Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 18-4-2018 18:15, blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support] 
wrote:
> One of the newer and nice error trapping features in T-SQL is the 
> implementation of the "Try-Catch" block, which I used quite a bit when 
> working on developing corporate databases.

That is supported in Firebird in `execute block` or in stored 
procedures. The major difference with T-SQL is that T-SQL supports 
stored procedure like usage without explicitly doing that. In Firebird 
you're required to use a stored procedure (or wrap it in an execute block).

> Another was the use of "select" to to test out functionality.  for 
> example, with T-SQL in a database manager I can write the following...
> 
> select 'trailing ''la'''  -> which returns trailing 'la'  when run.
> 
> You can do the same with the following Firebird-SQL statement...
> 
>    select 'trailing ''la''' from RDB$DATABASE

A debatable difference: this is similar to Oracle's DUAL table. Also the 
SQL standard requires a FROM-clause (this is an example where we are 
strict ;).

> However, it took me a while to find this capability and I only did so by 
> accident.  This is where a book on "Learning Firebird SQL" would of 
> great assistance in moving the Firebird up the popularity rankings.  In 
> fact, such books are far more helpful than the language references since 
> these latter books assume that you have a working knowledge of SQL and 
> do little to promote the Firebird database beyond the core community.

Writing a book is not easy, especially not for introductory texts. 
However, we always welcome contributors for documentation. You can also 
consider writing blog posts.

> As it regards the above example, if I remember correctly, I believe 
> there is a similar statement construct in Oracle.
> 
> However, the T-SQL implementation is the most elegant and the easiest to 
> use and learn.
> 
> Cursors in T-SQL have also gotten very powerful and even more efficient 
> with the later releases of SQL Server.  As a result, their complexity is 
> far easier to learn and use.
> 
> As Oracle relies on cursors in a way that SQL Server does not, it is 
> with this database engine that the power of the cursor is its most 
> extensive.

Firebird also has cursors (in PSQL), but I have rarely needed to use 
them explicitly (nor with Oracle or SQL Server). A good example of a use 
case that is easy in another database, but hard to do in Firebird would 
be really welcome.

> These are just some examples off the top of my head so to speak...

Thanks!


-- 
Mark Rotteveel

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support]]

Mark...

One of the newer and nice error trapping features in T-SQL is the 
implementation of the "Try-Catch" block, which I used quite a bit when working 
on developing corporate databases.

Another was the use of "select" to to test out functionality.  for example, 
with T-SQL in a database manager I can write the following...

  select 'trailing ''la'''  -> which returns trailing 'la'  when run.

You can do the same with the following Firebird-SQL statement...

  select 'trailing ''la''' from RDB$DATABASE

However, it took me a while to find this capability and I only did so by 
accident.  This is where a book on "Learning Firebird SQL" would of great 
assistance in moving the Firebird up the popularity rankings.  In fact, such 
books are far more helpful than the language references since these latter 
books assume that you have a working knowledge of SQL and do little to promote 
the Firebird database beyond the core community.

As it regards the above example, if I remember correctly, I believe there is a 
similar statement construct in Oracle.

However, the T-SQL implementation is the most elegant and the easiest to use 
and learn.

Cursors in T-SQL have also gotten very powerful and even more efficient with 
the later releases of SQL Server.  As a result, their complexity is far easier 
to learn and use.

As Oracle relies on cursors in a way that SQL Server does not, it is with this 
database engine that the power of the cursor is its most extensive.

These are just some examples off the top of my head so to speak...

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 18-4-2018 16:55, blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support] 
wrote:
> I have to disagree with your observation.  It is clearly stated in the 
> Firebird SQL Reference Manual that the development of Firebird-SQL is 
> with a strict implementation of the SQL-92 Standard.

Could you provide a reference (I can't find it in the Firebird 2.5 
language reference), because if that is the case, that is either an 
error or a statement taken out of context.

Firebird is not a strict implementation of SQL-92, but if we consider 
SQL features, we usually try to follow the SQL standard specification 
for that feature.

> This is not to say that Firebird-SQL does not go beyond the SQL-92 
> Standard but it is somewhat limited in this respect when compared to the 
> other major SQL implementation for which I have used them all with the 
> exception of of IBM's DB2...

Could you provide explicit examples of what you're missing, so that we 
can consider improvements to Firebird's dialect.

Mark
-- 
Mark Rotteveel

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support]]

I have to disagree with your observation.  It is clearly stated in the Firebird 
SQL Reference Manual that the development of Firebird-SQL is with a strict 
implementation of the SQL-92 Standard.

This is not to say that Firebird-SQL does not go beyond the SQL-92 Standard but 
it is somewhat limited in this respect when compared to the other major SQL 
implementation for which I have used them all with the exception of of IBM's 
DB2...

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[liviuslivius liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl [firebird-support]]

Hi Steve,
can you point me into one example about sentence mentioned by you"Firebird's 
implementation of SQL is a very strict implementation of the SQL-92 Standard.  
As a result, this makes Firebird-SQL not only very limited in what it can do 
when compared to other SQL dialects but extremely frustrating to those who come 
to use Firebird with the expectation that their current knowledge of SQL will 
suffice."
One example is better than 1000 words
Regards,Karol Bieniaszewski
null

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 18-4-2018 16:27, blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support] 
wrote:
> Firebird's implementation of SQL is a very strict implementation of the 
> SQL-92 Standard.  As a result, this makes Firebird-SQL not only very 
> limited in what it can do when compared to other SQL dialects but 
> extremely frustrating to those who come to use Firebird with the 
> expectation that their current knowledge of SQL will suffice.

Qualifying Firebird as a very strict implementation of SQL-92 is 
incorrect. Firebird's SQL dialect supports more than SQL-92, given we 
also support features from more recent SQL standards.

Mark
-- 
Mark Rotteveel

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support]]

I just wanted to follow up on this thread about learning Firebird-SQL since I 
have extensive experience with using SQL with a variety of database engines 
over a very long career.

That being said, the gentleman who stated that you cannot use T-SQL with 
Firebird is primarily correct and learning T-SQL in of itself would hinder one 
trying to convert their knowledge to Firebird-SQL.

Both T-SQL and Firebird-SQL support the SQL-92 Standard.  However, T-SQL, like 
SQL from other major database vendors add so much to their SQL dialects that it 
is difficult to determine where the SQL-92 Standard begins and where it ends.

Firebird's implementation of SQL is a very strict implementation of the SQL-92 
Standard.  As a result, this makes Firebird-SQL not only very limited in what 
it can do when compared to other SQL dialects but extremely frustrating to 
those who come to use Firebird with the expectation that their current 
knowledge of SQL will suffice.

Since I retired in 2014 and began development on projects that did not use SQL 
as heavily as I was used to, I became somewhat rusty in my knowledge of the 
more advanced techniques with SQL.  As a result, to learn Firebird, I decided 
to base my initial referencing on the Firebird SQL Language Reference PDF.  For 
the most part, it is a superb guide but somewhat lacking in more extensive 
examples demonstrating some of the more advanced techniques in certain areas.  
Such discrepancies for example, can be found in the use of string and date-time 
functions.

However, this should not deter anyone from basing their learning or referencing 
from this manual.

Ms. Helen Borrie, one of the co-development leads on the Firebird Database 
Engine project, also has a multi-volume set of books available for purchase, 
which detail all of the necessary details one would need for learning to work 
with Firebird's implementation of SQL.  However, her books are a little pricey, 
probably the result of the lower distribution capabilities when compared to the 
other database engines.

An excellent learning guide and refresher book is "Learning SQL" by Alan 
Beaulieu from O'Reilly Books.  Mr Beauleu provides a very good insight into 
using SQL based upon various implementations for SQL Server, MySQL, and Oracle 
with an emphasis on MySQL.  As a result, I would recommend anyone wanting to 
learn Firebird-SQL to obtain this book and use it as an additional reference 
when working with the Firebird SQL Language Reference Guide.  Such use will 
allow the developer to ascertain what Firebird supports and what it doesn't 
simply by making comparisons between the two against the SQL code that the 
developer is attempting too create.

To aid in this area, I am also developing an entire set of SQL code in stored 
procedure format that I will eventually post on my own technical blog for 
anyone that wants example scripts to go by.

Finally, whether you have experience with databases or not, approach the 
learning of Firebird-SQl with an open mind.  It's strict adherence to the 
SQL-92 standard can become very frustrating to work with; especially for those 
who have prior database experience.  But stick with it and you will master the 
necessary essentials.

PostgreSQL has similar issues with its SQL implementation but due to the 
extensive and in-depth manual that comes with it, one is more easily able to 
adjust to this powerful database's SQL implementation.  If Firebird were to 
become more popularized, I am quite sure that the development team would 
accommodate such increased interest by providing more in-depth written material.

And surprisingly, in a recent poll for the rankings of database usage around 
the world, the European use of Firebird has actually pushed this excellent 
database up a notch in the rankings from #30 to #29.  As a result, Firebird 
appears to be looking at becoming a mainstay database engine if the trend 
continues as slow as it may be...

Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in [firebird-support]]

 All In All, Thank You Everyone for the suggestion and Support. 
On Wednesday, 18 April, 2018, 4:00:47 PM IST, Mark Rotteveel 
m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]  
wrote:  
 
     
On 2018-04-18 12:24, Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I want to use TSQL in Firebird, as I was going through some online
> post at expert exchange where someone asked that can we use TSQL in
> firebird, then the answer that not fully but upto some extend we can
> use.
> 
> That's the reason I wanted to learn TSQL from firebird point of view.

You cannot use T-SQL in Firebird, because T-SQL is the SQL dialect 
specific to Microsoft SQL Server (and some variants of Sybase).

For the SQL dialect you can use with Firebird, look no further than the 
Firebird 2.5 Language Reference 
(https://www.firebirdsql.org/file/documentation/reference_manuals/fblangref25-en/html/fblangref25.html)

Mark

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Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2018-04-18 12:24, Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I want to use TSQL in Firebird, as I was going through some online
> post at expert exchange where someone asked that can we use TSQL in
> firebird, then the answer that not fully but upto some extend we can
> use.
> 
> That's the reason I wanted to learn TSQL from firebird point of view.

You cannot use T-SQL in Firebird, because T-SQL is the SQL dialect 
specific to Microsoft SQL Server (and some variants of Sybase).

For the SQL dialect you can use with Firebird, look no further than the 
Firebird 2.5 Language Reference 
(https://www.firebirdsql.org/file/documentation/reference_manuals/fblangref25-en/html/fblangref25.html)

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Dimitry Sibiryakov s...@ibphoenix.com [firebird-support]]

18.04.2018 12:24, Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in [firebird-support] 
wrote:
> I want to use TSQL in Firebird

   Give up. Firebird supports standard SQL to some extend. T-SQL supports 
standard SQL to 
some extend. Firebird has no support for T-SQL.


-- 
   WBR, SD.






++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

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Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in [firebird-support]]

 Hi Mark,
I want to use TSQL in Firebird, as I was going through some online post at 
expert exchange where someone asked that can we use TSQL in firebird, then the 
answer that not fully but upto some extend we can use.
That's the reason I wanted to learn TSQL from firebird point of view.
On Wednesday, 18 April, 2018, 1:32:25 PM IST, Mark Rotteveel 
m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]  
wrote:  
 
     
On 2018-04-18 08:57, Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Hi Edward Mendez,
> 
> I totally agree with you that this Firebird group has also helped me
> immensely, in my critical situations.
> 
> Thank you so much for the replay and suggestions. I would go through
> the link.
> 
> But I am still willing to know about T-SQL and how to write it.

T-SQL is the name for the SQL dialect used by Microsoft SQL Server (and 
some variants of Sybase), so if you specifically want to learn about 
T-SQL, you will need to buy a book on Microsoft SQL Server / T-SQL. As 
you are asking on firebird-support, I assume you don't actually want to 
learn T-SQL, so what is it that you do want to learn?

Mark

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Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2018-04-18 06:14, 'Live.com Email' emendez...@nc.rr.com 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Vishal,
> 
> The word “T-SQL” usually means transact SQL and that relates
> mostly to SQL Server. So if you search on TSQL you will get lots of
> hits pertaining to SQL Server. I’ve been working with FIREBIRD since
> 2010 and by far some of the best sources for learning SQL using
> Firebird has been Stackoverflow.com, The FIREBIRD Book by Helen Borrie
> written in 2004. Recently they have come out with the FIREBIRD
> Developers guide, not really SQL, but more about the different client
> technologies accessing Firebird. You can also go through a bunch of
> other materials from the firebirdsql.org site
> https://www.firebirdsql.org/en/reference-manuals/. And last but not
> least this support group has helped me in many occasions when I’ve
> been stumped trying to figure things out.

There is a second edition of The Firebird Book, released in 2013, in 
print it is available in four parts. See 
http://ibphoenix.com/products/books/firebird_book

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2018-04-18 08:57, Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Hi Edward Mendez,
> 
> I totally agree with you that this Firebird group has also helped me
> immensely, in my critical situations.
> 
> Thank you so much for the replay and suggestions. I would go through
> the link.
> 
> But I am still willing to know about T-SQL and how to write it.

T-SQL is the name for the SQL dialect used by Microsoft SQL Server (and 
some variants of Sybase), so if you specifically want to learn about 
T-SQL, you will need to buy a book on Microsoft SQL Server / T-SQL. As 
you are asking on firebird-support, I assume you don't actually want to 
learn T-SQL, so what is it that you do want to learn?

Mark

Re: RE: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in [firebird-support]]

 Hi Edward Mendez,
I totally agree with you that this Firebird group has also helped me immensely, 
in my critical situations. Thank you so much for the replay and suggestions. I 
would go through the link.
But I am still willing to know about T-SQL and how to write it.

Thanking You Again And With Best Regards.
Vishal 
On Wednesday, 18 April, 2018, 9:51:30 AM IST, 'Live.com Email' 
emendez...@nc.rr.com [firebird-support] <firebird-support@yahoogroups.com> 
wrote:  
 
     


Vishal,

  

The word “T-SQL” usually means transact SQL and that relates mostly to SQL 
Server. So if you search on TSQL you will get lots of hits pertaining to SQL 
Server. I’ve been working with FIREBIRD since 2010 and by far some of the best 
sources for learning SQL using Firebird has been Stackoverflow.com, The 
FIREBIRD Book by Helen Borrie written in 2004. Recently they have come out with 
the FIREBIRD Developers guide, not really SQL, but more about the different 
client technologies accessing Firebird. You can also go through a bunch of 
other materials from the firebirdsql.org site 
https://www.firebirdsql.org/en/reference-manuals/. And last but not least this 
support group has helped me in many occasions when I’ve been stumped trying to 
figure things out. 

  

Thanks,

  

Edward Mendez

  

  

  

From: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com <firebird-support@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 11:33 PM
To: Firebird-support <firebird-support@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

  

  

Hi All,

  

I would like to know if there is any dedicated book with good examples on T-SQL.

  

I have googled and found that T-SQL Querying, T-SQL Fundamentals etc books

  

But it seems that they are mainly dedicated to SQL Server database.a nd talk 
lot of stuffs on other stuffs in database. Since I use Firebird sever and 
mainly interested in learning T-SQL, so just would like to know is there any 
dedicated book on T-SQL which won't speak too much about database internal 
stuffs.

  

Thanks in Advance.

  

  

With Best Regards.

  

Vishal


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RE: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

['Live.com Email' emendez...@nc.rr.com [firebird-support]]

Vishal,

 

The word “T-SQL” usually means transact SQL and that relates mostly to SQL 
Server. So if you search on TSQL you will get lots of hits pertaining to SQL 
Server. I’ve been working with FIREBIRD since 2010 and by far some of the best 
sources for learning SQL using Firebird has been Stackoverflow.com, The 
FIREBIRD Book by Helen Borrie written in 2004. Recently they have come out with 
the FIREBIRD Developers guide, not really SQL, but more about the different 
client technologies accessing Firebird. You can also go through a bunch of 
other materials from the firebirdsql.org site 
https://www.firebirdsql.org/en/reference-manuals/. And last but not least this 
support group has helped me in many occasions when I’ve been stumped trying to 
figure things out. 

 

Thanks,

 

Edward Mendez

 

 

 

From: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com <firebird-support@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 11:33 PM
To: Firebird-support <firebird-support@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

 

  

Hi All,

 

I would like to know if there is any dedicated book with good examples on T-SQL.

 

I have googled and found that T-SQL Querying, T-SQL Fundamentals etc books

 

But it seems that they are mainly dedicated to SQL Server database.a nd talk 
lot of stuffs on other stuffs in database. Since I use Firebird sever and 
mainly interested in learning T-SQL, so just would like to know is there any 
dedicated book on T-SQL which won't speak too much about database internal 
stuffs.

 

Thanks in Advance.

 

 

With Best Regards.

 

Vishal

[firebird-support] Book on T-SQL

[Vishal Tiwari vishuals...@yahoo.co.in [firebird-support]]

Hi All,
I would like to know if there is any dedicated book with good examples on T-SQL.
I have googled and found that T-SQL Querying, T-SQL Fundamentals etc books...
But it seems that they are mainly dedicated to SQL Server database.a nd talk 
lot of stuffs on other stuffs in database. Since I use Firebird sever and 
mainly interested in learning T-SQL, so just would like to know is there any 
dedicated book on T-SQL which won't speak too much about database internal 
stuffs.
Thanks in Advance.

With Best Regards.
Vishal