Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #220
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hi Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia. A message to Mike May. Mike, I've been repetive (to say the least.) I admit to nagging. I may have annoyed some people in the process. - However, (squeaky wheel and all that) it did get people talking, and good suggestions surfaced. Mike, you joked about the NFHR's taking 14 years to produce a standard. You said Norway took 2,000 years to write theirs. That's true!However, they had the standard in their heads all the time. Those men knew, when looking at a Fjordhorse, if it was true to type or not. They'd learned at their grandfather's knees how to judge a Fjord. A written standard was not vital to them. We haven't had that heritage. Breeders produced, and American judges judged all those years without benefit of a breed standard. This wasn't necessary. We didn't have to reinvent the wheel. The NFHR could have adopted the Dutch standards. They existed in written form. How simple it would have been to hire a translator. --- And if anybody says that Dutch standards are different than Norwegian standards, well it isn't so. Up until recently, the Dutch went every year to Norway and bought some of Norway's best stallions. Stallions like Gjest and Solar. Both of them born and approved in Norway, and purchased by the Dutch Studbook. This is all water under the bridge as we now have a Breed Standard. I'm simply pointing out that if the NFHR didn't continually insist on doing things in their own, unique way, we'd have had a standard fifteen years ago. In the meantime, fifteen years of breed shows have come and gone. Those shows judged by Arab judges, Morgan judges, QH judges with no written standard to go by. They judged our Fjords as best they could, and breeding decisons were made on the basis of their placings. Think about it. Through all my repetition and nagging, I've said the NFHR needs to get cracking and begin to do things other registries do.--- A Rule Book, for instance. A Stud Bood, for another. Breed Promotion. A member's package. Proper Annual Meetings. More communication from the board. The NFHR needs to learn from others registries. Not continually reinvent the wheel. I talked to a breeder today who suggested after each conference call, the minutes be mailed to members. Great suggestion. They could also be put on the NFHR's web page. Otherwise, we must wait to read it in the Herald, but there's often a FOUR MONTH delay between conference calls and the appearance of the herald. Is this acceptable? I'm not happy with it! Anyway, I'm pleased to read all the good suggestions, and also pleased that I'm not the only one who thinks things could be done better and/or differently. Best Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #220
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-10-24 14:59:50 EDT, you write: << This is what my whole thoughts were, only I am not smart enough to put it on paper & what I do write comes on wrong , A beautiful fall day in Central Oregon Tillie>> Tillie, I know just how you feel! I didn't get enough sleep the night before last, and posted something on a horse rescue message board. It wasn't as clear as it "could" have been, and I got flamed! Sigh. Then people came to my rescue and realized what I was "trying" to say, but not necessarily getting my point across as well as I would have liked.Don't worry. Misunderstandings DO happen on line, when you can't hear somebody's tone of voice, or see the expression on their face. By the way, it's a beautiful day here in Northen Oregon too! Pamela
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #220
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List! First of all, Brian, Thank-you for you're insightfull information on fence chewing, I do not have wood fences right now, but always thought nothing before throwing in some wood branch's for my horses to munch onGood Grief! I have to agree that a handbook for Fjord owners is a much needed thing! I would be happy to work on something like that if you decide to get it going. I try and not get into too many of the ongoing discussions of a few, but I also have to say that the comment's regarding Canadian bred Fjords were innapproapriate and innacurate. About 1/2 of my herd are out of direct Canadian/Norwegian Imports, and I don't have any problem with either their paperwork, or breeding. Having shown with Canadian's both at Turlock, and Libby, and meeting many more at the Blue Earth Show for several years, I would assure anyone interested, that my fellow owners and breeders from up North, are both professional and have some of the nicest Fjords around. I also know of several Fjord owners who have and continue to breed Fjord cross horses for their own personal reasons. I do not agree with their reasons, however it is not my business, nor is it a " Canadian " thing. Both are from the US, by the way. The Draft/cross breeds are the hottest thing going in Sport Horse and some driving and eventing circles. Mostly it is the large Draft crosses, Belgian, Shire, Percheron, ect. being combined with TB, or Qh's to produce a bigger boned, eventing type horse. Remember, I do NOT agree with cross/breeding Fjords, however, their are reasons for everything, and to lump an entire country into a much practiced trend here in California, and back East is just not accurate. I want to invite everyone to join us at Fjord Chat on Sun. evening, at PetsandVets on the net. It takes place in Horse room #1, and begins at 9:00 Eastern time. Remember, that special guest Dave McWeathy is joining us on Fjord Chat on Sun. Nov. 1. Dave has agreed to have us "pick his brain " so to speak, on his interest in the Fjord Horse, and his sucess in campaining them at some very impressive driving shows. Also, he will give anyone interested in driving Fjords across the country some tips, just saw a film that featured Dave in his remarkable x-country trip with 3 Fjords! Everyone have a great weekend, and I'll see you at the chat! Lisa Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] PAV FJORDS , who needs to get out and drive and wash several Fjords and one black mutt in preperation for our ADS " coaching dog class " on Halloween. http://www.petsandvets.com/index.html";>PETS AND VETS
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #220
This message is from: Evers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 03:59 AM 10/24/98 -0600, I wrote: > >fjordhorse-digest Saturday, October 24 1998 Volume 98 : Number 220 >>I did & I hope others will help in pushing the BOD to put the rules on >>paper so we will all know & CONTINUE TO KEEP THIS A "PURE BREED" >> By the way I believe someone is breeding outside the breed (They can.t >>all come from Canada ) As we have come across many that are not Reg. >> Friend ? Tillie >>This message is from: Ursula Jensen - -- >TillieA couple of points.the NFHR does have it's rules and >regulations on paper.They have also been published occasionally in the >Herald... We joined the NFHR in August this year. WE have nothing to show for it Nothing but a canceled ck.And the Herald this mo. & the 2 back issues Mike sent me. These I read & read & treasure . I don't' loan them out for fear I will not get them back cause everyone that see mine ask if they can have it to read. > > Also, I take offense to your comment "they can't all come from Canada" My bad choise of my words. >What are you implying? >so a comment like that has far-reaching effects...Are you implying that >cross-breeding in Canada is rampant? I bet if all the info were in you'd >find that less desirable breeding practices are widespread on both sides of >the border. Shame on YOUSome of us Canadians work real hard and have a >passionate concern to maintain the integrity of this Breed. Your insensitive >comment hurts me but also makes me very angry. > I apologise, No way did I mean what you took offense on. I am referring to when we were looking at horses ,conversations, email & letters from people , that had Fjord ,horses we were looking to buy , There were some That had mares that were bred & they stated that we could get papers in USA, & then we asked if they were Reg anywhere & they no . Most also said they came from canada.This I didn't believe. there for we didn't purchase. We wanted NFHR or CANADA REG. horses. I am sorry for the way I put the words & didn't write what I meant. Please Forgive me, Ursula , Friend ??? Tillie >-- >I did & I hope others will help in pushing the BOD to put the rules on >paper so we will all know & CONTINUE TO KEEP THIS A "PURE BREED" > By the way I believe someone is breeding outside the breed (They can.t >all come from Canada ) As we have come across many that are not Reg. > Friend ? Tillie - -- >TillieA couple of points".the NFHR does have it's rules and regulations on paper" I wish I had them! .>They have also been published occasionally in the Herald...Often people don't read things like that unless the matter applies or interests them at that moment.I'm sure Mike gets frustrated because he sends material out and some of it probably ends up in file 13 and then people plead ignorance later. I sure wish I had the back issue. >Steve Wrote >The only thing that I remember receiving from the NFHR when we first >joined was a business card that we could write our names on as a > membership card. There was no packet containing rules and > descriptions of incentive programs. The idea that occasionally >publishing things in the Herald is not good enough. >We need a booklet of the rules and regulations of the organization >that is part of every "New Member" package. Probably the same >booklet could contain the charter and bylaws of the organization >The "New Member" package could also contain brochures on the various >incentive programs, and maybe one outlining the Evaluation process. -- >Steve McIlree & Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, >Nebraska, USA This is what my whole thoughts were, only I am not smart enough to put it on paper & what I do write comes on wrong , Mary Thurman Wrote , To Wayne >Because of what I learned here, I was able to give an intelligent >response to this. Not just emotional, but somewhat learned. Thank You . Thats what I want to say also Of Wayne & anyone who has given us information to know & understand the Fjord. I hope you all are my Friends & when I ask A question & its dumb sounding , I except all corrective critizium . " Cant we all just get along" Be helpful & I guess we should all be thankful we have the knowlege to ask questions when in doubt. about Fjords. I have learned more on this P/C with editing , but am sorry it was not meant to be a book. A beautiful fall day in Central Oregon Tillie
Re: Consultant Remarks to Brian
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Response to Brian Jacobsen from Wayne Hipsley You have some very good questions on some very timely issues. However, if you will remember, I did not bring up the issue of being hired as a consultant to the NFHR. You and others should know, I do not like the idea of getting involved in situations with breed associations via "popular vote". My comments posted on the 10/22 Digest were intended to hopefully put to rest some of the commentary on this issue. I want to read about someone else and what they can do. I will attempt to answer your questions and provide some more history in the following paragraphs. Just to provide you with a bit of history I have worked in equine breed association administration and management for over 17 years. In these years of experience I have seen many of the challenges being presented, issues being raised, and choices being explored by the membership as expressed in this Digest and through the BOD. The NFHR is not re-inventing the wheel in all cases, but like many breed associations limits the bounds of their search for information to the time available to the volunteers who are the decision makers, the BOD. As a volunteer, I have supported the efforts of the Evaluation Committee by providing them the insight I have gained in working with and observing other breed associations. I continue to do this to this very day. One of the most important factors of accomplishment the Evaluation Committee has made is the matter of a written breed standard. I was only one of many people who felt this was necessary and contributed time to this project. My discussions on this topic started in 1991. It took many discussions and conference calls to convince people this was necessary if the breed was to continue to be a true representative of the native Norwegian Fjord. Once convinced the volunteer committee took over the process and moved to put the discussions into reality. In 1997 a proposed breed standard was released in the Herald for all to see and I understand the BOD have officially approved the breed standard in 1998. From inception to completion it took at least 6 plus years. This is very typical of non-profit volunteer breed associations, not a criticism. Could this lengthy process be improved upon? Yes. Was timing an issue in getting this matter approved? Maybe. Is the project complete or is it a dynamic issue? I do not know but my experience tells me it should a dynamic issue, not making radical changes but continuing to be fine tuned and possibly being improved upon. The vague answers are representative of the unknowns. The unknowns are yet to come for the organization, but some of us who have been down the path before know there are only a few routes for future travel. As a consultant, you can point out the route yet to be traveled and assist the organization in preparing for the expected and unexpected. As a consultant, the basics of the breed standard project could have been written in a matter of months after interviewing Fjord breeders in North America and working in conjunction with the Norwegians. Yet, would the BOD or the membership accept and place their approval on the breed standard had it been done as I have described? Who knows, Boards do strange things sometimes no matter how prepared you are for handling issues. And, in this case the quest for a breed standard started at the Committee level and not at the Board, which tells me in the beginning the Board did not understand the importance of the breed standard. Yet, once the Board understood the importance the breed standard moved ahead. Mike made a very important remark the other day about the breed standard. He stated the Norwegians have not had a written breed standard for 2,000 years. And, that is very typical of many breeds of horses before they enter the international market place. The breed standard is either in the 'actual use of the horse' or in the 'eye of the beholder'. Before the issue was raised in 1990 on the judging trip to Norway, the Norwegians had not dealt with this matter as we in North America do with the breeds. Let me provide you with a couple of other examples: I was instrumental in attempting to motivate the Norwegians in forming a World organization for the Fjord registries and breed associations. Likewise, I pushed them to establishing an International Judges Seminar. In both cases, the rationale for this action was for the Norwegians to take an active role in the future of the Fjord horse. They were emerging into the new European Economic Community with this and other challenges. Each of these was new to them but they understood their importance and both became reality. I did this as a 'friend' and not on a professional for fee basis. So, the question is did they follow the advice on both of the programs. Yes, on the seminar and No, on the world organization. The Norwegians did an outstanding job on the judges seminar, a very valuable
Re: termites vs. beavers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-10-24 00:45:20 EDT, you write: << Sometimes a mineral deficiency is blamed for the wood chewing. In reality, though, it is almost always due to boredom or frustration as Pamela mentioned. >> Yes, with Merrygold it was boredom, frustration AND anger. Usually all the horses get plenty of turnout time and there is no problem. But last weekend we went out in the morning to look for a new car, and what was meant to be a 2 hour outing turned into most of the day. We were 4-5 hours late both Saturday and Sunday in turning the horses out. The fjords were fine. Just wheeled and squealed when we let them out. But the quarter horse was angry. So she chewed up her stall door. I was extremely surprised. She'd never done this. Even when she was being boarded during our move, sometimes, rarely, but sometimes she would be in her stall all day and she didn't do this. I guess now she's gotten used to the fresh green grass and the freedom that she has here in Oregon, and was angry when she was deprived. It is very rare that she has to stay in all day, so I don't think it will happen again. But just in case she's developed a taste for wood I think I'll go to the little Mexican grocery store in town and get some of those peppers! Pamela
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #220
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joel a harman) This in in response to Ursula Jensen's comments about what Tillie Evers wrote. Maybe you should read her first post again. She said something to the effect that she had heard that many cross breeds come from Canada. I don't recall where she stated ALL of the crossbreeds come from Canada. I know that Tillie is new to fjords. How is she going to learn without asking questions? I've often heard it said that there are no stupid questions - just unintelligent responses to the questions. May I ad a "shame on you"? When is the last time you went to a show where someone kept a mare in the stud pen area at a show? The only place I've seen it is at a fjord show. While I am on a roll here I seem to remember your husband Brian commenting on how someone had their horse in shafts hooked incorrectly. Shortly after the horse went by his trailer there was a wreck. Think that could have been avoided by offering some constructive criticism? Shame on both of you! Joel Harman ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Vacation
This message is from: saskia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Steve and Cynthia, > If you have > time for a cup of coffee around your kitchen table, we would love > to visit with you. If you don't, we understand. I have time, coffee and a kitchen table, but unfortunately I think I'm a few miles too much out of your way... enjoy yourselves and come back safely and happily!!! Saskia (in rainy and muddy Belgium)
