Breed TYPE
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is an excerpt from a discussion on the Equine Studies Institute Forum on type. While it is discussing the Spanish horse, I think it describes what we are thinking of when we talk about TYPE For the Fjord horse also: *** Kim, the WHOLE HORSE is of ** type. That's the part you're having trouble with. You have to let the WHOLE HORSE smack you in the eye and in the heart. It isn't his head; it isn't his back or body or legs; it isn't even the WHOLE of his bodily build; it is the very smell of him, and the way he thinks, the way he typically responds to things, how he solves problems, what his approach to life and people is. Also, importantly, the way he moves. This is what type is -- it's ALL of these things. Dr. Deb Bennett Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, cloudy with showers, 65 degrees today
Re: Responsibility toward breed type, etc..
This message is from: Starfire Farm, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mary Ofjord wrote: I don't know how many times I heard the judges and evaluators comment about how they liked the refinement of this or that horse. I don't want to see these horses refined down to look like Arabs or QH's and I saw one at Blue Earth last year that looked more like a nice QH mare than a Fjord. Rather than the word refinement, perhaps the judges could use the word type to describe the horses. I'm afraid that when the breeders hear the judges use this type of terminology, refinement is exactly what they will try to breed towards, because that's what is placing. I'm not saying we should have clunky horses out there, but lets not go overboard on the refinement issue either. I agree Mary. One of the mares that I presented at Blue Earth was very refined. One of the comments on her score sheet was too refined and I agree. What to do about this? If this mare is ever bred, she should be bred to a prepotent stallion who can pass along good bone size. On the other hand, I've seen Fjord mares placed high in conformation classes (at a horse show) who did not display any feminine qualities. They did have good conformation and movement, but these were mares in which I would have liked to have seen some more refinement, at least enough that you could tell them apart from the geldings. Beth -- Beth Beymer Sandy North Starfire Farm, Berthoud CO http://www.starfirefarm.com
Re: responsibility towards breed type, etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/5/01 7:31:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. Judges..look at the QH and Paints, etc..you know, those breeds that have abilities and bone and feet bred out of them. The judges at shows are responsible for what is winning and what is notfill in the blanks here, folks.just go watch a breed English or Western Pleasure class.don't forget the halter classes What I like is that some of the QH people have seen what has happened to the breed and want no part of it. So yes, they've formed their own registry to bring back the Foundation Quarter Horses. I give them credit for wanting the breed back to the great, all purpose style horse it once was. If we ever breed Merry Gold again (a big if, depending on some hock exrays too) it will be to one of the FQH's. Pamela
Re: Responsibility toward breed type, etc..
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Mary, List Members, I agree Mary! We have heard people wanting Fjords with Arabian type heads very often. Everytime we hear this, we cringe. The NFHR Breed Standard itself states: *Head: Medium-sized, with a broad, flat forehead, a straight or slightly dished profile and good definition.* *Muzzle: Wide and fleshy with large, softly elastic, outlined nostrils.* A slight dish is quite different than an Arabian style head, although we have been seeing Fjords out there with such a head, including a smaller muzzle. One instance that really comes to my mind is when we had our horses privately evaluated. We were perplexed about a stallion potential we had purchased. We had gone over the breed standards again and again, and found various faults. We then sought our vet (an equine vet, who himself breeds and races standardbreds) to get his opinion. He also went over the breed standards, studied Von Bon's book, and various other literature, and came to the same conclusion we did. This colt had some faults, one of which was a too refined head. All the faults together made us and our vet decide gelding should be heavily considered. We discussed this with various breeders, the previous owner, and a very good friend and breeder who lives close to us, Bernadine Karns. Again, the majority of us thought gelding would be the answer, but we did decide to go with Mike May's suggestion and have him privately looked at. Believe it or not, out of all of us, husband, myself, vet, other breeders, even our farrier, the only person who thought we should wait to geld was the evaluator! We were told this colt had a beautiful head, MAYBE a tad too refined, but definitely of the modern type of Fjord!! What we found interesting was it seemed as if the modern-like appearance of this particular Fjord outweighed his various other faults. (Please note, this thought could very well have been my perception.) There was discussion on exercises to help his legs, trimming tips to give the illusion of straighter legs, etc. We did learn a great deal, especially about the breeding trends in Europe and what is supposedly currently desireable both overseas and here. However, one thing we did learn was that if we, as breeders, see faults in a stallion potential based upon the NFHR Breed Standard, and our highly respected vet agrees, then we will geld, regardless of what the new trends for the Fjord future might be. We showed the private 'evaluation/judging/rating/whatever people wish to term this' results to our vet, and between this colt's head type, knees, neck, and NASTY disposition, we decided gelding was the best decision. Afterall, people all agree that ok stallions make fantastic geldings! That is exactly what happened with this boy. He now is a loveable and beautiful boy, and is a great worker. Our biggest concern, from a breeder's standpoint, is how closely do the evaluators and judges use the NFHR Breed Standards? Personally, I think Brian Jensen had a fantastic idea about using three evaluators. That way, the Fjord is looked at by three different pairs of eyes, the results are compared, and eventually agreed upon. Sometimes, with just two people, the stronger personality (no offense to anyone) will end up making the final tally. Also, we just watched the tape from the Libby show. Why was there a gelding in the halter class with a white stripe? *All of the accepted Fjord horse colors and their variations must be kept. Avoid markings that are not typical for the breed. A small star is acceptable. * This stripe is totally against breed standard. Are the shows more lax about breed type? Thanks, Lynda Bailey's Norwegian Fjord Horse Farm White Cloud, MI 231.689.9902 http://hometown.aol.com/heithingi/BaileysNorwegianFjords.html
responsibility towards breed type, etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a quick note. Thought..many Americans are breeding European Warmbloods, inspections and all. Those that don't go through the inspections..tend to go towards the generic breed associationsAmerican Warmblood, etc, etc.just pick up any magazine that annually lists acknowledged breed organizations in the UScross anything with anything and start a new breed organization for the resulting foal. We took our TB mare and Hanoverian sired foal to an inspectionit was interesting. It also takes the vets working with the breeders, the breeders working with the organizations, the horse owners working with all of the above, as should they all be working together.and don't forget the officials at the show.. Judges..look at the QH and Paints, etc..you know, those breeds that have abilities and bone and feet bred out of them. The judges at shows are responsible for what is winning and what is notfill in the blanks here, folks.just go watch a breed English or Western Pleasure class.don't forget the halter classes Sorry, I digress.. The judges at the Fjord shows need to maintain their standards, regardless of which Fjord organization any particular Fjord was bred under. Just thoughts for the equation. I am a firm believer in cooperation, and all the greys that come between black and white. There is an answer out there, it will just take a lot of good minds coming together with good thoughts, from all sides of the table. I am not so sure about breeding out all those bad qualities in horses..what do you think supports my Fjord habit?!!??? Yes, I am grinning like a maniac now We do see, however, a lot of generic traits that would make these (any breed) horses better off without them.as any veterinarian can testify to, or the spouse of the veterinarian, or their staff, etc. I love the controversial subjects on this listpeople are thinking.cups of coffee are being set down quickly and repeatedly on the computer tablesmessy cleanup, but great thought provokers! Keep up the good work, All! Carole SweetModesto, CA pswhere Nattmann sweats like a stuck pig in this warm afternoon heat, but isn't ready to shed his hair yet.I tried!
Breed Type
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paula Steinmetz wrote: That there is even a discussion of type - lighter vs draught type, riding vs driving type, classic, etc., says a lot about the current breeding programs... If the breeders were hitting mark, meeting the breed standard, (the Rosendalsborken standard), the discussion of type and suitability for one discipline or another would be a moot point - a non-issue. The problem here is the word type - it can mean more than one thing, and to me this discussion of type is NOT about light vs draft vs sport etc. My understanding of what the Norwegians mean by type is a set of characteristics that, when taken together, make a horse a Fjordhorse. You can look at a Fjordhorse and know its a Fjordhorse. It's not just the dun colour and the stripe and the mane, although those are part of it. It's also the shape of the head, the look of the eye, the size, shape and placement of the ears, the crest and shape of the neck, the rounded lines of the body, the length of the hip, the look of the topline, the character, the temperament, a whole host of things that when you put them together, says FJORD. It's all very difficult to articulate, but that is Breed Type and I believe that's what the discussion is about. Breed Type basically says nothing about the different uses of the horse, or indeed about lighter or drafty or sporty or whatever body-styles. But if our goal was to breed dun-coloured dressage ponies, we really wouldn't care if their heads were long and narrow, if they had white stockings, if they had long skinny necks, etc, as long as they were excellent dressage ponies. But since we are breeding Fjords we have to place Breed Type above all else, which is, I believe, the moral of Anne's story about the two mares in Norway. Lori A.
