This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been happily lurking and reading the digest form, which fits better into my jam-packed lifestyle. The discussions about treats causing bad behavior, and the handler being mobbed, etc. disturbs me. it's not the treats, but the lack of discipline that cause bad behavior. Horses function fine (like kids) when they know what the limits are. When they are allowed to keep pushing the boundaries and the human says "Oh, well, they can do it this time. . .": that's when the trouble starts. What I do (and your comfort level might dictate different rules) is I feed treats at two times only. One is first thing in the morning when I go out to say hello, I give hand-offered apples dispensed out of my pockets, and believe me they wait politely and don't push, shove or jostle. If they did that would be the end of treats for the day. When I am in the pasture with a bunch of competing horses, and the treats are all gone, I hold up my hands (like a holdup) and say in a stern voice "No More!" They immediately stop asking, because that's the end and they know it. The other time I feed treats is when the horses have been untacked after riding or driving and are in their individual stalls, and I give a half an apple each. So they know what to expect and what they are allowed, and when they have gotten their exact number of pieces. I learned this principal from a woman I met at a driving clinic, who was handling and harnessing a pair of homebred Shires, by herself. I asked how they were so well behaved and how she had managed to handle a breeding stallion by herself. She said she would take him out of the stall and say "Now take baby steps," and that huge stallion would take little mincing steps, because he knew if he misbehaved at all, he got put back in the stall and didn't get to breed the mare that day. Discipline is good. It saves them from themselves. You don't want to let a 1200 lb. horse get the idea he/she can push you around. The result of no discipline, is a horse that cannot find a long-term home, and will end up at the slaughterhouse. So in the long run discipline is preferable to spoiling. Sorry I went on so long but I would like to see your Fjords rewarded occasionally, and you can do it without producing a behavior problem. Alex Wind Harmony Springs Farm Shawsville, VA, where it is misty and cool and the leaves are turning.