Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, bob logan wrote: Stanley -I have often had this thought. Better to compete on the football pitch than the battlefield. The term hero is used for those that excel in either form of battle. Bob Bob, It's not that I object to (American) football as an ersatz for warfare. Far from it! What bothers me, however, is when some of my countrymen conflate warfare with a form of football! (E.g., Tonight CBS brings you live -- the War from the Gulf!) Peace, Bob U. - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biological Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle (msg. from R. Capurro)
Mensaje original Asunto: Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle (msg. from Jacob Lee) Fecha: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:49:20 +0200 De: Rafael Capurro raf...@capurro.de Responder a:raf...@capurro.de Para: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es, fis@listas.unizar.es fis@listas.unizar.es fis@listas.unizar.es Referencias: 4c3c3ae4.8000...@aragon.es 20100713064753.12536drvrdist...@www.cbl.umces.edu 4c44674d.7030...@aragon.es aanlktind9fkdc3trkvsin5umfbyzljhtcvp8gv62i...@mail.gmail.com 4c458ec2.3040...@aragon.es 4c46bd07.6030...@aragon.es Dear Pedro, remember also Ortega's famous essay El origen deportivo del estado where he celebrates sport as a biological activity going beyond the Darwinian perspective that looks at life from anutilitarian perspective of adaptation and survival and compares it with the clown and the Greek god Pan and his playful and luxurious cosmic activity. According to Ortega, the evolutionary change from non-organized horde (horda informe) to tribal organization means giving primacy to the young men who look for the women of other tribes and with it to war, discipline, authority and ascetism (askesis=exercises and self-control). This young men club is the origin of exogamy, war, autoritarian organization, discipline, law, cultural association, dancing/carneval and secret society! The origin of the state is neither the worker nor the intellectual nor the priest nor the dealer but the lover, the worrier and the sportsman. Social institutions as the file or the fratria and the hatairía in Ancient Greece preceeded the organization of the polis and are related to sport and war. Later in the Roman society we get the corporation of the salii (meaning to spring or dance) closely related to the god Mars, and the con-sules as the ones who dance together. See also this short contribution by Tomás Bolano: http://www.e-torredebabel.com/OrtegayGasset/Estudios/Bolano-ElDeporte-LujoVital.htm And... yes, we need social grooming as a kind of non utilitarian and luxurious activity probably also to de-stress the brain. It is not clear to me when and why social complexity evolves into chaotic complication blocking organic and social processes (such as a foul in soccer etc.). I am sure that there are mathematical models for this. Maybe sports and wars can be explained in an evolutionary way in which humans look for forms or structures of playing together. I know that this terminology is morally (and socially) problematic. best regards Rafael (msg. to FIS from Jacob Lee) Richard Sipes' classic study found a direct correlation between combative sports and violent or war-like societies: SIPES, RICHARD G. 1973. War, Sports and Aggression: An Empirical Test of Two Rival Theories . American Anthropologist 75, no. 1: 64-86. doi:10.1525/aa.1973.75.1.02a00040. Jacob - At 08:12 PM 19/07/2010, Stanley N Salthe wrote: Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. Apparently societies with less contact and competitve sports also tend to be less violent. My source: E.O. Wilson, On Human Nature, chapter on aggression. That doesn't defeat the connection of an alternative, though, in constitutionally more violent societies. John -- Professor John Collier colli...@ukzn.ac.za Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South Africa T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 http://www.ukzn.ac.za/undphil/collier/index.html -- Professor John Collier, Acting HoS colli...@ukzn.ac.za Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South Africa T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 http://www.ukzn.ac.za/undphil/collier/index.html Stanley N Salthe escribió: Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. STAN ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Dear Wolfgang, Rafael, Joseph... and FIS Collegues, Very briefly, as I am incurring in a forbidden three per week, I see the general problem with ICT social networks as an information glut. It is very similar to the parallel epidemics of obesity in affluent contemporary societies. In the same way that our bodies are not very well equipped for the sedentary life style and the overconsumption of food --and this is clearly written in the genes selected during our long history as hunter-gatherers-- we are also ill-equipped to deal with the diminishing structure of meaningful social bonds around us and the increase of junk information. Parallel to obesity, there is a current, silent epidemics of loneliness, depression, psychogenic pain, suicide... How to counter that? Very difficult problem, but knowing better what is the sociotype, or say the ranges of social structures akin to our genetic inheritance, would help to identify better cultural alternatives and lifestyles, including better uses for ICT presumably. A careful discussion should involve social networks (network science), social brain hypothesis, evolutionary paleoanthropology, neuroscience, ICT, cultural analysis, etc., and above all and a nice information science integration. We are far from knowing /Homo informationalis! /best / Pedro / Wolfgang Hofkirchner escribió: dear pedro, what you mention here is just what bothers me since long. in the scientific literature about the internet (both empirical and kind of philosophical) there are two positions to be found: the first position is the optimistic one in which the potentialities of the new media are praised and the technical support for establishing new ties (bonds with people) are appreciated. the second position is rather cultural-critical and bemoans the rubbish that is multiplied by the net and the gadgets that mediate that. i, for my part, guess, the truth is a little bit more complicated. the new ties you can establish are not only strong ties that you strengthen by technology (e.g. when i was abroad i skyped with my family) but also and predominantly weak ties that promote a kind of irresponsibility because you can enter a community and – that's more important – leave it whenever you want without sanctions being there. thus my research question: how can we shape icts in order to foster real communities? wolfgang http://hofkirchner.uti.at/ Am 21.07.2010 um 12:10 schrieb Pedro C. Marijuan: Dear Rafael, Bob, and FIS Colleagues Thanks a lot for the erudite comment and the elegant Latin. I quite agree about that challenging aspect. However, I keep thinking that the whole new communication technologies are adding to the decreasing sociotype of individuals in todays' society. Like TV in the previous generation, they provide an easy amusement but at the cost of a tighter budget in the daily time needed for socialization. Like other Anthropoids (following the Social Brain Hypothesis) we need around 20 % of time devoted to social grooming, to languaging, laughing etc. in a variety of social groups. Do not paying on a daily basis this evolutionary debt conduces to disappointment, frustration, depression, unhappiness... My point is that the whole ITC are bringing extra opportunities for a variety of e-contacts but at the same time are diminishing the social grooming. This could be searched out throughout the notion of sociotype summarizing the connective structure around the individual, and would need specific inter-multi-cultural researches, and above all achieving more concretion around a series of indicators. Bob's very positive comments about ascendancy in weighed graphs are much appreciated. In next exchanges I would like to introduce some further ideas. Maybe human social networks as gauged by the sociotype could also benefit of the ascendancy approach (metrics abouts parenthood, relatives, friendships, acquaintances, etc.) Who knows. About sports and wars, I think Tom Stonier had already published in this very list about the subject (1997-98?), or was it in some FIS Proceedings? all the best Pedro Rafael Capurro escribió: Dear Pedro and all, in an article selected by the Sueddeutsche Zeitung of The New York Times of today (July 19) with the title The Mediuim matters (by David Brook) there is a discussion on Nicholas Carr's book The Shalows where he argues that theInternet is leading to a short-attention-span culture. This is apparently the old discussion internet vs. book culture but in fact the author points to an essay by Joseph Epstein in which he (Epstein) distinguishes between beeing well informed, being hip and being cultivated. The Internet culture is an egalitarian culture, appropriate for being well informed and being hip (or up to date) , while when you enter the world of books you are confronted with the greater minds and respecting the authority of the teacher. The Internet culture may produce better conversationalists,
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Pedro -- This sentiment seems odd to me. This is because I have retired to an out-of-the-way rural area and no longer travel to conferences, and so my only contact with other than family members is through e-mail, including lists. And my wife does all our communications with the locals. I do NOT feel lonely, etc. at all. It seems like the perfect setup to me! Every day I find new messages from all over the world. In what way is my situation different from all those lonely persons? Could it be my 'cold' Scandinavian genome? Or simply my age? STAN On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear Wolfgang, Rafael, Joseph... and FIS Collegues, Very briefly, as I am incurring in a forbidden three per week, I see the general problem with ICT social networks as an information glut. It is very similar to the parallel epidemics of obesity in affluent contemporary societies. In the same way that our bodies are not very well equipped for the sedentary life style and the overconsumption of food --and this is clearly written in the genes selected during our long history as hunter-gatherers-- we are also ill-equipped to deal with the diminishing structure of meaningful social bonds around us and the increase of junk information. Parallel to obesity, there is a current, silent epidemics of loneliness, depression, psychogenic pain, suicide... How to counter that? Very difficult problem, but knowing better what is the sociotype, or say the ranges of social structures akin to our genetic inheritance, would help to identify better cultural alternatives and lifestyles, including better uses for ICT presumably. A careful discussion should involve social networks (network science), social brain hypothesis, evolutionary paleoanthropology, neuroscience, ICT, cultural analysis, etc., and above all and a nice information science integration. We are far from knowing *Homo informationalis! *best * Pedro * Wolfgang Hofkirchner escribió: dear pedro, what you mention here is just what bothers me since long. in the scientific literature about the internet (both empirical and kind of philosophical) there are two positions to be found: the first position is the optimistic one in which the potentialities of the new media are praised and the technical support for establishing new ties (bonds with people) are appreciated. the second position is rather cultural-critical and bemoans the rubbish that is multiplied by the net and the gadgets that mediate that. i, for my part, guess, the truth is a little bit more complicated. the new ties you can establish are not only strong ties that you strengthen by technology (e.g. when i was abroad i skyped with my family) but also and predominantly weak ties that promote a kind of irresponsibility because you can enter a community and – that's more important – leave it whenever you want without sanctions being there. thus my research question: how can we shape icts in order to foster real communities? wolfgang http://hofkirchner.uti.at/ Am 21.07.2010 um 12:10 schrieb Pedro C. Marijuan: Dear Rafael, Bob, and FIS Colleagues Thanks a lot for the erudite comment and the elegant Latin. I quite agree about that challenging aspect. However, I keep thinking that the whole new communication technologies are adding to the decreasing sociotype of individuals in todays' society. Like TV in the previous generation, they provide an easy amusement but at the cost of a tighter budget in the daily time needed for socialization. Like other Anthropoids (following the Social Brain Hypothesis) we need around 20 % of time devoted to social grooming, to languaging, laughing etc. in a variety of social groups. Do not paying on a daily basis this evolutionary debt conduces to disappointment, frustration, depression, unhappiness... My point is that the whole ITC are bringing extra opportunities for a variety of e-contacts but at the same time are diminishing the social grooming. This could be searched out throughout the notion of sociotype summarizing the connective structure around the individual, and would need specific inter-multi-cultural researches, and above all achieving more concretion around a series of indicators. Bob's very positive comments about ascendancy in weighed graphs are much appreciated. In next exchanges I would like to introduce some further ideas. Maybe human social networks as gauged by the sociotype could also benefit of the ascendancy approach (metrics abouts parenthood, relatives, friendships, acquaintances, etc.) Who knows. About sports and wars, I think Tom Stonier had already published in this very list about the subject (1997-98?), or was it in some FIS Proceedings? all the best Pedro Rafael Capurro escribió: Dear Pedro and all, in an article selected by the Sueddeutsche Zeitung of The New York Times of today (July 19) with the title The Mediuim matters
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Dear Rafael, Bob, and FIS Colleagues Thanks a lot for the erudite comment and the elegant Latin. I quite agree about that challenging aspect. However, I keep thinking that the whole new communication technologies are adding to the decreasing sociotype of individuals in todays' society. Like TV in the previous generation, they provide an easy amusement but at the cost of a tighter budget in the daily time needed for socialization. Like other Anthropoids (following the Social Brain Hypothesis) we need around 20 % of time devoted to social grooming, to languaging, laughing etc. in a variety of social groups. Do not paying on a daily basis this evolutionary debt conduces to disappointment, frustration, depression, unhappiness... My point is that the whole ITC are bringing extra opportunities for a variety of e-contacts but at the same time are diminishing the social grooming. This could be searched out throughout the notion of sociotype summarizing the connective structure around the individual, and would need specific inter-multi-cultural researches, and above all achieving more concretion around a series of indicators. Bob's very positive comments about ascendancy in weighed graphs are much appreciated. In next exchanges I would like to introduce some further ideas. Maybe human social networks as gauged by the sociotype could also benefit of the ascendancy approach (metrics abouts parenthood, relatives, friendships, acquaintances, etc.) Who knows. About sports and wars, I think Tom Stonier had already published in this very list about the subject (1997-98?), or was it in some FIS Proceedings? all the best Pedro Rafael Capurro escribió: Dear Pedro and all, in an article selected by the Sueddeutsche Zeitung of The New York Times of today (July 19) with the title The Mediuim matters (by David Brook) there is a discussion on Nicholas Carr's book The Shalows where he argues that theInternet is leading to a short-attention-span culture. This is apparently the old discussion internet vs. book culture but in fact the author points to an essay by Joseph Epstein in which he (Epstein) distinguishes between beeing well informed, being hip and being cultivated. The Internet culture is an egalitarian culture, appropriate for being well informed and being hip (or up to date) , while when you enter the world of books you are confronted with the greater minds and respecting the authority of the teacher. The Internet culture may produce better conversationalists, but the literary culture still produces better students. The challenge being how to guild an Internet counterculture that will better attracht people to serious learning. We live in the culture of the spectacle (Guy Debord) which is egalitarian but what we see is the product of a highly hierarchical structure of the best. The challenge is the how to build a counterculture within the egalitarian information society that attract people not only to serious learnig but also to high level practices in other fields such as sport, music etc. This group is an example of such a counterculture within the egalitarian internet. By the way, the Latin word informatio had originally the meaning of culture or (German) Bildung also in the humanistic sense. Cicero writes in Pro Archia (Ch.3) : Nam, ut primum ex pueris excessit Archias atque ab iis artibus, quibus aetas puerilis ad humanitatem informari solet, se ad scribendi studium contulit, primum Antiochiae (...) For when first Archias grew out of childhood, and out of the studies of those arts by which young boys are gradually trained and refined, he devoted himself to the study of writing. First of all at Antioch (...) which was the center of knowledge of the whole region. And this is the text on the Internet http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/texts/latin/classical/cicero/proarchia1e.html quod erat demonstrandum best Rafael -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle (msg. from J. Collier)
At 08:12 PM 19/07/2010, Stanley N Salthe wrote: Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. Apparently societies with less contact and competitve sports also tend to be less violent. My source: E.O. Wilson, On Human Nature, chapter on aggression. That doesn't defeat the connection of an alternative, though, in constitutionally more violent societies. John -- Professor John Collier colli...@ukzn.ac.za Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South Africa T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 http://www.ukzn.ac.za/undphil/collier/index.html -- Professor John Collier, Acting HoS colli...@ukzn.ac.za Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South Africa T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 http://www.ukzn.ac.za/undphil/collier/index.html Stanley N Salthe escribió: Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. STAN On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Looking for an informational explanation of soccer, or other sports, as was asking Joseph, one can look at the internal side of the event. Then, as Jorge and Bob have done, one can discuss about the panorama of networking relationships or the ascendancy of the different elements. While agreeing with the interest of these approaches, one can also look towards the outside and ask about the social importance attributed to such type of spectacles. It is interesting that today a lot of economic activities, like sports, may be ascribed to ephemeral information production --think of entertainment, news, fashions, e-networks, communications, tourism, etc. Maybe this is the fastest growing segment, even in spite of the global crisis. Why the increasing predominance of panem et circenses? An speculative point may be that complex societies are caught into a information paradox. The higher they grow in their aggregate complexity the lower the structure of basic social relations (and interesting information) around the individual. According to Dunbar's social brain hypothesis, these complex societies deviate progressively from the evolutionary networking structure of our species. Thus info surrogates of whatever type are more and more necessary for the individual and for the society as a whole, although probably they are working worse and worse. If this is so, it makes sense that in the information era depression has become the first incapacitating pathology (above flu). Unfortunately, the victory at the world championship has been so ephemeral! best wishes Pedro PS. As a question to Karl: in what extent are directed graphs (or generic networks) equivalent to multidimensional partitions? Would it make sense the description of ascendancy in terms of partitions? Robert Ulanowicz escribió: Dear Jorge and Fis members: The method is intriguing, but rather ad-hoc. I and colleagues in marine science have directly used information-theoretic indexes to evaluate the dynamically most important nodes and links in a quantified network. I'm convinced it could be applied as well to players on a team: Ulanowicz, R.E. and D. Baird. 1999. Nutrient controls on ecosystem dynamics: The Chesapeake mesohaline community. J. Mar. Sys. 19:159-172 The best, Bob Ulanowicz - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu mailto:u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan http://www.cbl.umces.edu/%7Eulan -- Quoting Jorge Navarro López jnavarro.i...@aragon.es mailto:jnavarro.i...@aragon.es: Dear FIS collegaes, Hi! This is my first posting in the list. My name is Jorge Navarro and I am working with Pedro on Systems Biology and Network Science. Following with Joseph proposal I have found an interesting paper about a satisfactory theory of information applicable to teamwork sports: *Quantifying the Performance of Individual Players in a Team
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Dear FISers, Looking for an informational explanation of soccer, or other sports, as was asking Joseph, one can look at the internal side of the event. Then, as Jorge and Bob have done, one can discuss about the panorama of networking relationships or the ascendancy of the different elements. While agreeing with the interest of these approaches, one can also look towards the outside and ask about the social importance attributed to such type of spectacles. It is interesting that today a lot of economic activities, like sports, may be ascribed to ephemeral information production --think of entertainment, news, fashions, e-networks, communications, tourism, etc. Maybe this is the fastest growing segment, even in spite of the global crisis. Why the increasing predominance of panem et circenses? An speculative point may be that complex societies are caught into a information paradox. The higher they grow in their aggregate complexity the lower the structure of basic social relations (and interesting information) around the individual. According to Dunbar's social brain hypothesis, these complex societies deviate progressively from the evolutionary networking structure of our species. Thus info surrogates of whatever type are more and more necessary for the individual and for the society as a whole, although probably they are working worse and worse. If this is so, it makes sense that in the information era depression has become the first incapacitating pathology (above flu). Unfortunately, the victory at the world championship has been so ephemeral! best wishes Pedro PS. As a question to Karl: in what extent are directed graphs (or generic networks) equivalent to multidimensional partitions? Would it make sense the description of ascendancy in terms of partitions? Robert Ulanowicz escribió: Dear Jorge and Fis members: The method is intriguing, but rather ad-hoc. I and colleagues in marine science have directly used information-theoretic indexes to evaluate the dynamically most important nodes and links in a quantified network. I'm convinced it could be applied as well to players on a team: Ulanowicz, R.E. and D. Baird. 1999. Nutrient controls on ecosystem dynamics: The Chesapeake mesohaline community. J. Mar. Sys. 19:159-172 The best, Bob Ulanowicz - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- Quoting Jorge Navarro López jnavarro.i...@aragon.es: Dear FIS collegaes, Hi! This is my first posting in the list. My name is Jorge Navarro and I am working with Pedro on Systems Biology and Network Science. Following with Joseph proposal I have found an interesting paper about a satisfactory theory of information applicable to teamwork sports: *Quantifying the Performance of Individual Players in a Team Activity* http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010937 I think that formally one can say a lot about what teamship activities become interesting and exciting to watch, and what other activities are dull and boring. I was playing soccer myself until a few years ago (forward), like Villa :-), and I am very interested in the informational side of sports, soccer of course. VIVA ESPAÑA!!! Kind Regards Jorge -- ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Dear Pedro and all, in an article selected by the Sueddeutsche Zeitung of The New York Times of today (July 19) with the title The Mediuim matters (by David Brook) there is a discussion on Nicholas Carr's book The Shalows where he argues that theInternet is leading to a short-attention-span culture. This is apparently the old discussion internet vs. book culture but in fact the author points to an essay by Joseph Epstein in which he (Epstein) distinguishes between beeing well informed, being hip and being cultivated. The Internet culture is an egalitarian culture, appropriate for being well informed and being hip (or up to date) , while when you enter the world of books you are confronted with the greater minds and respecting the authority of the teacher. The Internet culture may produce better conversationalists, but the literary culture still produces better students. The challenge being how to guild an Internet counterculture that will better attracht people to serious learning. We live in the culture of the spectacle (Guy Debord) which is egalitarian but what we see is the product of a highly hierarchical structure of the best. The challenge is the how to build a counterculture within the egalitarian information society that attract people not only to serious learnig but also to high level practices in other fields such as sport, music etc. This group is an example of such a counterculture within the egalitarian internet. By the way, the Latin word informatio had originally the meaning of culture or (German) Bildung also in the humanistic sense. Cicero writes in Pro Archia (Ch.3) : Nam, ut primum ex pueris excessit Archias atque ab iis artibus, quibus aetas puerilis ad humanitatem informari solet, se ad scribendi studium contulit, primum Antiochiae (...) For when first Archias grew out of childhood, and out of the studies of those arts by which young boys are gradually trained and refined, he devoted himself to the study of writing. First of all at Antioch (...) which was the center of knowledge of the whole region. And this is the text on the Internet http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/texts/latin/classical/cicero/proarchia1e.html quod erat demonstrandum best Rafael Dear FISers, Looking for an informational explanation of soccer, or other sports, as was asking Joseph, one can look at the internal side of the event. Then, as Jorge and Bob have done, one can discuss about the panorama of networking relationships or the ascendancy of the different elements. While agreeing with the interest of these approaches, one can also look towards the outside and ask about the social importance attributed to such type of spectacles. It is interesting that today a lot of economic activities, like sports, may be ascribed to ephemeral information production --think of entertainment, news, fashions, e-networks, communications, tourism, etc. Maybe this is the fastest growing segment, even in spite of the global crisis. Why the increasing predominance of panem et circenses? An speculative point may be that complex societies are caught into a information paradox. The higher they grow in their aggregate complexity the lower the structure of basic social relations (and interesting information) around the individual. According to Dunbar's social brain hypothesis, these complex societies deviate progressively from the evolutionary networking structure of our species. Thus info surrogates of whatever type are more and more necessary for the individual and for the society as a whole, although probably they are working worse and worse. If this is so, it makes sense that in the information era depression has become the first incapacitating pathology (above flu). Unfortunately, the victory at the world championship has been so ephemeral! best wishes Pedro PS. As a question to Karl: in what extent are directed graphs (or generic networks) equivalent to multidimensional partitions? Would it make sense the description of ascendancy in terms of partitions? Robert Ulanowicz escribió: Dear Jorge and Fis members: The method is intriguing, but rather ad-hoc. I and colleagues in marine science have directly used information-theoretic indexes to evaluate the dynamically most important nodes and links in a quantified network. I'm convinced it could be applied as well to players on a team: Ulanowicz, R.E. and D. Baird. 1999. Nutrient controls on ecosystem dynamics: The Chesapeake mesohaline community. J. Mar. Sys. 19:159-172 The best, Bob Ulanowicz - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. STAN On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Looking for an informational explanation of soccer, or other sports, as was asking Joseph, one can look at the internal side of the event. Then, as Jorge and Bob have done, one can discuss about the panorama of networking relationships or the ascendancy of the different elements. While agreeing with the interest of these approaches, one can also look towards the outside and ask about the social importance attributed to such type of spectacles. It is interesting that today a lot of economic activities, like sports, may be ascribed to ephemeral information production --think of entertainment, news, fashions, e-networks, communications, tourism, etc. Maybe this is the fastest growing segment, even in spite of the global crisis. Why the increasing predominance of panem et circenses? An speculative point may be that complex societies are caught into a information paradox. The higher they grow in their aggregate complexity the lower the structure of basic social relations (and interesting information) around the individual. According to Dunbar's social brain hypothesis, these complex societies deviate progressively from the evolutionary networking structure of our species. Thus info surrogates of whatever type are more and more necessary for the individual and for the society as a whole, although probably they are working worse and worse. If this is so, it makes sense that in the information era depression has become the first incapacitating pathology (above flu). Unfortunately, the victory at the world championship has been so ephemeral! best wishes Pedro PS. As a question to Karl: in what extent are directed graphs (or generic networks) equivalent to multidimensional partitions? Would it make sense the description of ascendancy in terms of partitions? Robert Ulanowicz escribió: Dear Jorge and Fis members: The method is intriguing, but rather ad-hoc. I and colleagues in marine science have directly used information-theoretic indexes to evaluate the dynamically most important nodes and links in a quantified network. I'm convinced it could be applied as well to players on a team: Ulanowicz, R.E. and D. Baird. 1999. Nutrient controls on ecosystem dynamics: The Chesapeake mesohaline community. J. Mar. Sys. 19:159-172 The best, Bob Ulanowicz - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- Quoting Jorge Navarro López jnavarro.i...@aragon.es jnavarro.i...@aragon.es: Dear FIS collegaes, Hi! This is my first posting in the list. My name is Jorge Navarro and I am working with Pedro on Systems Biology and Network Science. Following with Joseph proposal I have found an interesting paper about a satisfactory theory of information applicable to teamwork sports: *Quantifying the Performance of Individual Players in a Team Activity* http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010937 I think that formally one can say a lot about what teamship activities become interesting and exciting to watch, and what other activities are dull and boring. I was playing soccer myself until a few years ago (forward), like Villa :-), and I am very interested in the informational side of sports, soccer of course. VIVA ESPAÑA!!! Kind Regards Jorge -- ___ fis mailing list...@listas.unizar.eshttps://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Stanley -I have often had this thought. Better to compete on the football pitch than the battlefield. The term hero is used for those that excel in either form of battle. Bob __ Robert K. Logan Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan On 19-Jul-10, at 2:12 PM, Stanley N Salthe wrote: Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. STAN On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Looking for an informational explanation of soccer, or other sports, as was asking Joseph, one can look at the internal side of the event. Then, as Jorge and Bob have done, one can discuss about the panorama of networking relationships or the ascendancy of the different elements. While agreeing with the interest of these approaches, one can also look towards the outside and ask about the social importance attributed to such type of spectacles. It is interesting that today a lot of economic activities, like sports, may be ascribed to ephemeral information production --think of entertainment, news, fashions, e-networks, communications, tourism, etc. Maybe this is the fastest growing segment, even in spite of the global crisis. Why the increasing predominance of panem et circenses? An speculative point may be that complex societies are caught into a information paradox. The higher they grow in their aggregate complexity the lower the structure of basic social relations (and interesting information) around the individual. According to Dunbar's social brain hypothesis, these complex societies deviate progressively from the evolutionary networking structure of our species. Thus info surrogates of whatever type are more and more necessary for the individual and for the society as a whole, although probably they are working worse and worse. If this is so, it makes sense that in the information era depression has become the first incapacitating pathology (above flu). Unfortunately, the victory at the world championship has been so ephemeral! best wishes Pedro PS. As a question to Karl: in what extent are directed graphs (or generic networks) equivalent to multidimensional partitions? Would it make sense the description of ascendancy in terms of partitions? Robert Ulanowicz escribió: Dear Jorge and Fis members: The method is intriguing, but rather ad-hoc. I and colleagues in marine science have directly used information-theoretic indexes to evaluate the dynamically most important nodes and links in a quantified network. I'm convinced it could be applied as well to players on a team: Ulanowicz, R.E. and D. Baird. 1999. Nutrient controls on ecosystem dynamics: The Chesapeake mesohaline community. J. Mar. Sys. 19:159-172 The best, Bob Ulanowicz - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http:// www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan - - Quoting Jorge Navarro López jnavarro.i...@aragon.es: Dear FIS collegaes, Hi! This is my first posting in the list. My name is Jorge Navarro and I am working with Pedro on Systems Biology and Network Science. Following with Joseph proposal I have found an interesting paper about a satisfactory theory of information applicable to teamwork sports: *Quantifying the Performance of Individual Players in a Team Activity* http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010937 I think that formally one can say a lot about what teamship activities become interesting and exciting to watch, and what other activities are dull and boring. I was playing soccer myself until a few years ago (forward), like Villa :-), and I am very interested in the informational side of sports, soccer of course. VIVA ESPAÑA!!! Kind Regards Jorge -- ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ -
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
Dear Jorge and Fis members: The method is intriguing, but rather ad-hoc. I and colleagues in marine science have directly used information-theoretic indexes to evaluate the dynamically most important nodes and links in a quantified network. I'm convinced it could be applied as well to players on a team: Ulanowicz, R.E. and D. Baird. 1999. Nutrient controls on ecosystem dynamics: The Chesapeake mesohaline community. J. Mar. Sys. 19:159-172 The best, Bob Ulanowicz - Robert E. Ulanowicz| Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- Quoting Jorge Navarro López jnavarro.i...@aragon.es: Dear FIS collegaes, Hi! This is my first posting in the list. My name is Jorge Navarro and I am working with Pedro on Systems Biology and Network Science. Following with Joseph proposal I have found an interesting paper about a satisfactory theory of information applicable to teamwork sports: *Quantifying the Performance of Individual Players in a Team Activity* http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010937 I think that formally one can say a lot about what teamship activities become interesting and exciting to watch, and what other activities are dull and boring. I was playing soccer myself until a few years ago (forward), like Villa :-), and I am very interested in the informational side of sports, soccer of course. VIVA ESPAÑA!!! Kind Regards Jorge -- ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
[Fis] curious chronicle
Dear FIS colleagues, More than a soccer match? Please, have a glance at the chronicle below by Chris Matyszczyk (CBS): The world was running out of hope. Shame was grasping for glory, preparing to clutch it in its filthy hands, when up stepped a true hero. Andres Iniesta doesn't look like a hero. He looks like an unassuming vacation waiter... --see complete text at: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-20010211-10391697.html?tag=featuredPostArea -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] curious chronicle
There was some truth in this epic. The Spanish were more elegant and flexible. The group ballet coordination was lighter. They deserved it well. Bravo, Espana! 2010/7/12 Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Dear FIS colleagues, More than a soccer match? Please, have a glance at the chronicle below by Chris Matyszczyk (CBS): The world was running out of hope. Shame was grasping for glory, preparing to clutch it in its filthy hands, when up stepped a true hero. Andres Iniesta doesn't look like a hero. He looks like an unassuming vacation waiter... --see complete text at: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-20010211-10391697.html?tag=featuredPostArea -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
