Re: [Fis] FIS News
Dear Karl and FIS colleagues,
Many thanks for the comprehensive response. You have made a reference to
the tension between the empirical and the abstract in FIS. I quite
agree, it is one of the essential tensions in any healthy scientific
development (whenever it is possible to maintain it). My tongue-in-cheek
complain was precisely addressed to the usual abscence of such tension
in our discussions, or say, the insufficient presence of the empirical.
For instance, in the current exchange I was mentioning the
ecological-sociological views of Jared Diamond, as one of the most vocal
authors on the collapse of historical societies, even pretty complex
ones. His views on the structural traits involving the complexification
of the daily interactions could be quite interesting to discuss along
the present theme.
Nowadays there also a number of network science studies on
person-to-person interactions, often along cell-phone technologies.
Other more general approaches look for the influence of new technologies
in human relationships (in Xian an excellent presentation on
friendship from an Aristotelian background in the i-society was made
by Michael Patrick). Another interesting angle concerns the studies on
smart cities , how individual life stories are carried out among
energy-material flows coupled with information flows of a new nature.
The contemporary acceleration of artificial information flows
impinging on the individual and the parallel decrease in the standards
of mental health may be a matter of concern --are there any correlations?
Finally, I remake informationally some of the points raised by Karl
below on forestry --what about making sense on the info flows between
heterogeneous species that couple the life cycles, eg, pheromones
between cattle and grass? About the cell, what about the signaling and
communication infostructure that guides the life cycle of each cell? And
about social groups, that's the theme now in question, on how
conversation becomes the essential info flow knitting them. In short,
there are plenty of informational applied themes that can be put in
general language of information science and can help to maintain more
lively and fertile exchanges. Yes, in the mutual creative tension.
best wishes
---Pedro
Karl Javorszky wrote:
Dear FIS,
welcome new colleagues. Pedro has over the years built a scientific
community that is a pleasant and awakening environment for the
participants.
There has always been a tension between the empirical and the abstract
in FIS. The name of the setup is Foundations of Information Science.
It is not easy to speak about foundations in a concrete, specific way.
The fundament is the integral of all that are constructed based on
these fundamental insights and rules. One has to abstract from each of
the applications and find that what is common to all of them to speak
about fundamental truths that are valid in each of the particular
ancounters with reality, the applied research.
Basic science is necessarily abstract. There is a strong
mathematical-logical current also in FIS. The rules of speaking
clearly in a rational dialogue were set up and codified by
Wittgenstein in his Tractatus logico-philosophicus. To transmit an
idea with clarity, one should use such words that have a meaning
commonly agreed on, and while speaking obey the grammatical rules of
the logical language. (By using this technique for contrasting, we can
recognise empty blah-blah, manipulative advertisement, PR sermons
etc., as these are grammatically correct but lack the common agreement
on the content. Then again, we can enjoy opera, drama and maintain
social empathy, if the common understanding is there, even when formal
correctness of a logical language is missing, like in exclamations or
laughter.)
By using natural numbers as tokens for words, and performing tricks on
them, we can discuss possible logical sentences. The grammar of the
sentences will be by all means correct, because we use simple rules
like {=,+,,}, but the common understanding is not present yet in the
necessary extent.
Understanding how societies, economies, the ecosystem, human thinking,
strategies of collaboration work: these are noble goals. On these
fields, we can conduct experiments, observe facts, enjoy empirics.
Sadly, we cannot communicate our findings among each other in the
necessary clarity, because we do not share a common language to
discuss the phenomena in. Previously, we had the concept of God (or
gods or nature, etc.) as an active instance that creates and manages
order, the discovery of which is what we call information. This
generation is too much multicultural to agree on a central cause that
is the principle (G. Bruno: Of Cause, Principle and Unity).
There is order in nature, societies, in human thinking, climate
changes and genetics. We can talk about the central order concept
Re: [Fis] FIS News
Dear FIS,
welcome new colleagues. Pedro has over the years built a scientific
community that is a pleasant and awakening environment for the
participants.
There has always been a tension between the empirical and the abstract in
FIS. The name of the setup is Foundations of Information Science. It is
not easy to speak about foundations in a concrete, specific way. The
fundament is the integral of all that are constructed based on these
fundamental insights and rules. One has to abstract from each of the
applications and find that what is common to all of them to speak about
fundamental truths that are valid in each of the particular ancounters with
reality, the applied research.
Basic science is necessarily abstract. There is a strong
mathematical-logical current also in FIS. The rules of speaking clearly in
a rational dialogue were set up and codified by Wittgenstein in his
Tractatus logico-philosophicus. To transmit an idea with clarity, one
should use such words that have a meaning commonly agreed on, and while
speaking obey the grammatical rules of the logical language. (By using this
technique for contrasting, we can recognise empty blah-blah, manipulative
advertisement, PR sermons etc., as these are grammatically correct but lack
the common agreement on the content. Then again, we can enjoy opera, drama
and maintain social empathy, if the common understanding is there, even
when formal correctness of a logical language is missing, like in
exclamations or laughter.)
By using natural numbers as tokens for words, and performing tricks on
them, we can discuss possible logical sentences. The grammar of the
sentences will be by all means correct, because we use simple rules like
{=,+,,}, but the common understanding is not present yet in the necessary
extent.
Understanding how societies, economies, the ecosystem, human thinking,
strategies of collaboration work: these are noble goals. On these fields,
we can conduct experiments, observe facts, enjoy empirics. Sadly, we cannot
communicate our findings among each other in the necessary clarity, because
we do not share a common language to discuss the phenomena in. Previously,
we had the concept of God (or gods or nature, etc.) as an active instance
that creates and manages order, the discovery of which is what we call
information. This generation is too much multicultural to agree on a
central cause that is the principle (G. Bruno: Of Cause, Principle and
Unity).
There is order in nature, societies, in human thinking, climate changes and
genetics. We can talk about the central order concept and find explanations
(other that God's work) for its realisations, but this talk will have to
be conducted in a fashion that merits the goals expressed in the name of
this group. It is too much complicated listening first to a sociologist
explaining that subgroups marginalise and/or radicalise and can or can not
integrate after x generations, and then, say, to a forestry professional
that fires have also a self-clearing function, and then a biologist talking
about prophase, metaphase and anaphase. They all talk about continuity,
form and order as expressed by diversity within the whole.
Let me maintain the hope that FIS is a place where translations into each
other's languages are welcome and encouraged.
Karl
2013/11/4 Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
Dear FIS colleages,
Some new people from the Xian conference have joined our list --welcome to
all of them. Before coming back to the ongoing discussion, let me briefly
refer to ongoing changes in FIS organization. The *scientific committee*will
be enlarged to incorporate new trends, a *steering
committee* will be established to provide stable management, the
*Secretariat* will be finally in working order, and the *fis web
pages*reformed. The compromise is to implement these changes during coming
months. Information Science is definitely entering a new time, and at FIS
we need a little bit more of organization if we want to keep playing our
role of scientific mentorship, also including matters of research,
publishing, conferences, summer school, etc. Another related news, quite
recent one, refers to the creation of the *Chinese Chapter of
ISIS*organization (
FIS). It will be integrated by the parties in Beijing, Wuhan, Xi'an, and
other regions. At the time being it will be coordinated by Xueshan Yan and
Liu Chang. It will be more amply disclosed during coming weeks.
About the ongoing discussion, why an essentially empirical work is
reinterpreted exclusively towards the most theoretical-abstract? It is not
quite useful. There are very cool aspects of Raquel's work that would
benefit of comments more having the feet on the ground. Then, from those
further applied aspects we could connect with the abstract-theoretical, but
with more fertility than now. I am thinking particularly on Jared
Diamond's work on the environmental and cultural conditions for the
development of
[Fis] FIS News
Dear FIS colleages, Some new people from the Xian conference have joined our list --welcome to all of them. Before coming back to the ongoing discussion, let me briefly refer to ongoing changes in FIS organization. The _scientific committee_ will be enlarged to incorporate new trends, a _steering committee_ will be established to provide stable management, the _Secretariat_ will be finally in working order, and the _fis web pages_ reformed. The compromise is to implement these changes during coming months. Information Science is definitely entering a new time, and at FIS we need a little bit more of organization if we want to keep playing our role of scientific mentorship, also including matters of research, publishing, conferences, summer school, etc. Another related news, quite recent one, refers to the creation of the _Chinese Chapter of ISIS_ organization ( FIS). It will be integrated by the parties in Beijing, Wuhan, Xi'an, and other regions. At the time being it will be coordinated by Xueshan Yan and Liu Chang. It will be more amply disclosed during coming weeks. About the ongoing discussion, why an essentially empirical work is reinterpreted exclusively towards the most theoretical-abstract? It is not quite useful. There are very cool aspects of Raquel's work that would benefit of comments more having the feet on the ground. Then, from those further applied aspects we could connect with the abstract-theoretical, but with more fertility than now. I am thinking particularly on Jared Diamond's work on the environmental and cultural conditions for the development of social complexity. Do these conditions dovetail with some of the mental/numerical thresholds of the type argued by Raquel and Jorge (and myself)? I think so. best wishes --Pedro - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
A find it very strange to transform the FIS Conference into a private party. Of course anyone can throw a party, but how come is this one now the FIS-2013 Conference ?! ---Julio Stern At the time being, to my knowledge (I could not follow very well the process), only the members of the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants. Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:28:45 +0200 To: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch; pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es; fis@listas.unizar.es From: darv...@iif.hu Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) Dear Pedro, Joe, and all FISers, Great news! As I notified you before, the Symmetry Festival 2013 (Delft, The Netherlands, 2-6 August) http://symmetry.hu/festival2013.html is open and glad to host a FIS symposium on symmetries in information studies. The Festival consists of a series of symposia, and FIS would well fit among them. You are welcome! Best wishes, Gyuri . Symmetry Festival 2013, Delft, 2-7 August Download and print the poster in A3 size, post it at your department, throughout your parent institution, and distribute among colleagues outside. Thank you for your contribution to publicize the event! . A recent publication online: Physical consequences of a new gauge-symmetry and its associated conservation law . Greetings from Budapest __ Gyorgy Darvas E-mail ; Skype: darvasgy; S Y M M E T R I O N Address: 29 Eotvos St., Budapest, H-1067 Hungary Phone: 36 (1) 302-6965; Monograph: Symmetry; Course of lectures on Symmetry, Course of lectures on Interactions in Kinetic Fields and the Conservation of IFCS ___ ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
Dear Joseph and FIS colleagues,
Thanks for the friendly message. Let me introduce you all the organizing team
of the Open University conference: Magnus Ramage, David Chapman, and Chris
Bissell --they did a great job there and we are fortunate that they have joined
our list too. As I invited them during the conference, they could chair our
next discussion session, in a few weeks or days if they wish. A short text of
around 500 or 800 words with some focus in themes discussed at Milton Keynes
would suffice to kick off the discussion. As other people have recently joined
the list, all of them should remind our strict limitation of a maximum of two
messages per week. This is a list emphasizing slow thinking and scholarship.
By the way, my management experience during all these months has lead me to
think and start work on a new theme: the information flow in complex
organizations. The properties or limits of natural communication (conversation)
in our social groups determine the structural patterns of complex bureaucratic
organizations... terrible committees included! Next weeks I will post more on
that.
best wishes
--Pedro
- Mensaje original -
De: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
Fecha: Viernes, 12 de Abril de 2013, 7:12 pm
Asunto: RE: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
A: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es, fis@listas.unizar.es br
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Dear Pedro,
Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive, containing
much information . . .
Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about the the new,
exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton Keynes Conference.
Best wishes,
Joseph
Message d'origine
De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
Date: 12.04.2013 11:02
À: fis@listas.unizar.es
Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
Dear FIS Friends,
Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said several times, my
science management duties are killing not only my time but also my nerve
(well, not completely!). Imagine what is happening with the financing
and organization of Spanish science these years...
Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information Science
endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in Milton
Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information (the
difference that makes a difference). Quite exciting discussions on our
most dear themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed here.
The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to lead
a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the conceptual
explorations addressed in their conference.
And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013,
the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held
this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have
followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference centered
in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific
community. At the time being, to my knowledge (I could not follow very
well the process), only the members of the ISIS board have been enlisted
as foreign participants. But given that there will be several absences,
interested FIS parties might ask about their possible participation.
The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again I have to
apologize for not having posted this info before (info glut!). In any
case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ),
leading organizer, and member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be
happy to respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate the
process.
Best wishes to all
---Pedro
-
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 ( 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-
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fis@listas.unizar.es
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
Dear Pedro, Joe, and all FISers, Great news! As I notified you before, the Symmetry Festival 2013 (Delft, The Netherlands, 2-6 August) http://symmetry.hu/festival2013.html is open and glad to host a FIS symposium on symmetries in information studies. The Festival consists of a series of symposia, and FIS would well fit among them. You are welcome! Best wishes, Gyuri . Symmetry Festival 2013, Delft, 2-7 August Download and print the poster in A3 size, post it at your department, throughout your parent institution, and distribute among colleagues outside. Thank you for your contribution to publicize the event! . A recent publication online: Physical consequences of a new gauge-symmetry and its associated conservation law . Greetings from Budapest __ Gyorgy Darvas E-mail ; Skype: darvasgy; S Y M M E T R I O N Address: 29 Eotvos St., Budapest, H-1067 Hungary Phone: 36 (1) 302-6965; Monograph: Symmetry; Course of lectures on Symmetry, Course of lectures on Interactions in Kinetic Fields and the Conservation of IFCS ___ ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
[Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
Dear FIS Friends, Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said several times, my science management duties are killing not only my time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine what is happening with the financing and organization of Spanish science these years... Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information (the difference that makes a difference). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed here. The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in their conference. And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference centered in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific community. At the time being, to my knowledge (I could not follow very well the process), only the members of the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants. But given that there will be several absences, interested FIS parties might ask about their possible participation. The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again I have to apologize for not having posted this info before (info glut!). In any case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer, and member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate the process. Best wishes to all ---Pedro - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
Dear Pedro, Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive, containing much information . . . Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about the the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton Keynes Conference. Best wishes, Joseph Message d'origine De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Date: 12.04.2013 11:02 À: fis@listas.unizar.es Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) Dear FIS Friends, Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said several times, my science management duties are killing not only my time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine what is happening with the financing and organization of Spanish science these years... Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information (the difference that makes a difference). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed here. The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in their conference. And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference centered in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific community. At the time being, to my knowledge (I could not follow very well the process), only the members of the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants. But given that there will be several absences, interested FIS parties might ask about their possible participation. The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again I have to apologize for not having posted this info before (info glut!). In any case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer, and member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate the process. Best wishes to all ---Pedro - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (amp; 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
