Re: Temperament vs Character

1998-05-04 Thread Amy K. White
This message is from: "Amy K. White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

At 11:37 AM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
 I am sure this particular Fjord character of will influences some
>of the other breed character that make the Fjord so endearing, 

Sue, I thought that your post was very insightful and a good way to
look at differences in "temperament". One of the helpful things about this
list for me, a newcomer to Fjords, has been the discussion of the Fjord
character and temperament. When I began working with our gelding last year,
I'm sorry to say  I described him to several people as "stubborn". (My other
horses are Thoroughbreds and an Arab, so the hot-blooded temperament is what
I'm used to.)
I have come to view his personality much differently now, especially after
this list started. Thank you, Sue, and many of you for sharing your your
methods and philosophies that are so helpful in training Fjords.

Amy White
Omaha, Nebraska
>



Temperament vs Character

1998-05-04 Thread Sam & Sue Banks
This message is from: Sam & Sue Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

In discussing Evaluations, people mentioned temperament, character
along with misbehavior and aggression. Since I am not sure how the words
'temperament' and 'character' are being used, I thought I would put
forth my understanding and I hope that those more knowledgeable can
clarify these words better for me.
 Temperament can be used two ways in the dog world. One can just be
a general term-a descriptive "good' or 'bad' temperament. The second way
is more specific- there are temperament tests for puppies, similar to
the tests used on humans (Myers-Briggs for example) to help categorize
the puppy so that a breeder can suggest the best temperament to fit the
new owner's expectations and needs. A super obedience prospect pup would
likely be too lively and inventive for a pet owner, for instance. So in
my mind, temperaments are not good or bad in themselves, but can be good
or bad depending on the outlook of the persons around the animal.
Dealing with certain human temperaments frustates me, and likewise I am
sure I drive some people nuts, but just because we are different does
not mean we are bad.
 I think the combination of certain temperaments plus the
enviornment that the animal is raised in make those combinations
dangerous and 'bad' for humans. Most experienced professional horseman
feel that a dominant horse will make the best performance horse, of
course once you have trained it properly. But a dominant horse can
become agressive and dangerous in the wrong hands, as we have all seen.
Pat Parelli writes something like this- "what is a thrill for me might
be a chill for you." Different temperaments appeal to different people,
and, like dogs, different temperaments can be suitable for different
horse uses. And different people expect different 'behavior' from their
horses, so their horses may be 'good' to them but 'bad' to me, and this
is training, not inherent temperament.
 So in my mind, a stallion that misbehaves should not be severely
penalized for his behavior and labeled as having a bad temperament
immediately. The quality of the offspring are used to see whether he has
a useful temperament to pass on- as someone mentioned on the list, she
had seen an undesireable temperament passed on by a stallion into his
foals despite proper handling of the foals.
 Character defines all the animals in the breed- I want Fjord
character, not Morgan, Thoroughbred or Quarter Horse character in my
Fjords. I love the imagery of character in the proposed Standard
Published in the Herald. Sometimes only images can describe things that
defy words.
 I just have to comment about one aspect of Fjord character, I often
hear 'stubborn' and 'willful' and this is such a negative slant. I
prefer to call my horses opinionated and strong willed and I respect
these traits and use them. How can I put this? When you talk with
another person who has strong feelings and opinions on a subject, but
you disagree and start telling them they are wrong, all you get is a
fight, hurt feelings and shutdown of communication. But if you can
respect their opinion, and calmly show them your ideas, often you can
'agree to disagree', sometimes they can understand your point of view,
and at least you can respect each other's point of view without anyone
feeling wrong. 
 So my horses are willing to share their opinion easily with me, and
then I know where I am with them and I plan how to convince them that my
opinion is a good one. If I want to argue, my Fjords are more than
willing to fight for their opinions, so I don't argue and fight, I just
'wait', and asking with my legs aids, for instance, until they make it
their choice to listen. So I "talk" with my aids and I "listen" to them
with for their reaction, and we communicate. 
 I have had 2 other experienced horsepeople try to "help" me at
different points (and I did ask for help since I had never started a
horse by myself, although I have ridden 30 years). Anyway, they tried
'muscling' my young Fjord like they would other horses (breeds with more
flight than fight reactions), all they got was an uncooperative Fjord.
The horse learned nothing except resistance, and they said -the filly-
had an attitude problem! I might take longer to teach it, but the horse
knows I don't fight (where the horse could win a fight) and I don't quit
until the horse makes my idea their choice. I have a willing partner
when I am done, the horse learns new stuff easier, I don't get in fights
so I don't get scared or hurt by my horses and I am very careful not to
abuse or misuse the trust my horses have given me. I for one LOVE this
Fjord character especially when combined with Natural Horsemanship
methods.
 I am sure this particular Fjord character of will influences some
of the other breed character that make the Fjord so endearing, but I
have been too wordy already.

Sue Banks, Virginia, USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]