Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening
This message is from: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I seem to recall something vague about chickens or birds being sensitive to either the feed thru fly control products or the wormer products when they dined in the manure pile. I'm on a limb here but ivermectin is used for heartworm prevention in dogs but is only prescribed if the dogs test negative. Giving a dog heartworm preventative that already has heartworms can kill the dog. So maybe there is a connection. I'd probably be more concerned with the daily feed additives because they would always be in the manure and I've elected not to use them because I don't like to dose anything like that on a daily basis. Meanwhile I just read Jerry Baker's book, he of the common sense cheap methods of gardening. He cautions against some of the downsides of manure and recommends the fake (potting) soils for container gardening. He did not address the potential toxic problems of manure, just that it can mess up the balance of nutrients available to the plants. As another extension of thoughts about food safety has it occurred to anyone but myself that the countries that send us most of our fresh produce, a lot of it to be eaten raw such as berries and tomatoes, are countries where travelers are advised not to drink the water or eat raw fruits and vegetables? And, in my supermarket they no longer tell you country of origin on the produce. Lois in New Jersey, the Garden State (believe it or not) - Original Message - From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening > This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Regarding ivermectin, selenium, anti-biotics etc. is there any consensus > that early deaths from intestinal problems in our dogs might point towards > this? I have had two Corgis go from intestinal "problems" at eleven and > ten. They all, my two present ones also, eat fresh manure. Yum, yum. Jean > > > > > > Jean Walters Gayle > [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" > Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] > http://users.techline.com/jgayle > Send $20 > Three Horses Press > PO Box 104 > Montesano, WA 98563
Re: horse manure and worming
This message is from: "DT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I use red worms to break down my vegetative matter from the kitchen. I used the horse manure for the worm's bedding as they thrive on it. Only thing was that I couldn't use manure that had been recently been through a horses system that had been wormed. Lauren is correct. The 3 year old compost you have would be great. It could even be younger and be terrific. Heck, I just planted primroses in manure that had only been lying around for a couple of months and they are thriving. Deb
Due Date Calculator
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a site that helps you predict a foaling due date as well as give you a schedule for shots and other things. Kinda neat :-) http://www.lilbeginnings.com/links/info/breeding/foaling/ Kate Mom to Baldur the wonder Fjord Plus two brilliant human children
Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Regarding ivermectin, selenium, anti-biotics etc. is there any consensus that early deaths from intestinal problems in our dogs might point towards this? I have had two Corgis go from intestinal "problems" at eleven and ten. They all, my two present ones also, eat fresh manure. Yum, yum. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you DeeAnne. Not a gardener any more but that note sure helps in talking to people about " their organic gardens ". Most are old farm gardens, using the composted material from a few cows , horses and various other owned animals. Great vegetables and fruit. We are healthy and happy. Tillie Dun Lookin' Fjords Bud,Tillie & Amy Evers Redmond OR (541) 548-6018 http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/8589
Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening
This message is from: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DeeAnna: Thank you very much for your response to my question. It was what I was looking for. My husband and I aren't sure exactly what we want to do or how much we want to get involved in starting a new project. We've just had the feeling our farm was underutilized and we are in an excellent location to "do something". We are in protected farmland but on a busy commuter road. My husband has favored doing annual and perennial flowers and I was leaning toward the edibles. I think the flower idea might be a lot less of a hassle. One other questionif you were doing raised beds to grow your own vegetables what would you use for soil? Around here they sell a black dirt I strongly suspect is processed sludge/sewage. Topsoil is also suspect as it looks too perfect. I'd probably be better off taking a chance on what I already have which is the compost. Our native soil is clay and shale. Thanks again for your advice. Lois Berenyi - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Lori wrote: > "...by the time the compost gets to the bottom of the hill it is at > least several years old. We want to grow everything organically the > dangers of E.coli from food grown in composted manure what, if any, > residues are left by the wormers given to the horses" > > This is a really long-winded answer, Lori. I hope you find it helpful. > > The essential question I have is whether you want to just use > organic-type growing techniques or if you want to sell your produce > labeled as "organic". There's a big difference. In the first case, your > manure would probably be just fine to use. In the second, it most > definitely would not be. > > So... If you intend to be a ~~certified~~ organic grower or at least to > adhere to the standards of a certified organic grower, even if you > choose not to go through the certification process, there are some > important issues to think about: > Using synthetic chemicals in your livestock is not necessarily a > disqualification for a certified organic vegetable grower, but you will > be expected to gradually wean yourself away from all such products on > your farm until you are wholly organic in your entire operation. No > synthetic rat bait, insecticides, antibiotics, etc. > You will get a list of approved products that you may use. If you want to > use something that's not on the list, you should check with your > certifying organization to see if the product is acceptable. They will > want to know the list of ingredients in the product and specifically how > the ingredients are processed. > It will take several years (3 I believe) for your cropland to be > considered totally organic. During the conversion time, you probably > will not be able to sell your produce labeled as organic. But you have > to use all the practices of the organic grower during that time, or > you'll have to start over. > These transition years are considered necessary so that synthetic > chemicals in the soil can decompose and be washed out of the topsoil. > The time period is somewhat arbitrary. If you look in the technical > literature, some researchers suspect it takes longer than that for some > synthetic chemicals and their breakdown products to dissipate, but about > 3 years is a good compromise. > As long as you use synthetic wormers in your horses, you probably will > not be able to use the compost on your crops. You cannot prove the > levels of wormer (and antibiotics or other non-natural chemicals, for > that matter) in the compost are at negligible levels. > Even if you could prove all this, the idea is that synthetic chemicals > often break down into other "non natural" compounds - and those > compounds are also undesirable in certified organic cropland. > You will have to isolate your cropland from non-organic cropland by a > buffer strip of crops that are sold as non-organic. This buffer strip > protects your crops from adjoining cropland that is not organic -- the > theory is that any chemicals used on the non-organic cropland will not > contaminate the organic land. > It's also important to use seed from certified organic sources if at all > possible. And absolutely in no way should any genetically modified seeds > ever be used in organic farming. The scary part about this is that genes > from GMOs (genetically modified organisms) are beginning to be found in > even the most carefully and strictly grown organic crops. Pollen travels > a long ways. > > Bottom line: If you want to honestly sell your produce as organic -- > even if you don't choose to be certified -- you really should rethink > your approach to worming your horses if you want to use the compost on > your crops. Organic means just that -- using no synthetically-created or > overly-
Re: Questions about using composted manure for vegetable gardening
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori wrote: "...by the time the compost gets to the bottom of the hill it is at least several years old. We want to grow everything organically the dangers of E.coli from food grown in composted manure what, if any, residues are left by the wormers given to the horses" This is a really long-winded answer, Lori. I hope you find it helpful. The essential question I have is whether you want to just use organic-type growing techniques or if you want to sell your produce labeled as "organic". There's a big difference. In the first case, your manure would probably be just fine to use. In the second, it most definitely would not be. So... If you intend to be a ~~certified~~ organic grower or at least to adhere to the standards of a certified organic grower, even if you choose not to go through the certification process, there are some important issues to think about: Using synthetic chemicals in your livestock is not necessarily a disqualification for a certified organic vegetable grower, but you will be expected to gradually wean yourself away from all such products on your farm until you are wholly organic in your entire operation. No synthetic rat bait, insecticides, antibiotics, etc. You will get a list of approved products that you may use. If you want to use something that's not on the list, you should check with your certifying organization to see if the product is acceptable. They will want to know the list of ingredients in the product and specifically how the ingredients are processed. It will take several years (3 I believe) for your cropland to be considered totally organic. During the conversion time, you probably will not be able to sell your produce labeled as organic. But you have to use all the practices of the organic grower during that time, or you'll have to start over. These transition years are considered necessary so that synthetic chemicals in the soil can decompose and be washed out of the topsoil. The time period is somewhat arbitrary. If you look in the technical literature, some researchers suspect it takes longer than that for some synthetic chemicals and their breakdown products to dissipate, but about 3 years is a good compromise. As long as you use synthetic wormers in your horses, you probably will not be able to use the compost on your crops. You cannot prove the levels of wormer (and antibiotics or other non-natural chemicals, for that matter) in the compost are at negligible levels. Even if you could prove all this, the idea is that synthetic chemicals often break down into other "non natural" compounds - and those compounds are also undesirable in certified organic cropland. You will have to isolate your cropland from non-organic cropland by a buffer strip of crops that are sold as non-organic. This buffer strip protects your crops from adjoining cropland that is not organic -- the theory is that any chemicals used on the non-organic cropland will not contaminate the organic land. It's also important to use seed from certified organic sources if at all possible. And absolutely in no way should any genetically modified seeds ever be used in organic farming. The scary part about this is that genes from GMOs (genetically modified organisms) are beginning to be found in even the most carefully and strictly grown organic crops. Pollen travels a long ways. Bottom line: If you want to honestly sell your produce as organic -- even if you don't choose to be certified -- you really should rethink your approach to worming your horses if you want to use the compost on your crops. Organic means just that -- using no synthetically-created or overly-processed products to grow your food. That means insecticides, rodenticides, antibiotics, fungicides, etc. used on your cropland all need to come from "natural" sources. I would be very sceptical of a grower who sold produce touted as "organic", but used compost on her cropland from ivermectin-treated horses, even if it was composted for years. This isn't "organic" produce in a strict or even a casual interpretation of the term. Call it "farm fresh", "naturally grown", or whatever, but not organic. As far as E. coli is concerned, you should not harvest and eat food from land that has had fresh manure recently applied to it. At least one growing season of decomposition/composting is required before harvest if manure is applied to certified-organic fields. That amount of time is considered long enough for most of the pathogens such as E. coli to die off. This means a year or more of composting should make the manure safe enough to use on your cropland. It's also important to wash produce well using safe drinking water will remove any remaining pathogens before the food is eaten. DeeAnna Organic Materials Review Institute: http://www.omri.org/ Organic Crop Improvement Association: http://www.ocia.org/ Sunflowe
FJORD CHAT SUNDAY NIGHT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petsandvets.com";>PETSANDVETS.COM FJORD HORSE CHAT SUNDAY NIGHT 9:00 pm to 10:00pm (Eastern Time) http://chat.petsandvets.com";>CHAT ROOMS http://chat.petsandvets.com http://www.petsandvets.com/forums";>MESSAGE BOARDS http://www.petsandvets.com/forums
Re: Fjord Wanted
This message is from: "Deb Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ask Dave McWeathy. he said he has a good one for dressage. He's on the list but I'm not sure how often he checks in. He is a great guy and his horses are as he says. Debi Williams Williams Hill Fjords Waterford, Pa Home of Tolgar,Tanja, Belle,Hilda, Beckett, Rosie and Daniel(and soon Senja) - Original Message - From: "Kelly Gage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:52 PM Subject: Fjord Wanted > This message is from: "Kelly Gage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hello Listgoers! > > I am looking for a dressage prospect in a fjord package. > > My price range is up to 5,000 but I'm willing to go a little over for the > right horse, mus have good gaits, with a healthy overstep, and mind and > above all likes to travel. I would like a gelding, but I'm open to mares. > Must be green broke, knows walk, trot, canter, steers and breaks. Anything > else is a plus. > > I can promise any horse I buy a safe home, with full time training and care. > All I ask is a horse that would enjoy dressage and would be able to do it > sucessfully, and enjoy the occasional trail. > > Please contact me privately by email. > > Thank you, > > Kelly Gage > > _ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: Round bales
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ...There may be some confusion between dry round bales and round haylage bales? My understanding is that the botulism danger comes only with the haylage bales I think haylage bales have the greatest risk of botulism, Gail, because the bales are deliberately constructed so they will ferment in anaerobic (low or no oxygen) conditions, the ideal conditions for botulism. But anything ... ANYTHING ... in which a dead mouse or other critter that has decomposed anaerobically can be contaminated with botulism spores, since botulism naturally lives in their digestive systems. So if you see dead mouse bits in a regular hay bale, don't feed it to your horses. Cattle are more tolerant of botulism contamination in their food because their digestive systems are much different. DeeAnna
Re: LAST NOTICE: P.N.F.P.G. MEETING Sat. April 13th, 2002
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kathleen; You make me hungry!!, and, wishful that I could attend your meeting :):):) Linda in Minnesota -- our remaining snow should melt today - weatherman is promising temps in the 60's by next week. YA-HOO!!!
RE: Saddle question
This message is from: "Dagrun Aarsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks Karen, Excellent, thanks for all the good information! One day when I move back to Europe I will team up with a saddlemaker and make affordable yet nice wide tree saddles :-) Seems like there's a niche in the market. Dagrun > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Karen McCarthy > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:36 PM > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: Re: Saddle question > > > This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi Dagrun, > I recently posted almost the same question, as I DO have a Wintec Isabell > Dressage w/ an Xtra wide gullet, and it barely fits 1/2 of my > horses... Sue > Banks sent me some really good advice, as did Margaret Strachen, > and I will > fwd their replies to you privately, but do check out this > discussion at the > Ultimate Dressage website, it really opened my eyes!! > It is a discussion about how to measure the back, and also postings about > what kind of saddles people have had sucess with. The Thorowgood > Griffin is > one I heard good stuff about. > Good luck! > Karen > > http://www.ultimatedressage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f =15&t=000606 _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
