Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #297
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List! Hope everyone can join PAV Jackie and I for Fjord Chat at PETSandVETS, on the net. Its in horse room # 1 at 9:00 Eastern time, Sun. nights. All new folks invited too!!! Lets decide on some more guests for 1999 and maybe some return ones Mike? Steve? Dave? See you all there! Lisa Pedersen PAV FJORDS http://www.petsandvets.com/";>PETS AND VETS http://volano1.suresite.com/petsvets/vcclient/horsechat.html";>HORSE CHAT ROOM
RE: Winter water, ground rod removal, snow
This message is from: "fpack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Removal of ground rods OR "T" posts is easily accomplished with a bumper jack and light chain. Happy New Year to all, Fred and Lois Pack Pack's Peak Stables Wilkeson, Washington USA
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #297
This message is from: SUSAN L GIARGIARI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello List! We have snow! 8" in the Monadnock Region of NH. Nice and lite so the shoveling was nice and easy! The horses are loving it! If I could do poetry I would add some verses to the X-Mas one about the "loose ponies!" The phone rang out about 5 am and as it is downstairs we let the voice mail pick it up. If it was important they would ring us right back. It rang and Dick stumbled down and the police had a small group of little yellow ponies up on the next road running joyfully around the yards of the neighbors! To us that meant that it was either the two mares or the 3 weanling fillies and Hilmar! (Saskia is safely locked in her stall at night - so no unplanned visits with Hilmar!) The two mares were in their paddock! Dick went to get the halters & lead ropes and what every fjord owner knows is the magic key to a fjord's heart...grain. Shake alittle in the bucket and it is like the Pied Piper! We hopped in the truck and drove to the top of the hill and there were our other horsey neighbors leading 3 very compliant youngsters with the police lighting the way! Dick took one and I drove back down the hill to check on the situation. I grabbed the flashlight and ran down to check the fence and there was Hilmar standiing very calmly at the fence line (notice I didn't say fence!) . The two gates were no where to be seen and the wire was thrown out. Oops! The two handles were stuck together and the evening feed person(OOOPPS!!) left the bottom gate handle hooked up to the top handle so she can duck under the fence with the wheel barrow as she pushes the PM feeding of hay out to the designated feeding spots. The youngsters must have pushed under ! (The wheelbarrow handles make a nice safe haven to walk in while dishing out the hay and the youngsters and Hilmar decide who is going to eat out of what pile!) Hilmar was standing right at the fence line! He knew that fence was there somewhere! I hurried up and got the top wire at least temporarily across so he could see that , yes , the fence was there. I heard the others coming and ran up to make sure they went into the barn until the fence was fixed! I just love it when the "invisible" fence works just as good as the real one! It always amazes me when the ones who will sneak out where ever there is a "high" wire , even can tell when the fence charger is on or off. Yet, some horses know where the fence line is and no matter what , they won't go over it unless you are there to reassure them that ,yes, they can cross it! So... the ponies made the police report in the paper and the new police officer enjoyed participating in the "round-up"! Will the person who E-mailed me about going to Equine Affaire in Ohio please write me again! It is me who did write about being a contact person. I have dumped all of the mail I had saved in folders and am not having a fun time with trying to hook up the new scanner! I will send you all the info for getting stalls and such. I think you were from Mn. , but I just quickly read it and had to go, so I saved it and then later all my mail went to never, never, land. My Norton is not working and I have to get a new one so I can resurrect all my stuff to start the new year off right! Sleigh bells will be ringing shortly! Sue G.
Dagmar's questions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Dagmar, One thing you asked was what to look for in an equine veterinarian. Here are suggestions from someone who is one. To me, the veterinarian's personality is the most important characteristic. No matter how knowledgeable or experienced a veterinarian may be, if you don't like them, you will not respond well to his/her suggestions. We had a perfect example of this up until recently at the clinic I work at. We had a veterinarian here who was very smart and also had good common sense. However he was quiet and a person of few words. Around here, people expect you to be friendly and outgoing, and if you are quiet they usually think you are either upset or you don't like them. So, many people preferred not to have him out to their place. The next thing to me would be availability. You want someone that is going to be available for emergencies as well as regular calls. It would also be nice if they had hours that accomodated a working schedule (i.e. 7:30am to 6 or 7pm). Availability of the veterinarian(s) themselves is also important. We used a Pediatrician's office for a while where you could never speak to the doctors when you called; All the receptionists would want to do is have you make an appointment. Very frustrating. Now we come to knowledge and experience. Why weren't these first? Aside from the reasons given above, even if a vet is still a little wet behind the ears, he/she was taught the basics in school (suturing lacerations, treating colics, some lameness work, etc). The rest will come with time. If need be, a referral to a specialist or the vet school can be given for something the new veterinarian hasn't seen. If you find a veterinarian who is personality plus, available, and experienced, consider yourself extremely lucky. In fact, if you find a vet like that, please give me a call because we're looking for one right now! : ) Then Dagmar, when you find the vet who suits you best (ask a lot of horse people who they use and like), he/she can help you with many of the questions you asked. I believe it would be more helpful for you to get the answers from a local veterinarian rather than one of us on the list because you would be establishing a relationship with them at the same time. And something that would be even more helpful, could you spend some time riding around with that veterinarian on farm visits? Some vets like to do this and some don't, but if you found one that did, and you could, you would pick up a lot about how things are done in the States and in your area. Good luck! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
predator and prey
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Sini, When you wrote: >Another thing we've been thinking about is the prey-predator theory. >Humans are often considered as predators in the eyes of a horse according >to many books and trainers. But second thoughts: our evolutional roots >are so close to apes which has been proved e.g. genetically that we can >hardly be predators. The apes that are closest to us are very much prey >animals even though some of them may eat occasional insects that they >come across. Although our eyes are at the same side of the head and the >ears are fairly immobile that doesn't mean we are predators because apes >have the very same qualities. Humans can learn to use tools and weapons >in order to prey upon - we are not BORN with them so we must be more like >prey animals. Apes nor we have the kind of claws or teeth that are >necessary for a predator. You have been given some wrong information which I think may be confusing the issue; It has never been proven, genetically or otherwise, that people evolved from apes. So called "missing links" have all been proved to be variations in a species rather than a separate and intermediate species. So to compare us to apes as to whether or not one is a predator or a prey species will lead to incorrect conclusions. Also, predator-prey relationships are variable depending on which animals are being compared. For instance, wolves are predatory to many animals, but in regards to bears, they are not. So comparing us to apes when it is really our relationship to horses that is in question, will be inaccurate. Another factor that makes the issue hard to delineate is that traditional predator-prey roles can become blurred. Many people own dogs and cats in the same household, and the two can get along marvelously, whereas in the wild their relationship would be that of predator prey (my parents just lost a cat to coyotes as an example). Additionally, there are other relationships besides just predator-prey; Other relationships include: symbiotic (helping each other), indifferent, adversarial but not predator-prey. The authors who say we approach horses from a predatorial standpoint may not have considered other relationships well enough. Possibly the thing that causes the most difficulty when this issue is being discussed is the terminology. The dictionary defines predator as "An animal that preys upon others." We are not attempting to prey upon horses. Instead we desire to control them to accomplish our plans or purposes. And in return for expecting things from them, we give food, shelter, and love. A term different from and better than "predator" is needed to describe this relationship. I think you are correct in your final analysis where you say, in effect, that horses analyze each situation as it arises rather than just characterizing everything as a predator or not. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: Annual Booster Shots
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mary Thurman asked: Solvway Equine Vaccines has come out with a new Triple E-FT+EHV vaccine (9-way vaccine, if you will). It has everything in it tet/flu/rhino/EWV. Are these vaccines as effective as the separate ones...? Just like any other vaccine, Solvay had to prove this new vaccine demonstrated a certain level of effectiveness before it would be licensed for sale. So you should be able to trust that it helps protect your horse. Trying to decide which vaccine is more effective, though, is difficult. Companies do not usually publish the kind of information one would need to make this determination. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Gounding Rods & Happy New Year's Eve.
This message is from: Julia Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >My specific question, How can one move a grounding rod? We have a tractor with a bucket loader and sometimes can pull a rod with it. Otherwise the only choice is to buy new rods, and drive the old ones into the ground far enough that they won't hurt anyone who steps on them, or dig around them and cut them off well below ground level. Julie
Helpful Hints to Maureen
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't respond much to the Digest, but felt Maureen's request for ideas in retrospect was something I could discuss with some knowledge. Kristine Werner and I had a similiar experience. My 3 year old seemed so ready for showing with my daughter, Maggie. Well, we learned this past show season that no matter what the breed, they need time to mature. Patrick is a wonderful horse and I have 100% confidence in his ability to be a champion some day. Right now, he needs time and love and patience. After Woodstock I decided he had been pushed to fast and too hard. Therefore, we took him back to the basics. Just like Kristine's 4 1/2 year old, Patrick was patient and forgiving enough to move ahead. So, I guess I just want to say, be patient and don't let the Fjord's good press let you forget they need time to grow up! They're a wonderful breed! I know you all know that, I just needed to say it! Pat McCurdy Cato, N.Y.
Alpha mare syndrome
This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > When I try to warm her up to petting she tolerates it but really does not > want it. It hurts me to see her nibble on others, accept their patting but > moves away from me or barely tolerates my approach. She makes great body > motion,ie head swinging, demands when she thinks I am bringing the food too > slowly and such other impertinant actions that we would not tolerate from > someone working for us. Believe me I am not mean to my horses and they do > not flinch etc. I just punish the action at the time. Voice or hand or > whatever is within reach. My interpretation of her behavior is simple. > There are obviously two dominant mares on the place and we "tolerate" each > other. > Hi JeanI seem to be going through this process with my new mare. She WAS the alpha mare at her "old" home, but is now the subservient one, to my "gang" of fjords. The way they act towards her, you'd think they should be wearing black leather jackets and carrying switchblades...the little stinkers. "One 4x4 treated fence post down, and a few more gates to dent".aaarrrggghhh! I think she feels the need to dominate over something or someone also, to be in control. She'd never been off her original owners farm (for 10 years, as they raised her) and has taken quite some time to adapt here. It will be slow going, but I'm patient. Can't blame her for being confused. The head swinging and body motions are the same...if I didn't know better, I'd be afraid of her, but I have been through this behaviour before (although with a gelding). She hasn't been here long and is testing me everyday...it's that new horse "attitude". Some situations have already improved, which lead me to believe she isn't all she claims to be, with her haughtiness and fire. She may never be a "cuddley" one, (we will see) but I do demand respect and toleration from her...she seems to know that. Interesting topic Jean...Ingrid of Full Moon Fjords...in snowy Ohio! :o)
Welcomes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the "Digest" Patty Peterson from Libby, MT. Was I right about this "Digest" making you want to jump out of bed a little early each morning just so you'll have time to read this before you have to go to work? In Patty's letter she mentioned that she had bought her Fjords from us. She first purchased her filly, Dustenai, as a weanling, then later that winter purchased her gelding, Dustin's Sirrus, which she gave to her husband as a surprise Christmas gift. Someday we will have to share that story with everyone. That was the MOST WONDERFUL Christmas one could ever imagine. We gave 3 Fjords as surprise gifts from Santa, one to Patty's husband, Hans, one to my husband, Pat, and one to one of my students, Amber Wickstrom. We also gave Pat's folks a blue merle Collie puppy, and we received this computer from Pat's brother. WOW! The whole scenario got QUITE complicated and Patty and I did some pretty fancy footwork to keep anyone from finding out about all of this! I remember telling Patty that I would be ever so glad when it was all over because I had told so many people so many lies trying to keep this a secret, that I couldn't remember who I had told what?! It tired me out trying to stay ahead of everyone! Anyway, when it was all over, Patty and I just stood in my arena hugging each other and crying like a couple of babies as we watched the new Fjord owners hugging their somewhat puzzled Fjords who were tied in a row along the arena wall with HUGE red bows and name tags around their necks. WE DID IT!! As long as I live, I don't think there could ever be a more memorable Christmas. My second WELCOME goes to Dagmar. Since you have some time before you are ready to buy another Fjord, you will have time to look a lot, which is great. Grab a map, Dagmar. We are not far from you!! Come for a visit!! You can ride a WESTERN saddle!! Dusty, our senior stallion, would take you for a "spin" literally. You probably are not familiar with what we have done with Dusty, but I show him primarily western. I do reining with him and a "spin" is a 360 degree turn on the haunches done at 90 miles an hour! FUN! The welcome mat is out, coffe pot on. HAPPY NEW YEAR to all! Gayle Ware Field of Dreams Eugene, OR.
Removing Grounding Rod
This message is from: "Catherine Lassesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Rune (my husband) says I rearrange the outdoors more than wives rearrange their furniture inside the house! So, I think I can give you a few hints in moving ground rods. It is easy if you have a tractor & five foot of chain or so. Wrap the chain around the rod, making a hitch knot. The chain will usually catch on itself. Then the other end to your tractor bucket. Lift your tractor bucket SLOWLY. Usually, the rod (if the chain is secured) will lift right up. Hint: Easier to do in winter than summer! ;-) Always work with safety in mind, please! Good Luck Happy, Happy , Happy New Years to EVERYONE from all of us at HESTEHAVEN! HESTEHAVEN - The Horse Garden www.thehorsegarden.com
Prey / Predator + clicker training
This message is from: partoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello list, thank you for your very interesting thoughts. I hadn't heard of e.g. chimps eating meat before. Found also the clicker idea very fascinating and will learn more about it right away! There are a lot of people training dogs this way here but I haven't realised you could do it with horses too. It makes sense to try it with an alpha mare. It was also interesting to hear so many of you have had so similar situations with your alpha mares! Back to the prey / predator thing: 'We also usually approach horses from a direct-on approach (like a predator) rather than a more cautious approach as a prey animal would.' True, but most people (especially children) who approach anything new and unknown for the first time (be it horses or anything they've never seen before) do it instinctively exactly like a prey animal would: they glance it nervously, take a few uncertain steps, stop to watch, then take a few more steps to see how the new acquaintance reacts, then if it doesn't do anything threatening they proceed slowly, then stop again to weigh the situation, etc. Usually, when we approach our horses from a direct-on approach, we are no strangers anymore but the horse already knows what humans are all about (=usually not dangerous). And, as a matter of fact, a direct-on approach may not be so alien to prey animals, either: horses do the same thing in certain situations: they approach us just as directly when we call them or bring e.g. hay into their pasture - because they have learned from experience that hay bales are not dangerous just like they have learned that humans are not dangerous after being in contact with us a few times. As for the smell of meat, I'm not sure they find our smell dangerous as we humans usually don't smell RAW meat or blood and as most of us eat so much other stuff (also vegetables etc.), too, so it must make a very mixed smell. Besides, suckling foals smell of animal proteins, as well. The consistency of meat and milk are very much alike. What's more, the Icelandic horses are known to have willingly eaten fish for centuries. Even some mineral-supplements (elsewhere than in Iceland) contain fish as well as pulverized bone and horses still don't hesitate to eat it. I tend to believe horses are very cautious about ANYTHING new, be it a prey animal or a predator, until they find it either dangerous or not dangerous. If a horse sees a rabbit, a deer or a cow (all of which are prey animals), or a moving barrel or a waving flag for the first time or unexpectedly, he is likely to get just as scared as he would get when seeing a wolf or a lion in a similar situation. He may be scared of a dog, too, but if the dog doesn't do anything threatening, he probably accepts its presence very soon without thinking about whether it's a prey animal or a predator. So it seems to me it's kind of irrelevant to think about what category we humans might belong to 'cause horses propably don't put anything into these categories - they take everything as they experience it. I don't know but this is my guess. What do you think? Thanks, Sini.
