Breeding-genetics
This message is from: Me Kint "would we be well-advised to cross our sporty types on our drafty types on a more regular basis? " I'm not a breeder, nor expert in evaluating conformation. But in my opinion, a well put together horse (any type or breed) is a well put together horse. We have a retired draft horse that lives across the road. He is gorgeous, well put together, nice neck set, his front half is in balance with his back half. At the LA County fair, there are show divisions for Draft horses. Some gorgeous well put together specimens can be seem there. Yes a Fjord is a small draft horse, you can keep the substantial bone & build. But I have seen photos of fjords that are not balanced, drafty yes, but there front half & back half belong to 2 different horses. Temperament is very important, but producing well put together, balanced fjord horses, in my opinion, is just as important. >From Mary's iPad PLEASE REMOVE ALL E-MAIL ADDRESSES BEFORE SENDING OR FORWARDING THIS EMAIL. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Stallions and mares
This message is from: Phillip Odden Hello from Phillip Odden in Northwestern Wisconsin where it has come time to fire the kitchen wood burner as fall moves closer to winter. The NFHR evaluation program is not meant only to select stallions. It seems that it takes two to tango. Mare selection is perhaps more important than stallion selection. I have heard many experienced horseman say that the mare contributes 60%. That would be 50% genetics and an added percentage in nurturing the foal. Ruthie wrote; I agree that it is an effective way to choose particular bloodlines-- but therein lies the detriment for the breed as a whole in the long term. Consistently selecting the same bloodlines for their phenotype will eventually screw up their genotype, to put it simply. Ruthie has a good point here especially since there are fewer and fewer foals being born each year in North America as well as Norway and other countries. Since horses are not culled these days like beef or dairy cattle for conformation defects and natural predators and harsh weather does not cull weak individuals these days, it is up to people who breed Fjord horses to attempt to breed individuals that conform to breed standards with regard to breed characteristics, leg, bone and muscle quality and not least of all temperament and trainability. Since there are no perfect horses ( unless one is unable to evaluate strengths and faults ) we are forced to choose the faults or strengths that one can live with in a horse. The NFHR evaluation system offers a tool, that is is to say a group of trained evaluators and a set of tests that will help to identify how well an individual Fjord conforms to breed standards. With the knowledge you receive through the evaluation process you are free do just as you please. In North America we are free to improve or ruin a breed on our own - one breeding at a time. Whereas in most European countries Stallions must be licensed and mares need to be evaluated in order that the foals can be registered. My goal is to improve the Fjord horse- human relationship through education. I am not pushing my stallion. Having bred outside mares for several years, I no longer invite outside mares. I don't have time to breed outside mares now that we are leading our Rural Life tours to Norway, Sweden and Iceland. And I am breeding very few of my own mares. I have selected a stallion and mares with considerations to form and function. When we are not traveling overseas we enjoy competing our Fjords in open shows through American Driving Society sponsored Combined Driving Events and Pleasure Driving. We use our Fjords for light draft work on our farm and for trail riding and hunting. In short we are putting our selection process, breeding program and training program to the test through use. Form and function. If horses are well bred they should remain sound and be trainable. If people learn more about form and function together with good handling and training methods both the horse and the horse handler will be happier. That is what the NFHR evaluation program has to offer. Horses aren't perfect, people aren't perfect and the evaluation program isn't perfect. We just keep working to improve. The more you learn, the more you find there is to learn. All the best, Phillip Odden Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Using the evaluation system for stallion selection.
This message is from: "ruth bushnell" <>...But, all ranting aside, the widespread prevalence of comments like this is a real detriment to people's understanding of the system (Lori - --- I think both you and Solveig have touched on the same aspect of the Eval system, perhaps mine as well-- that âperception is everythingâ and âlow informationâ participants may be glued to the dot to dot blue ribbon concept of bygone show days. Shows perhaps diminished by the Eval system, as well as genetic diversity. It appeared there were more Eval entrants at Libby than show entrants, but that is an unverified observation on my part. Yearâs ago I asked that we not use blue ribbons in the Eval system--- rely on numerical critique aloneâfor the aforementioned reason; if we are concentrating our breeding choices on the crème d la crème of the breed (so to speak) we are subsequently inbreeding. A highly rated stallion is a highly used stallion and it is the creation of popular studs, more than any other thing, that can alter the genetic balance of a pure breed. Ruthie, nw mt us Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Using the evaluation system for stallion selection.
This message is from: Lori Albrough On 10/15/13 10:13 AM, Olivia Farm, Inc. wrote: Again, where I agree is that if everyone only looks for the "best" stallion out there Solveig's post, with it's wonderfully ironic (to me) quotation marks, has given me a poke to speak up. For years we have been subjected to ads touting the "Best NFHR evaluated stallion", also ads with comments like "fifth highest NFHR evaluated mare", and now even "highest ranked stallion in NFHR". Fer crying out loud already, the system does not RANK horses! But, all ranting aside, the widespread prevalence of comments like this is a real detriment to people's understanding of the system, and for more educated people, it detracts from their respect, and ultimately, their participation in the system. What is the "best" horse for you is not the "best" horse for me, and anyone who says that the evaluation system says which horse is "best" is just blowing smoke and displaying ignorance. Lori -- Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords R.R.#3 Moorefield Ont Canada N0G 2K0 phone: 519-638-5598 email: l...@bluebirdlane.com http://www.bluebirdlane.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Using the evaluation system for stallion selection.
This message is from: "Olivia Farm, Inc." Hello from Olivia Farm! Kay wanted to hear from a breeder, and I decided to post, even though I haven't done so in quite a while. I hope I qualify as a "breeder" of Norwegian Fjords well enough to answer :). On the topic of evaluations as a tool for stallion selection, I have to agree and also disagree with Ruthie. I agree that if people aren't being careful in their own selection of stallions, looking at pedigrees, blood-lines, and traits, we could definitely stand to loose quality individuals and diverse blood-lines that are important to the integrity of the breed. Because we do not have a mandatory system, there are individual stallions of high-quality, and sometimes rare genetics, that have not been through the system and can therefore be overlooked. However, where I disagree is that the evaluation system is hampering genetic quality and diversity. The eval system IS a tool, but it is up to the individual to use, or not use, the information provided, just like with everything else. Honestly, every quality horse from every type, style, blood-line and breeding program has a chance to do well in our eval system. Only ones with serious faults are given yellow ribbons (which technically signify horses that are not of breeding quality), and who wants to breed to a horse with serious faults? Again, where I agree is that if everyone only looks for the "best" stallion out there, we will be short on genetics, but again, that is the people being ignorant about the system and not a failing of the system itself. Breeding a blue ribbon to a blue ribbon DOES NOT guarantee a blue ribbon horse! This summer I brought 4 colts for the evaluators to comment upon. I can laughingly report that the one who did the best was not out of my highest evaluated mare! Actually, it was out of my lowest evaluated mare. BUT, the cross between her and the stallion (who is, yes, a blue ribbon individual), was phenomenal. However, the evaluators were correct in her failings and his strengths and what seemed like a good idea "on paper" actually was a great idea in reality. I'm not always in agreement with the evaluators, of any system (and yes, I've studied almost all of the Fjord evaluation systems in the world). And yes, I sometimes feel that certain things are overlooked, that things like offspring, producing power, varied genetics, and certain traits could be lost if we only relied on a few people to make our ultimate breeding decisions. But, that is where breeders need to be breeders and do the research, homework, and learn how to evaluate their own stock. The evaluation process is just one source for finding out things about breeding horses - it is, in my opinion, always good to have more information. Solveig Watanabe Olivia Farm http://www.oliviafarm.com/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
