and need a complete copy of Shakespeare free of copyright constraints.


> 
> --
> Roman Simakov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Firebird-devel] Commits visible in our main page.

[Dmitry Yemanov]

05.03.2015 23:53, Claudio Valderrama C. wrote:

> People, maybe you're going to say that this would be ugly, but at
> www.firebirdsql.org
> after the PROJECT NEWS I would like to see information about latest commits,
> maybe this whole page inside a frame:
> http://sourceforge.net/p/firebird/code/commit_browser

I'd rather prefer it being at http://firebirdsql.org/#stay-in-touch
but you would argue this is not much visible...

> While some readers may feel it's too nerdy, I think it's of utmost
> importance to show the project is alive. Currently we are like the magma: we
> are moving but under the surface... then nobody cares and a lot of people
> think the project stagnated years ago.

The main page shows latest releases dated December 2014. It also 
mentions fresh driver releases in the news. I doubt the commit log would 
make our progress any more visible.


Dmitry


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Commits visible in our main page.

[Carlos H. Cantu]

I agree that it would help to make people aware that something is
happening behind the scenes, but I think the content must be short,
for example, showing only the last 5 commits (with its dates, and
titles trimmed when need). Clicking in a link could send the visitor
the the full sourceforge list of commits.

[]s
Carlos
http://www.firebirdnews.org
FireBase - http://www.FireBase.com.br

CVC> People, maybe you're going to say that this would be ugly, but at
CVC> www.firebirdsql.org 
CVC> after the PROJECT NEWS I would like to see information about latest 
commits,
CVC> maybe this whole page inside a frame:
CVC> http://sourceforge.net/p/firebird/code/commit_browser

CVC> While some readers may feel it's too nerdy, I think it's of utmost
CVC> importance to show the project is alive. Currently we are like the magma: 
we
CVC> are moving but under the surface... then nobody cares and a lot of people
CVC> think the project stagnated years ago.

CVC> C.
CVC> ---
CVC> Claudio Valderrama C.
CVC> Consultant, SW developer.


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Re: [Firebird-devel] Commits visible in our main page.

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

05.03.2015 21:21, Carlos H. Cantu wrote:
>   I think the content must be short,
> for example, showing only the last 5 commits (with its dates, and
> titles trimmed when need).

   May be something like SF statistics "XX commits last week" could be enough?..

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Commits visible in our main page.

[Carlos H. Cantu]

DS>May be something like SF statistics "XX commits last week" could be 
enough?..

Looks good too. I think the web designer may decide what fits better
the currently layout.

[]s
Carlos
http://www.firebirdnews.org
FireBase - http://www.FireBase.com.br


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