Re: A.I. necessary; permit fee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steven A White) Before we jump into using artificial insemination in this breed, I believe there are a few things we should consider. I don't feel that A.I. is really good for a breed. Good for some breeders maybe, but not the breed. I was reading an article on A.I. just the other night and one of the pro's it listed for using A.I. was that it increases the gene pool. This is not the case. The dairy industry has used these techniques much longer than the equine industry. Now it is estimated that over 90% of all Holstein cows can be traced back to just 3 bulls. Where is the genetic diversity there? Some of you may be familiar with the disease Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis (aka HYPP, Impressive syndrome). This is a genetic disease which can cause varying degrees of paralysis (even death) in horses carrying the gene. It all traces back to the sire Impressive. Impressive was a very popular stud and therefore many mares were bred to him. Thus, many horses are afflicted with this disease today. The Quarter Horse association only recently has allowed A.I. to be used in their breed. Can you imagine the disaster that would have occurred if A.I. had been allowed back when Impressive was in peak breeding? This is not an isolated case either. More genetic diseases are becoming uncovered with other breeds that trace back to individual stallions. The Jockey Club is the association that registers Thoroughbred race horses. The Jockey Club still does not allow the use of A.I.. There are two reasons for this. One is to maintain the genetic diversity that a large stallion population provides. Second is that a large stallion population maintains a large breeding industry. Secretariat was a great running horse, but was not a good producer of runners as a stallion. I'm sure after winning the Triple Crown every breeder in the world would have wanted some shipped semen from him and today we would be left with thousands of mediocre Secretariat offspring. One benefit I could see with Fjords would be to introduce stallions from over seas. We could get a little Old World genetics into our New World horses and vice versa. I know all the other pro's that many of you are thinking of (i.e. no mare transport, no boarding fees at stud farms, etc.), but as I said these are benefits to the breeder, not the breed. I'm not saying that the breed shouldn't allow the use of A.I., I'm just saying that there are many things to consider here. I'll step down from my soap box now. Steve White, DVM Waterloo, Nebraska, USA
Re: People Concerns vs. Horse Concerns
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - In the interest of education, Brian Jacobsen proposed that videos be taken of horses at Evaluations. The tapes would show the horse standing, moving, and record judge's comments, plus the final score, and then be available to the public. This procedure speaks to the purpose and spirit of Evaluations, as practiced in Europe, eg - breed improvement and breeder education. In Europe, you can get to an Evaluation in a few hours. Whether into Fjords, Freisans, or Warmbloods, people go to Evaluations to learn about breeding, and to determine the quality of their horses. That's what serious breeders do. It's different here, of course. Because of distance, Evaluations have far less impact on our breed as fewer horses get evaluated, and fewer owner/breeders get a chance to watch and learn at ringside. So, why not use technology to bridge the gap? Yes, there will be unfavorable judgings. Some owners will be elated and encouraged. Others hurt and embarrassed. The former will receive free publicity, the latter negative exposure. Is this fair? Yes, it's fair. Hard, but fair. The horses are judged against the Breed Standard. Nothing else influences the judge. However, not everybody will be happy. But, is this a reason not to have Evaluations, or not to video them when the purpose of Evaluation is to educate owners and breeders, and to protect and improve the breed? Evaluations are serious business, not necessary fun. Evaluations in Europe are public affairs. If you're a breeder you go, and take your laurels or lumps in public. Most of us can't be ringside at U.S. Evaluations, so Brian's suggestion to video the proceeding makes sense. If we truly love this breed, we must think about what's good for the Fjordhorse, rather than continually worrying about hurt feelings or angry people. The business of a Horse Registry or Breed Society is to do what's best for the breed . . . not what's best for the owners. It should be Horse Concerns not People Concerns. Best Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: safety concerns
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 11/17/98 16:53:17 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but the ones I have seen are pretty funny looking as they are a standard-sized helmet, instead and oversized cowboy hat. Have you found anything more fashionable? :) Nope... not yet. The kind I have is the funny looking one with the oversized cowboy hat. Lucky for me, I don't mind providing people with a good laugh. And am not oversensitive when they point their fingers at my head and start rolling on the floor, laughing. Sigh.. definitely NOT a fashion statement, but I STILL like my western helmet g Pamela
Long posts, advertising, etc.
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello list, I have kept silent on this one for quite a while. But enough is enough. I feel we are being unfair to Carol in singling her out for criticism for the length of her posts just because they are advertising her horses. Personally, I don't mind a little advertising. If I'm in the mood or it sounds interesting I read it, if not I simple click on Prev or Next and go on to the next message. Simple enough. There are long posts from others concerning training, bragging on their horse, etc., which sometimes are interesting, sometimes not, depending on our mood or the time we have. We are free to read these or not. No one holds a gun to our heads and says READ THIS!! Also, some of us have never figured out how to use the delete mode on our computers to delete the message being referred to (or most of it) which makes for long messages - annoying, maybe, but these also can be fast forwarded through. Let's cut each other a little slack here before we turn into a list of complainers and forget what we are here for - to share info about our beloved Fjords. Mary, in rainy, windy Washington. == Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: safety concerns
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd like a Western one - but the ones I have seen are pretty funny looking as they are a standard-sized helmet, instead and oversized cowboy hat. Have you found anything more fashionable? :) I *always* wear a helmet, sometimes even when doing groundwork - feel naked without. I do wish I had one with a western hat brim, and wish they were just a bit cooler though. Gail I never ride without my helmet. Have several of them, matter of fact. Get a lot of funny looks and comments about my western one. But hey! It not only protects the brain, the brim keeps the sun off my delicate skin too g. Pamela Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: safety concerns
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) I have felt the crunch of the padding in my helmet when I hit the ground after my fjord tripped at a fast canter. Thank God I had it on. and yes, I had it replaced. Jean G. This message is from: Ingrid Ivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jodie, Thanks for the details--and I know what you mean about trail riding/time/kids. My daughter is 11 months old. I actually take her with me on rides up to three hours (backpack)... I'm sure she loves the ride, but gosh, aren't you afraid of what may happen if you ever come off your horse, unexpectedly? Just a thought. On the same subject of safety...what do folks on the list think of helmets? I know our fjords are wonderful creatures, not usually prone to being too un-sensible, but they are horses...and accidents do happen...helmets work! Ingrid Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: safety concerns
This message is from: Jodie Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, for me, life is a gamble. I could choke to death on a chicken bone tonight at dinner, or I could live to be 100 and die in my sleep. One thing is for sure--I'm going to die. I do not spend an inordinate amount of time worrying what if--if I did, legally blind as I am, I would never take a step! Helmets are fine--for those who choose to wear them. It's a personal choice, IMHO, and shouldn't be mandated by various levels of governemnt (now at horse shows, it's the shown management's call, and those who don't wish to wear helmets can simply not show at that show). I wear a helmet when I ride my 10-speed, but only because my husband made a big stink about it. I am fond of telling him that if I am hit by a speeding dump truck on our curvy highways (far more likely than simply taking a little spill), the helmet will just make the mess easier to clean up... As far as taking Naomi with me on rides, yes, I do think about what would happen if I fell off. Probably the same thing that happens when I slip on a hike with her--she and I get a little muddy and we have something to laugh about. I do not take her on the young horses that I'm training, or on a horse that I know to be spooky to any degree. We walk mainly, and ride on trails or less-travelled roads. I'm sure there are 50% of the people out there that will flame me for taking her with me. Oh well. they can raise their own kids as they see fit. happy (free to to as you want) trails, --- Jodie Gilmore Freelance Technical Writer Washougal, WA
Re: safety concerns
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 11/17/98 11:58:56 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the same subject of safety...what do folks on the list think of helmets? I never ride without my helmet. Have several of them, matter of fact. Get a lot of funny looks and comments about my western one. But hey! It not only protects the brain, the brim keeps the sun off my delicate skin too g. Pamela
Re: matching mares to stallions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) Brian, I am referring to those who are first time breeders, novices, not knowledgeable about fjords etc. Yes, if you do not know how to take pictures of horses you can give them big heads, tad pole behinds etc. With a few proper instructions a person can take decent pictures. Liability free simply means from a legal stand point the expert would not be held responsible for the results. I can not see it becoming an overwhelming process. Do you? Certainly it would be better to have the mare evaluated, but how many will? Jean This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Jean, You wrote: You might include another liability free service to mare owners by directions on fotos of the mare, lineage of the mare and then match the mare to what should be the best stallion for her. With AI available I would consider this option. I want to make sure I fully understand what you mean. Are you saying the mare owner would send in a picture(s) for someone to look at, and a determination would be made as to compatible stallions? What do you mean by 'liability free' ? I realize that something like this could be valuable for a mare owner who was serious about breeding to the best stallion (for that mare). I do wonder though if it wouldn't be much more valuable for the mare owner if the mare herself could be officially Evaluated. Don't you agree it's often difficult to judge a horse by a picture? Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: safety concerns
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ingrid-- Tuesday, Tuesday, November 17, 1998, you wrote: On the same subject of safety...what do folks on the list think of helmets? I *always* wear a helmet when I ride. For some reason, I seldom wear one when I drive. We always make others wear a helmet when they ride or drive with one of our horses, so I'll always wear a helmet when I'm giving someone else a ride in the cart. -- Steve McIlree Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA The air of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. --Arabian proverb
safety concerns
This message is from: Ingrid Ivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jodie, Thanks for the details--and I know what you mean about trail riding/time/kids. My daughter is 11 months old. I actually take her with me on rides up to three hours (backpack)... I'm sure she loves the ride, but gosh, aren't you afraid of what may happen if you ever come off your horse, unexpectedly? Just a thought. On the same subject of safety...what do folks on the list think of helmets? I know our fjords are wonderful creatures, not usually prone to being too un-sensible, but they are horses...and accidents do happen...helmets work! Ingrid
Re: looking for a Fjord
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) Cathey, I know a gelding named Chance who is very healthy friendly and big. I had him for a two week trial but I do dressage and he did driving. He is a good ride but unfortunately re my age he did not want to stop. It would not take long to train this out of him. He was also too big for me at 14.3, We bonded easily and it was hard to send him back. Nice boy. His owner is very honest Call 360 456 8271 Joy He has been champion in shows and is quite reliable. This message is from: Adobe Hacienda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello list! This is my first attempt at communicating on the list. Some of you I know from the chat line and a few of you already know I am looking for a Fjord. I followed up on the leads in California but I thought some of you might answer me privately if you know of a good horse reasonably priced. My lovely Safari died from a heart attack several months ago. She was only 6 years old. It has taken quite a while for me to start the search. I found two horses that couldnt pass prepurchase vet checks and so I am still searching. I would be interested in something to drive, show, trail ride, a little dressage (under saddle), but my love is combined driving. Any age is good but prefer ready to train or already trained. Any leads are appreciated. Cathy Sedona Arizona Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Secret Santa idea
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] CD-L just solicited for Secret Santa participants for this year. I really had fun with it last year. What about doing it on FH-L?. I would be willing to coordinate it. If you decide to do it, use my [EMAIL PROTECTED] address for response. Cost is limited to $25.00 Drawing and notification for Secret Santa's on December 4th. Gifts to be mailed for delivery by January 5th. Hints are allowed on this list or privately. Secret Santa's will be announced on January 6th. Keep'em guessing! Information requested to participate is below. Please remember to e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **1999 SECRET SANTA PROJECT* MY NAME IS: MY HORSES(S) NAME(S) ARE/IS: (you people who are breeders, don't need to list ALL your horses! VBG) MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS: MY MAILING ADDRESS IS: STREET: APT NO#: P.O. BOX NUMBER: CITY: POSTAL (ZIP) CODE: COUNTRY: TELEPHONE NUMBER: (optional) Please give a number where you can most likely be reached by a courier or post office. MY WISH LIST (to make filling your list a little easier on your Santa,list a number of things as availability of goods may vary from area (list is not binding). For me: For my horse: Cynthia Madden Omaha, Nebraska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Educate, Evaluate, Etc.
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] I liked Cathy Koshman's discussion of developing some distance learning tools. With all the expertise available in the NFHR membership probably quite a bit of design and development could be done by member volunteers with the organization paying for the finished professional product. Brian J. has already volunteered to do something with A.I. and I'm sure others can step in with their expertise if asked. While I like the idea of videotaping evaluations, Cathy is right in thinking that a pre-education program is just as important and probably a very wise early step. There is no reason videotaping of evaluations can't begin while other education efforts are ongoing. We have marvelous tools available now with great technology to offer some really good education to our widely scattered membership. I will remind Julie Will that I volunteered to serve on the education committee and I would really be interested in working on this kind of project. Speak up you others who are willing to help out on NFHR committees. If we don't do it, no one else will. The call for volunteers on committees also needs to go out to those who are not electronically connected. We need all the help we can get to further the interests of our wonderful horses. Cynthia Madden, Coordinator Office of Sponsored Programs Research University of Nebraska at Omaha E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Crichton's book...and more books!
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meredith wrote: My one disappointment was that it contained no fulfilling reference to their horses some ofwhich must have been Fjordinger (maybe Dorina's or Aagot's g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-great granddam carried Ibn Fadlan on his adventures), they were treated simply as transportation. For those among us who are intrested in the early use of the horse, I have some books to recommend: Chenevix-Trench, Charles. c. 1970. A History of riding. Clutton-Brock, Juliet. 1992. Horse Power. A history of the horse and donkey in human societies. Natural History Museum Publications, London. ISBN 0565011677 Davis, R.H. 1989. The Medieval Warhorse. Origin, development and redevelopment. Thames and Hudson Ltd, London. Gladitz, Charles. 1997.Horsebreeding in the Medieval world. Four Courts Press, Dublin. ISBN 1-85182-270-4. Hyland, Anne. 1990. Equus. The Horse in the Roman World. B.T. Batsford Ltd, London. ISBN 0713462604. - 1994. The Medieval Warhorse. From Byzantium to the Crusades. Nothing specific on fjordhorses, I'm afraid. But a lot of information on the early history of horsekeeping and riding. I can really recommend Chenevix Trench as an instroduction. Anneli
