Re: Questions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Amy K White) Martie, Here is the address for Small Farmer's Journal. Small Farmer's Journal P.O. Box 1627 Sisters, Oregon 97759 (541)549-4403 It's a quarterly journal that I read cover to cover and the next issue can't come quick enough. You should really enjoy it. Let me know what you think. -Steve White, Omaha, Nebraska, USA On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:34:24 -0600 (MDT) john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This message is from: john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] DDULOW wrote: This message is from: DDULOW [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have tried to post before and for some reason it never appeared so here goes again: I have two Fjords and live in Chadds Ford, PA. I drive them as a pair and single. They are from Anvile's farm in BC. I belong to the Brandywine Valley Driving Club and have been a member for ten years. I also belong to the Carriage Driving List (which I notice many of you do also). First, Steve: Where can one obtain this Small Farmer's Journal that you speak of? Can it be purchased at a book store or do you have an address? Please tell me, my husband would love it. John Bolinski: Where in PA do you reside? Just ask the Amish they love to answer questions. They would be most interested in your Fjords. They are probably a little too expensive (so we have been told) for the Amish but they really do like them. I have one request- please post where you are from. I know many people don't like to give out addresses but simply - Chadds Ford, PA or whatever. This way, if your interested in a carriage, horse, or whatever, you won't be dissappointed if it's to far away. I really enjoy this list. DDULOW from Chadds Ford, PA Hi again from Martie Bolinski in North East Maryland (USA). Although my husban John's name appears on everything, I am the reading (and printing) most of the Fjord messages. Thanks for the info on draft work and clipping. I think I will just let the feathers alone for the time being. My driving instructor thought they should be clipped if I wanted to show, but I am much too green to consider showing yet. The weather is finally getting better and he IS actually shedding most of the really long stuff. I would like to know where I might find the Small Farm Journel. My harness (I have a light draft harness that I use for driving to a Meadowbrook) was purchased from an Amish harnessmaker (Smucker's) in Pennsylvania. I did not get much information about possibly working a Fjord. I got the impression they thought he would be too small/light for 'real' farm work. Especially since they are used to using such large teams. I will try asking different Amish. We see very few Fjords in this area. I have never seen one at the driving competitions I have attended, although last year was my first year. Again, thanks for the advise, Martie _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Fjords as work horses
This message is from: Julie Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] The first pair of Fjords I ever saw had just won the walking plow competition at the New York State Draft Horse Club plowing contest, an annual event. They were competing against Belgiums, Percherons and Clydes. Fjords ARE capable of doing real farm work. We spread our manure for several months last year with a team, using a full size horse drawn New Idea spreader. It was great training for unflappable driving! Welcome aboard to Mike and Joyce! Glad to hear you found a Fjord to suit your needs! Julie @ Old Hickory Farm
Re: North American Fjords
This message is from: Julie Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 07:08 PM 4/26/98 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: Alison Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pictures don't always tell the whole story. Prior to going to Holland a couple of years ago, Darryl and I studied numerous photos of the approved stallions there. We found that some of the stallions that we didn't especially like the looks of were GREAT looking in the flesh, and visa versa. I agree that it would be great to have a simple way to get a professional opinion about a horse. Julie
Re: North American Fjords
This message is from: Alison Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reinbowend wrote: Plus,and I'm sure to catch heat over this one, the fact that a large number of breeders don't have a clue about conformation or movement. This is a problem in all breeds and species(dogs, cats, etc.) Then there exists Barn blindness. The condition that permits breeders to think everything on there farm is perfect. I have a gelding, so I don't have to worry about inferior breeding, but The Fjord is so different from other horse in their build, is there anywhere we could send a picture of our horse and get it evaluated?
Re: Questions
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all, Marti, I know very little about using Fjords for farm work, but do know that working the soil with horses is easier or more difficult depending upon the type and state of the soil. The light, sandy loam I have here is definitely easier to cultivate than clayey bottom lands. I did not get much information about possibly working a Fjord. I got the impression they thought he would be too small/light for 'real' farm work. Especially since they are used to using such large teams. I will try asking different Amish. We see very few Fjords in this area. I have never seen one at the driving competitions I have attended, although last year was my first year. Again, thanks for the advise, Martie Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #35
This message is from: Ford37truc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Everyone in Fjordland! We would like to introduce ourselves here at West Church Fjords. We're Mike Joyce Cook. The latter being the boss and me the barn manager ( i get to pick the dookies(potatoes,road apples i think you get the drift). We purchased Nanja from Dr Jacobson last january and have been having a wonderfull time with her. She had her first foal, a beautiful colt, March 26th. Nanja was bred to Brians Stud LEIK. And it was a wonderfull pairing. Someone asked about maiden mares, we were maiden as well as Nanja, and discovered some interesting things. 1. the mare will have no clue as to whats going on...Nanja's utter filled 12 hours before the blessed event. The vet (Dr. Jacobson as well as our local vet) kept telling us things to look for. Well Mother Nature had it all planned out and kept even Nanja in the dark.2. We imprint trained right off the bat and actually I'm glad we did because mom was'nt interested untill later on in the evening. We had to gently persuade her (and ourselves) that everything was ok. It was kind of a catch 22 situation where by the utter was so full it was painfull and the only way to relieve the pain was for the little one,Magnus, to nurse. Which was painfull. 3. Mother Nature DOES take over, by the next morning Nanja had turned into a wonderfull mother. This fjord list is incredible. We've been able to communicate with others who love this breed as much as we do. In such a short period of time Nanja has become a friend aswell as motor for my buggy. One last comment and I'll close, I'm a little disturbed by some events that have taken place recently and would like to bring them to light. When my wife showed and bred Great Danes, we were taken advantage of by the breeder. The breeder took all the credit for the Koodo's and accolades for all the hard work and not to mention cash that my wife put into the puppy. Fjord breeders want new people in the field and by taking advantage of the owners hard work tends to shun new people away if it's gone unchecked. Lets give credit where it's due. Yes the breeder bred the animal, but the OWNER of that animal did all the work! Okay, Enough out of me Bye the way, West Church Fjords is nestled in Swanton, Ohio. You may not see us on a map, we are here!!! 45 west of Toledo in an area rich in horses!!! COME SEE US!!! Mike Cook P.S. Thanks again to Brian Jacobson for Nanja!!!
Evaluations
This message is from: Julie Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, it looks like we have a hot topic here. Good! Dispite the painstaking work of our Evaluation committee, over a LONG period of time, I am of the opinion that our Evaluation program, as it now exists, will not achieve the long-term goal of having a large number of Fjords evaluated. I think that many people think it is too complicated and too expensive, not to mention too infrequent and too far away. Please note that I am NOT saying that I agree, just that that seems to be feeling of quite a few Fjord folks. Perhaps the greatest handicap any evaluation system would have in this country is that we tend to be very sentimental about our horses and we DON'T eat our mistakes, nor will we ever. How do you find enough pet homes, guaranteed not to breed, for mares who are not top notch breeding quality? You can't neuter them, and certainly you can't NOT register them. So if you turn an average mare away when the owner wants to raise a baby, one of two things will happen. a) He will simply go to another stallion, perhaps a poor quality one and produce a poor quality foal or, b) he will decide to breed to some other breed - you know, a nice Arab/Fjord cross. I personally think that no great harm is done if the pet owner breeds his mare to a top quality stallion a few times in her life. Most pet owners won't make raising foals a full time career because it makes the mare unusable for the better part of a summer. At least 50% of these foals will be males and will make decent geldings. Yes, it would be wonderful if every mare that was bred was only the best, but that is not realistic. Now for the breeder, certainly there is no excuse for having an inferior mare that is producing inferior foals year after year. The other thing I would like to mention is that I have seen a large number of mares over the last seven years, many of them imported and awarded premiums by Holland or Norway, and there is a wide variation in quality! In 1996 the stallion that placed 1st among all the stallions evaluated in Norway was questionable enough to raise a great many eyebrows at his placement. The explanation that was given behind closed doors was that even in Norway we have Politics!. In Holland, I personally saw a very highly placed mare that was so pidgeon toed I would not have considered her to be breeding stock. So Imported isn't always the final word in quality. Would like to hear thoughts about bits for stallions.
Re: North American Fjords
This message is from: Reinbowend [EMAIL PROTECTED] The biggest problem with NA Evaluations is breeder participation. Not only do large numbers of breeders NOT bring their horses, but some are unwilling to abide by the advice of the evaluators and intend to breed inferior animals regardless of what they have been told. The purpose of these evaluations in Europe is to weed out horses whose conformation makes them unsuitable to be bred. Try and tell an American that his or her Fjord should not be used for breeding and you've got a fight on your hands. Plus,and I'm sure to catch heat over this one, the fact that a large number of breeders don't have a clue about conformation or movement. This is a problem in all breeds and species(dogs, cats, etc.) Then there exists Barn blindness. The condition that permits breeders to think everything on there farm is perfect. I have a novel slant on Fjord promotion. Let's turn it into Protection. Let's all continue our education in regards to the correct conformation of a Fjord horse and only breed those Fjords that are worthy of being bred. Those of us who own stallions should gently turn away inferior mares that are brought to our stallions. If someone wants to breed Fjords they should start with the best Fjord which is not necessarily the Fjord standing in their back yard. The best can come from anywhere, country of origin is not always an absolute indication of quality. A venerable horsewoman was once asked why all the good horses come from Europe. She replied Because they eat the bad ones whereas this response may have been a tad simplistic. In general it is true inasmuch that the Europeans don't breed the inferior horses. They are used in riding programs or in some cases end up in a can. But by and large there are far fewer cases of animal abuse in European countries. In the sport of Combined Driving large numbers of horses, not Fjords, are imported from Holland and Germany for use in advanced pairs and fours and some singles as well. This isn't because there aren't enough horses here in America it is because the best horses are produced in Europe for the reasons outlined above. I'm all for an Evaluation program. I would like to see the Europeans invited back. The Europeans are brought over to evaluate Friesians and Warmbloods why must we forsake their years of experience. The Dutch IBOP tests give everyone a chance to show off their Fjord even if it's conformation isn't first rate and they offer a draft test as well. Well you wanted discussion this should get people talking. Vivian Creigh Southern Vermont
Re: Questions
This message is from: john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] DDULOW wrote: This message is from: DDULOW [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have tried to post before and for some reason it never appeared so here goes again: I have two Fjords and live in Chadds Ford, PA. I drive them as a pair and single. They are from Anvile's farm in BC. I belong to the Brandywine Valley Driving Club and have been a member for ten years. I also belong to the Carriage Driving List (which I notice many of you do also). First, Steve: Where can one obtain this Small Farmer's Journal that you speak of? Can it be purchased at a book store or do you have an address? Please tell me, my husband would love it. John Bolinski: Where in PA do you reside? Just ask the Amish they love to answer questions. They would be most interested in your Fjords. They are probably a little too expensive (so we have been told) for the Amish but they really do like them. I have one request- please post where you are from. I know many people don't like to give out addresses but simply - Chadds Ford, PA or whatever. This way, if your interested in a carriage, horse, or whatever, you won't be dissappointed if it's to far away. I really enjoy this list. DDULOW from Chadds Ford, PA Hi again from Martie Bolinski in North East Maryland (USA). Although my husban John's name appears on everything, I am the reading (and printing) most of the Fjord messages. Thanks for the info on draft work and clipping. I think I will just let the feathers alone for the time being. My driving instructor thought they should be clipped if I wanted to show, but I am much too green to consider showing yet. The weather is finally getting better and he IS actually shedding most of the really long stuff. I would like to know where I might find the Small Farm Journel. My harness (I have a light draft harness that I use for driving to a Meadowbrook) was purchased from an Amish harnessmaker (Smucker's) in Pennsylvania. I did not get much information about possibly working a Fjord. I got the impression they thought he would be too small/light for 'real' farm work. Especially since they are used to using such large teams. I will try asking different Amish. We see very few Fjords in this area. I have never seen one at the driving competitions I have attended, although last year was my first year. Again, thanks for the advise, Martie
Re: Fjord Pedigrees by Computer?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Petty) Gail, There are a number of 'boxed' horse management programs that have pedigrees. Just last week tossed a couple of them. Sorry I do not remember the names, but I found them in the back of Equis the horse mag. A gentleman in Montana has written a program for his Fjords that looks ok. He has Proud Bottom Ranch, check with him. Also I'm sure Mike would have some leads. Philip Petty Lochsa Fjords Mica, Washington -- From: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fjord Pedigrees by Computer? Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 8:25 AM This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does anyone know of a really good pedigree program that would allow Fjord owners to really accurately track the Fjord lines? Seems to me I heard that at least one of the stud books was going to be available in online - or other computer format. I would like to use the stud book information, plus other notes/comments from other sources and enter them all into a computer data base that might help people breed the Fjord they want. For example, I'd like to take Carol Rivoire's horses' pedigrees (Stine,Gjest) and chart their pedigrees, then look at progeny and make notes about their movement, conformation, etc. I'm not sure there is a pedigree database program that would do this (it could come from the dog/cattle/sheep areas too - does not have to be specific to horses)If all else fails my SO might build one as practice while learning a new database program for work. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
please ignore - test
This message is from: K. Mogensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] test
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #35
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is for John and Donna..for future reference and to give you a super guide to foalingbuy the book 'Blessed are the Broodmares'. It covers all aspects of this subject very well. Money well spent. It is written in everyday language and covers all the bases (very comprehensive) Good luck...I remember that first time foaling very clearly and I would have preferred having that foal myself instead of waiting and waiting and waiting for it to happen.,,Very stressful but a wonderful experience. We tend to want to interfere with the process but I've learned to 'be prepared' but let the mare and foal 'do their work'. |---| | Ursula Brian Jensen from Trinity Fjords | | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #35
This message is from: Arthur Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm Fjords Ii. Hi! I'd like to respond to Ursula's message. I certainaly agree wholeheartedly that we need to maintain the standards of the breed we've inherited from Norway, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany. To do that, we need Evaulations such as are part and parcel of Fjord breeding in Europe. The NFHR's Evaluation Committee has modeled the North American Evaluations on Europe's system. Many of our judges have been trained in Norway, and by guest Dutch Fjord experts. That's wonderful. I've only seen one of them in action, and that was Jim Havelhurst, and it was my feeling that he had a solid grasp on what makes a good Fjord a good Fjord, and not just a 'good horse'. --- And while that distinction may seem obvious . . . . I believe that it is not at all obvious or easy to understand. But, to my mind, Jim Havelhurst knows what he's looking at. Anyway, Ursula and I are in agreement that all breeders should be taking their breeding and young stock to the Evaluations, if at all possible. --- ALL breeding stock and young stock should go, as Evaluations are not horse shows where you take your best. -- The purpose of these judgings is to assist breeders in maintaining qualilty and making decisions. For instance, is it at all possible that this weanling colt might be stallion material? If not, it's far better the breeder knows right away before he wastes a year of time, expense and trouble keeping a stud colt. If a mare is judged not good enough to be bred, how much better for horse and owners to know that, and to expend their energy, money, and time in training her to be a good pleasure horse. --- These are the reasons to attend Evaluations. Not to get a ribbon. If an Evaluation is done correctly, the horses are judged against THE STANDARD! They are not judged against each other. However, it's obvious that in order to do the job, our judges need to be well trained either in Europe, or certified by the judges who've already been there, and done that. I'm not sure I understand Ursula's intent when she talks about a North American Evaluation for our'homebred' Fjords, and using the 'Gold' designation, rather than Model, Elite, or the European terms. I don't have a problem with creating our own terms, but I do have a problem with introducing new standards, or different standards. As far as the Draft tests, or Western tests, I don't see any problem as the draft test has been part of the European Evaluations (Holland Norway) forever, as far as I know. And I find good Western riding very similar to dressage. In my book, THE FJORDHORSE HANDBOOK, I spend a lot of time talking about THE STANDARDS, and the SPECIAL CHARACTER of the Fjordhorse. These chapters have come through our own experience after eighteen years with Fjords. And they've also come from my association with the Dutch and the Norwegians. --- There are things the Fjordhorse shares in common with all using breeds; such as, the necessity for good feet and legs. But then, there are the subtle differences, and that's where we need European trained judges. I really feel very strongly about this. I feel that it's important for us to maintain close contact with the European breed associations in order not to get off the tract with this breed. --- Getting off the track can happen quickly and easily within a few generations, and when you think about it, a generation in horses is three or four years. I have to offer a mild objection to Ursula's comment that the Dutch and Norwegian certification levels - ie, Norwegian 1st premium and Dutch Elite are a valuable hook. By which I suppose she means for marketing horses. - These levels of certification are much, much more than that . . . if you understand them. For instance, if any of you were so very lucky to have the opportunity to buy a daughter or son, or granddaughter of a Dutch Elite mare, you could be 100% sure that your horse has a distinguised pedigree . . . at least on the dam's or granddam's side of it. There's no personal judgement involved. You would not need to ask anyone's opinion. -- An Elite Mare is the ultimate! --- A Norwegian stallion that's attained a 1st premium is one of the best. Nothing more needs to be said! Same for a stallion who's been selected to be an official breeding stallion for Holland or Norway. --- For example, Holland has 15,000 Fjords, but only 45 official breeding stallions. Can anyone possibly question the quality of any of those stallions? I think not! To give you an example of the Dutch system concerning the mare who reached Elite. She was certified A Premie as a suckling, yearling, and two year old. She was Model Mare 1st class as a three year old. Later, she was certified Star Mare. Much later, after she'd proven herself a good broodmare by having six foals in seven breeding seasons, she's become a
Dutch horses
This message is from: Jon A. Ofjord [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another interesting site to visit is the Dutch Studbook http://www.fjordstudbook.com/ Most of it is in the Dutch language, but not too difficult to navigate. It has pictures and pedigrees of some of the nicer horses. Some names will be familiar to many of you. Its always nice to see more fjord pictures, anyway. Jon
