Asunto:         [Fis] NEW DISCUSSION SESSION--TOPOLOGICAL BRAIN
Fecha:  Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:46:32 +0100
De:     Karl Javorszky <karl.javors...@gmail.com>
Responder a:    karl.javors...@gmail.com
Para:   fis <fis@listas.unizar.es>
CC:     Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>, tozziart...@libero.it



Topology

The session so far has raised the points: meta-communication, subject-matter, order, spaces.

a.)     Meta-communication

Gordana’s summary explicates the need to have a system of references that FIS can use to discuss whatever it wishes to discuss, be it the equivalence between energy and information or the concept of space in the human brain. Whatever the personal background, interests or intellectual creations of the members of FIS, we each have been taught addition, multiplication, division and the like. We also know how to read a map and remember well where we had put a thing as we are going to retrieve it. When discussing the intricate, philosophical points which are common to all formulations of this session, it may be helpful to use such words and procedures that are well-known to each one of us, while describing what we do while we use topology.

b.)    Subject-matter

Topology is managed by much older structures of the central nervous system than those that manage speech, counting, abstract ideas. Animals and small children remember their way to food and other attractions. Children discover and use topology far before they can count. Topology is a primitive ancestor to mathematics; its ideas and methods are archaic and may appear as lacking in refinement and intelligence.

c.)     Order

There is no need to discuss whether Nature is well-ordered or not. Our brain is surely extremely well ordered, otherwise we had seizures, tics, disintegrative features. In discussing topology we can make use of the condition that everything we investigate is extremely well ordered. We may not be able to understand Nature, but we may get an idea about how our brain functions, in its capacity as an extremely well ordered system. We can make a half-step towards modelling artificial intelligence by understanding at first, how artificial instincts, and their conflicts, can be modelled. Animals apparently utilise a different layer of reality of the world while building up their orientation in it to that which humans perceive as important. The path of understanding how primitive instincts work begins with a half-step of dumbing down. It is no more interesting, how many they are, now we only look at where it is relative to how it appears, compared with the others.

d.)    Spaces

Out of sequences, planes naturally evolve. Whether out of the planes spaces can be constructed, depends on the kinds of planes and of common axes. Now the natural numbers come in handy, as we can demonstrate to each other on natural numbers, how in a well-ordered collection the actual mechanism of place changes creates by itself two rectangular, Euclidean, spaces. These can be merged into one common space, but in that, there are four variants of every certainty coming from the position within the sequence. Furthermore, all these spaces are transcended by two planes. The discussion about an oriented entity in a space of n dimensions can be given a frame, placed into a context that is neutral and shared as a common knowledge by all members of FIS.


2016. nov. 29. 15:15 ezt írta ("Karl Javorszky" <karl.javors...@gmail.com <mailto:karl.javors...@gmail.com>>):

   Topology

   The session so far has raised the points: meta-communication,
   subject-matter, order, spaces.

   a.)     Meta-communication

   Gordana’s summary explicates the need to have a system of references
   that FIS can use to discuss whatever it wishes to discuss, be it the
   equivalence between energy and information or the concept of space
   in the human brain. Whatever the personal background, interests or
   intellectual creations of the members of FIS, we each have been
   taught addition, multiplication, division and the like. We also know
   how to read a map and remember well where we had put a thing as we
   are going to retrieve it. When discussing the intricate,
   philosophical points which are common to all formulations of this
   session, it may be helpful to use such words and procedures that are
   well-known to each one of us, while describing what we do while we
   use topology.

   b.)    Subject-matter

   Topology is managed by much older structures of the central nervous
   system than those that manage speech, counting, abstract ideas.
   Animals and small children remember their way to food and other
   attractions. Children discover and use topology far before they can
   count. Topology is a primitive ancestor to mathematics; its ideas
   and methods are archaic and may appear as lacking in refinement and
   intelligence.

   c.)     Order

   There is no need to discuss whether Nature is well-ordered or not.
   Our brain is surely extremely well ordered, otherwise we had
   seizures, tics, disintegrative features. In discussing topology we
   can make use of the condition that everything we investigate is
   extremely well ordered. We may not be able to understand Nature, but
   we may get an idea about how our brain functions, in its capacity as
   an extremely well ordered system. We can make a half-step towards
   modelling artificial intelligence by understanding at first, how
   artificial instincts, and their conflicts, can be modelled. Animals
   apparently utilise a different layer of reality of the world while
   building up their orientation in it to that which humans perceive as
   important. The path of understanding how primitive instincts work
   begins with a half-step of dumbing down. It is no more interesting,
   how many they are, now we only look at where it is relative to how
   it appears, compared with the others.

   d.)    Spaces

   Out of sequences, planes naturally evolve. Whether out of the planes
   spaces can be constructed, depends on the kinds of planes and of
   common axes. Now the natural numbers come in handy, as we can
   demonstrate to each other on natural numbers, how in a well-ordered
   collection the actual mechanism of place changes creates by itself
   two rectangular, Euclidean, spaces. These can be merged into one
   common space, but in that, there are four variants of every
   certainty coming from the position within the sequence. Furthermore,
   all these spaces are transcended by two planes. The discussion about
   an oriented entity in a space of n dimensions can be given a frame,
   placed into a context that is neutral and shared as a common
   knowledge by all members of FIS.


   2016. nov. 25. 14:44 ezt írta ( <tozziart...@libero.it
   <mailto:tozziart...@libero.it>>):

       Dear Joseph,
       The Borsuk-Ulam theorem looks like a translucent glass sphere
       between a light source and our eyes: we watch two lights on the
       sphere surface instead of one. But the two lights are not just
       images, they are also real with observable properties, such as
       intensity and diameter.
       Until the sphere lies between your eyes and the light source,
       the lights you can see are two (and it is valid also for every
       objective observer), it's not just a trick of your imagination
       or a Kantian a priori.
       Therefore, the link between topology and energy/information is
       very strong.  If we just think the facts and the events of the
       world in terms of projections, we are able to quantitatively
       elucidate puzzling and counterintuitive phenomena, such as, for
       example, quantum entanglement
       https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10773-016-2998-7
       <https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10773-016-2998-7>

       Therefore, the 'eternal' discussio­n of whether geometry­ or
       energy (call it dynamics, informational entropy, or whatsoever)­
       is more fundamental ­in the universe, does not stand anymore:
       both geometry and energy describe the same phenomena, although
       with different languages.  In physical terms, we could say that
       geometry and energy are 'dual' theories, e.g., they are
       interchangeable in the description of real facts and events.



       --
       Inviato da Libero Mail per Android

       venerdì, 25 novembre 2016, 00:28PM +01:00 da Joseph Brenner
       joe.bren...@bluewin.ch <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>:

           Dear All,
           Pedro should be thanked already for this new Session, even
           as we welcome Andrew and Alexander. The depth of your work
           facilitates rigorous discussion of serious philosophical as
           well as scientific issues.
           In Pedro's note of 2016.11.24 there is the following:
           "Somehow, the projection of brain "metastable dynamics"
           (Fingelkurts) to higher dimensionalities could provide new
           integrative possibilities for information processing. And
           that marriage between topology and dynamics would also pave
           the way to new evolutionary discussions on the emergence of
           the "imagined present" of our minds."
           What Pedro calls here "the marriage between topology and
           dynamics" reminds one of the 'eternal' discussion of whether
           geometry or energy (dynamics) is more fundamental in the
           universe. I just suggest that there are alternative terms to
           focus on and describe the interaction between topology and
           dynamics that are more - dynamic, and make an emergence a
           more logical consequence of that interaction.
           Best wishes,
           Joseph
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