Re: [firebird-support] Re: Best Firebird Platform for our Environment
Bill, we have been running what in our understanding was a huge mixed dBase/Delphi 7 application until 2006. DBFs until 2004, then switched to Firebird for data, then replaced (nearly) all code by C#/.net. When the performance of an application on a well equipped Classic Server is worse or even much worse than on a weak SuperServer which also runs RDP sessions, then definitely something is wrong in the total application setup. From 2004 to 2006 we have been using dBase/BDE to access a ClassicServer 1.5.2 on a 4GB XEON. Even when the CPU runs at 70% and there virtually is no RAM left, any query sent from a 2012 client machine still runs much faster on the CS than on a locally installed SuperServer. There are people who can help you improving your application setup, to get a huge performance boost, but it most likely requires some changes in code and attitude. The weakest among many weak points in using dBase/BDE as frontend for SQL databases is the lack of a good datagrid. dBase/BDE requires constant read/write connections and a lot of silly indexes to work smoothly. I think this stuff does not really belong here, but there is a specialized Newsgroup for this: news.dBase.com, group SQL-Servers. You don't need a login and password there. You will meet several people who are using dBase/BDE/Firebird. You will get step-by-step help there to improve the Firebird experience. Thanks for the information. In regards to the Windows 2003 Server running RDP, it is running Firebird Superserver 2.1.3 32-bit. What I have noticed is it only uses 1 CPU and it is running at 60-100% utilization. In regards to the dbase Plus programs, there are some dbase files used in conjunction with the firebird files. We have experimented with a Windows 2008 Server, 64-bit with 8gb RAM, dual E5430 XEON processors and Firebird 2.5.2 64bit. Firebird utilized the multiple CPUs and the Utilization never went above 19%, but the performance was worse. We also encountered frequent not-responding messages during program execution. The screen goes white. There is no certain pattern to the not responding messages and in some cases the program ends normally, but in a few cases, the program ends without completing. If you run the same programs from a workstation with firebird 2.5.2 client-only install, they run properly, but run much slower. The test workstation is an Intel I5-661 with 4gb of memory and Windows 7 32-bit. --- In firebird-support@yahoogroups.com, André Knappstein Knappstein@... wrote: If you have enough know-how to manage all the basic linux stuff, then go with a linux system. If you don't then better use windows. But something else needs your attention (or mine *g*). Are you using StoredProc objects in dBPlus 2.6 to deal with stored procedures in Firebird? If so you should be warned, there is an undocumented bug in dBase that - only on XEON systems - leads to exceptions in the dBase StoredProc object. The bug persists in the freshly released dBase plus 8. If your application experience is fine with RDP sessions, then keep it. Never change something you are satisfied with! If you will go real client/server, you might get a huge improvement, becausea lot of workload is transmitted to the quite potential workstations. Depending on how complex your GUI stuff is, this can render a huge performance gain for the server, which in turn can much better use the power for the database stuff. But if your implementation is not too clean, you also might experience the opposite! 2.6.2 still is firmly tied to the BDE, which means you need a special approach to use dBase as front end for *any* SQL server backend. So far you only needed changes in pixels to go over the wire. Full client/server would also mean that the data you operate on will have to go over the wire. You better make sure that data is as small as you really need. Typical dbase/BDE behaviour is: create many many many indexes with the poorest of selectivity *and* doing a full table select as often as possible. This will break your neck in client/server. We are trying to determine the best platform for Firebird SQL 2.5.2. Our firebird databases are 40-60gb in size and are being accessed by dbase plus 2.6.2 programs. Currently we are running on Windows 2003 Server with dual Intel XEON E5430 quad-core processors and 8gb RAM. This server is being accessed with Windows Remote Desktop. We are in the process of replacing this server with a new server using 2 Intel XEON E5-2640 processors and 16gb of RAM. We are trying to determine whether we should go with Windows or Linux. We also want to consider client/server versus the current model we are using. We would use Intel I7-3770K processors with 8gb of ram for workstations.
[firebird-support] Re: Best Firebird Platform for our Environment
Thanks for the information. In regards to the Windows 2003 Server running RDP, it is running Firebird Superserver 2.1.3 32-bit. What I have noticed is it only uses 1 CPU and it is running at 60-100% utilization. In regards to the dbase Plus programs, there are some dbase files used in conjunction with the firebird files. We have experimented with a Windows 2008 Server, 64-bit with 8gb RAM, dual E5430 XEON processors and Firebird 2.5.2 64bit. Firebird utilized the multiple CPUs and the Utilization never went above 19%, but the performance was worse. We also encountered frequent not-responding messages during program execution. The screen goes white. There is no certain pattern to the not responding messages and in some cases the program ends normally, but in a few cases, the program ends without completing. If you run the same programs from a workstation with firebird 2.5.2 client-only install, they run properly, but run much slower. The test workstation is an Intel I5-661 with 4gb of memory and Windows 7 32-bit. --- In firebird-support@yahoogroups.com, André Knappstein Knappstein@... wrote: If you have enough know-how to manage all the basic linux stuff, then go with a linux system. If you don't then better use windows. But something else needs your attention (or mine *g*). Are you using StoredProc objects in dBPlus 2.6 to deal with stored procedures in Firebird? If so you should be warned, there is an undocumented bug in dBase that - only on XEON systems - leads to exceptions in the dBase StoredProc object. The bug persists in the freshly released dBase plus 8. If your application experience is fine with RDP sessions, then keep it. Never change something you are satisfied with! If you will go real client/server, you might get a huge improvement, becausea lot of workload is transmitted to the quite potential workstations. Depending on how complex your GUI stuff is, this can render a huge performance gain for the server, which in turn can much better use the power for the database stuff. But if your implementation is not too clean, you also might experience the opposite! 2.6.2 still is firmly tied to the BDE, which means you need a special approach to use dBase as front end for *any* SQL server backend. So far you only needed changes in pixels to go over the wire. Full client/server would also mean that the data you operate on will have to go over the wire. You better make sure that data is as small as you really need. Typical dbase/BDE behaviour is: create many many many indexes with the poorest of selectivity *and* doing a full table select as often as possible. This will break your neck in client/server. We are trying to determine the best platform for Firebird SQL 2.5.2. Our firebird databases are 40-60gb in size and are being accessed by dbase plus 2.6.2 programs. Currently we are running on Windows 2003 Server with dual Intel XEON E5430 quad-core processors and 8gb RAM. This server is being accessed with Windows Remote Desktop. We are in the process of replacing this server with a new server using 2 Intel XEON E5-2640 processors and 16gb of RAM. We are trying to determine whether we should go with Windows or Linux. We also want to consider client/server versus the current model we are using. We would use Intel I7-3770K processors with 8gb of ram for workstations. ++ Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Resources item on the main (top) menu. Try Knowledgebase and FAQ links ! Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com ++ Yahoo! Groups Links mit freundlichen Grüßen, André Knappstein EDV und Controlling ~~ beta Eigenheim- und Grundstücksverwertungsgesellschaft mbH Hafenweg 4 59192 Bergkamen-Rünthe Telefon: +49 2389 9240 140 Telefax: +49 2389 9240 150 e-mail: knappstein@... Amtsgericht Hamm Nr. B 420 Geschäftsführer: Achim Krähling, Dirk Salewski und Matthias Steinhaus USt-IDNr.: DE 125215402
[firebird-support] Re: Best Firebird Platform for our Environment
How do you determine the amount of RAM needed? Is there a benefit from more than 64gb of RAM? --- In firebird-support@yahoogroups.com, ssilouky bill.simpson@... wrote: We are trying to determine the best platform for Firebird SQL 2.5.2. Our firebird databases are 40-60gb in size and are being accessed by dbase plus 2.6.2 programs. Currently we are running on Windows 2003 Server with dual Intel XEON E5430 quad-core processors and 8gb RAM. This server is being accessed with Windows Remote Desktop. We are in the process of replacing this server with a new server using 2 Intel XEON E5-2640 processors and 16gb of RAM. We are trying to determine whether we should go with Windows or Linux. We also want to consider client/server versus the current model we are using. We would use Intel I7-3770K processors with 8gb of ram for workstations.
