Re: TEETH TESTICLES VET REPORT ON FILE WITH NFHR
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think this is an important subject and I would like to use Carol's message to answer her statements. This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Re this discussion, I want to list the important points, as I see them. #1 - That having these reports done by a vet and on file with the NFHR is a small, but positive step in maintaining quality in the breed. What happens if I don't file this vet report the NFHR? There is no way to enforce it without hurting the wrong persons. #2 - Someone suggested that since the average American Fjord stallion only breeds 1.5 mares a year, mares should be included. I agree. Foals can inherit misaligned teeth from the dam as well. It is true that misaligned teeth can be inherited from either the sire or dam. This is why the NFHR evaluation checks the teeth on both stallions and mares. The alignment has to be within one quarter of a tooth's width. Some show judges I know will also check the teeth alignment in the halter classes at horse shows, no matter what the breed. #3 - This is not a licensing to breed plan. No horses are going to be prohibited from breeding. So why do it at all? #4 - Requiring that this information be on file at NFHR will be a SERVICE TO BREEDERS BUYERS. -- While it won't prevent anyone from breeding parrot mouthed horses, it will discourage the practice. As a breeder and/or buyer, I determine this information and much more when I inspect the horse. Why should I depend on the NFHR to have this information? What we need to encourage is educating the inexperienced breeders and/or buyers on what to look for. This is one of the purposes of the NFHR evaluation program. # 7- Mares and stallions should be vet checked for teeth (alignment) and (the stallion's) testicles (checked) before they begin breeding, say at age two. I sort of like this idea, but at age three. I also think that it should be done at an evaluation. Since it is voluntary, there is no way to enforce it on every horse. #8 - This report would have to be on file with the NFHR before any offspring from the mare or stallion could be registered. NOTE: I'm not saying any horse can be prevented from breeding by the Registry. I am saying that their foals can't be registered if the vet report on teeth and testicles is not on file. --- Again, no difference than other paper requirements to register foals. This will open up a legal can of worms! You are punishing the foal owner or future owner. The foal might have perfect conformation, but either the stallion or mare owners failed to file the paper work, or worst yet, it got lost in the mail. Another point, what happens when a horse is examined at three and has no front teeth misalignment, but develops a misalignment by age six? The paper work was filed at age three. This exact problem occurred this year at the five year old stallion evaluations in Norway. The stallion was licensed at age three, which included inspection of the teeth. At the five year old evaluations, he was not licensed because of an overbite, even though he was the second highest scoring five year old. What happens to his off-spring? #9 - I think this program could go a long way to check the proliferation of these faults. People can be encouraged by timely reminders in the Herald, for instance, to check out at the Registry horses they're considering buying or breeding to. Again, I think education is the key! Also, don't rule out the impact of show awards and evaluation results. Many breeders are more likely to breed to a particular stallion because that stallion has won at major shows or has been awarded blue ribbons at the evaluations. #10 - The knowledge that these reports are filed on every U.S. breeding Fjord should go a long way toward encouraging breeders to pay more attention to these inheritable faults. Buyers and breeders as well. What about the other inheritable faults? Do the vets also have to document off-set knees, steep croups, small eyes, etc? Where do we stop? I hope this topic isn't dropped. It's much too important. I agree that this is important topic and I thank you for bringing it up. More education may be needed. Thanks for your time and attention!! Curt Pierce Bristow VA
Re: TEETH TESTICLES VET REPORT ON FILE WITH NFHR
This message is from: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 08:02 AM 1/26/01 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: Mariposa Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just having the words teeth and testicles in the same sentence is worrysome! Yes I have to agree with you on that one Mark. ;-) Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TEETH TESTICLES VET REPORT ON FILE WITH NFHR
This message is from: carol j makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mariposa Farm wrote: This message is from: Mariposa Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just having the words teeth and testicles in the same sentence is worrysome! Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That brings to mind a comment from my vet in southern WI. She always noticed the position of men's hands when she suggested spaying and especially nuetering a clients dog. LOL She said that she could hardly keep a straight face. I'll have to ask our present vet about that one. LOL I'm sorry. But I won't put my mare through a teeth and testicle check. She'd flunk one of the tests for sure! eg Pamela -- Built FJORD tough Carol M. On Golden Pond Northern Wisconsin
Re: TEETH TESTICLES VET REPORT ON FILE WITH NFHR
This message is from: Mariposa Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just having the words teeth and testicles in the same sentence is worrysome! Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry. But I won't put my mare through a teeth and testicle check. She'd flunk one of the tests for sure! eg Pamela
Re: TEETH TESTICLES VET REPORT ON FILE WITH NFHR
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/25/01 1:03:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: # 7- Mares and stallions should be vet checked for teeth and testicles before they begin breeding, say at age two. I'm sorry. But I won't put my mare through a teeth and testicle check. She'd flunk one of the tests for sure! eg Pamela
Re: TEETH TESTICLES VET REPORT ON FILE WITH NFHR
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Re this discussion, I want to list the important points, as I see them. #1 - That having these reports done by a vet and on file with the NFHR is a small, but positive step in maintaining quality in the breed. #2 - Someone suggested that since the average American Fjord stallion only breeds 1.5 mares a year, mares should be included. I agree. Foals can inherit misaligned teeth from the dam as well. #3 - This is not a licensing to breed plan. No horses are going to be prohibited from breeding. #4 - Requiring that this information be on file at NFHR will be a SERVICE TO BREEDERS BUYERS. -- While it won't prevent anyone from breeding parrot mouthed horses, it will discourage the practice. #5 - The NFHR requires all kinds of reports to be on file; such as TRANSFER REPORTS, STALLION BREEDING REPORTS, DNA TEST REPORTS. This is no different. Just one more way to control quality in the breed. #6 - This has nothing to do with registering horses. It's not a requirement for registration. # 7- Mares and stallions should be vet checked for teeth and testicles before they begin breeding, say at age two. #8 - This report would have to be on file with the NFHR before any offspring from the mare or stallion could be registered. NOTE: I'm not saying any horse can be prevented from breeding by the Registry. I am saying that their foals can't be registered if the vet report on teeth and testicles is not on file. --- Again, no difference than other paper requirements to register foals. #9 - I think this program could go a long way to check the proliferation of these faults. People can be encouraged by timely reminders in the Herald, for instance, to check out at the Registry horses they're considering buying or breeding to. #10 - The knowledge that these reports are filed on every U.S. breeding Fjord should go a long way toward encouraging breeders to pay more attention to these inheritable faults. Buyers and breeders as well. There's probably lots more to say on the subject, but I haven't time this morning. I hope this topic isn't dropped. It's much too important. Once Again Having teeth and testicles tested and on file with the NFHR is a SMALL but IMPORTANT thing we can do to maintain standards in our breed. It would cost almost nothing. Could be done at owner's convenience. There's MUCH MUCH more that could be done to protect and preserve the qualities we love in this breed . . . But, this particular plan is an easy one and an important one, and I can't see how anyone who has the best interest of the breed at heart, could object. What do you think? ONE MORE THING - Some people have gotten the impression that overbites or underbites are common in the breed. NOBODY HAS SAID THAT! However, if we allow horses to breed that have these conditions, you will see a lot of it in the area the faulty horses are breeding. This fault is a strongly inherited trait. Everyone knows that! It's a crime to breed animals and not do everything in one's power to prevent it happening. Think of it this way -- The reason misaligned mouths are considered such a serious fault is that with such mouths, horses have a very hard time grazing or can't do it at all. --- This would never happen in the wild, as those horses would waste away and die. However, now we can keep them fat and jolly by feeding them mush all their lives. Fine!!! But, we don't have to breed those horses. Best Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
