Re: Video Evaluations
This message is from: "bushnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The video evaluation idea has a certain allure for helping to deal with the realities of our geography. However, I think it is hard to get a true picture of a horse from a video. Lori>> I JUST DID a quick search on horse evaluation DVD's and found a surprising large amount of related videos and DVD's out there.. it appears that horsy DVD's are already successfully done at a tidy profit. If it can be said that there is an element of favorable enhancement in filmed horses, per your quote, it would fairly be an equally distributed advantage for all. It comes down to the issue of serving the entire membership, or singly catering to a privileged minority who have surplus time and money in which to indulge their elitist preferences. It is asking ourselves which avenue of evaluating would most benefit the MOST Fjord horses. Remember the "seven last words" of a dying organization, "we've never done it that way before." Ruthie, nw mt us
Re: Video Evaluations
This message is from: CHERYL GARNICA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> RE: Video eval: Certain aspects sound attractive. Lori made some good points. In person, could be the best or worst 15 minutes of your life showing your horse. If video, might turn into a bigtime screen production with airbrushing, retakes, big time editing. Probably either way may not be true picture of horse on daily basis, yet harder to hide faults in person I would think. Saw part of the Fallbrook evals. It was great to meet owners, see all the different fjords in person and watch the process. Also a nice way to introduce fjords to newbies...wouldn't that be missed if judging process went Hollywood??Might consider eval down the road for my (backyard!) gelding just for fun, but would want it in person with everyone's encouragement for our presentation jitters. Cheryl in S. Cal --- Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: Lori Albrough > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > The video evaluation idea has a certain allure for > helping to deal with > the realities of our geography. However, I think it > is hard to get a > true picture of a horse from a video. I will use > videos to help me > decide whether I want to go see a horse, but rarely > to make a final > decision on it, unless a trusted advisor of mine has > also seen the horse > in person. > > Steven Wolgemuth, US long-listed dressage rider, who > now helps people > find dressage horses domestically and overseas, had > this to say about > evaluating a horse from a video in a recent article > in Dressge Today > magazine: > > "Be careful not to judge a horse too harshly when > trying to evaluate his > overall quality. Videos can be the enemy of great > horses and a friend to > poor-quality horses. They can make great horses look > just a bit better > than average and bad horses look just a bit worse > than average." > > Before I read this article, I had already noticed > this "averagizing" > effect of the technology, both in making a great one > appear more average > and a not-so-good one appear OK, so it was > interesting to have this > observation confirmed. > > The other thing that video can do is make a "moment" > appear to sum up a > horse. The video viewer is missing a lot of context, > but can only judge > what he is seeing, whether or not it is an accurate > reflection of the > true animal. As Wolgemuth says, > > "A videotape can make a good or bad moment more real > than it truly is. > ... A horses unfortunate mistake, wrong step or > brilliant moment is not > a trusted normality, even if a video captured it." > > Wolgemuth uses this anecdote to illustrate how much > presentation can > influence perception of the horse, > > "I recently reviewed a video of a beautiful, > refined, light bay gelding > with long legs and light, lovely, sweeping gaits. He > was being ridden in > white polo wraps on a sunny day in perfect footing > in a beautiful > outdoor arena. Moments later, the tape switched to a > dark brown, chubby, > short-legged, average-moving horse. To my surprise, > it turned out to be > the same horse. The second part of the tape was > filmed under poor > lighting in deeper, wet footing and the horse had no > leg wraps. The > difference was incredible. I was again reminded how > the camera can > radically distort reality." > > My experience is that "being there" allows the > person who is evaluating > the horse to form a much more balanced and realistic > picture of the true > animal. I already believe that there is no way that > "15 minutes on the > triangle" can sum up the value of a horse, but can > only give us one more > data-point about him. I would certainly not give > even that much credence > to an evaluation that was purely virtual. The > free-lunging vs in-hand > gait analysis definitely presents another important > viewpoint, though > live-in-person would be my preference. (The > free-lunging was one of my > favorite /most-useful-to-me parts of the Norwegian > stallion evaluation) > Is a virtual evaluation better than nothing? > Probably as an educational > tool, yes, but let's not make it into something more > than it can ever be. > > Lori Albrough > Moorefield Ontario
Re: Video Evaluations
This message is from: "Vanessa N Weber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Lori, Thank you for this. I know little about evaluating horses, but I know from having bred dogs for 20 years, how different a dog can look in a photo or video, from how it can look and feel in person. Many years ago I bought a video converter, capable of playing and recording tapes into all the worldwide formats available. At the time I was doing a lot of importing. Despite the technology I was very dissapointed with some of the dogs I received that had great looking videos. In France, there is a process of confirmation (not conformation), whereby a dog is evaluated at a certain age or beyond by three judges who submit their reports. Perhaps a questionnaire submitted by three different judges who are recognized by the AHSA or some similar organization, along with a video could do the trick. The questionnaire could be geared toward basic type and movement issues that would circumvent problems of people not very familiar with the breed. Hard to say, but as I said before, I'm not a horse judge. I received my judging license in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels about a year ago so I am perhaps a bit familiar with the process of judging, but certainly not in Fjords per se. Vanessa N Weber Kenjockety Spaniels (new owner of 5 Fjords) ---Original Message--- From: Lori Albrough Date: 02/03/06 11:01:56 To: Fjord Horse Mailing List Subject: Video Evaluations This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The video evaluation idea has a certain allure for helping to deal with the realities of our geography. However, I think it is hard to get a true picture of a horse from a video. I will use videos to help me decide whether I want to go see a horse, but rarely to make a final decision on it, unless a trusted advisor of mine has also seen the horse in person. Steven Wolgemuth, US long-listed dressage rider, who now helps people find dressage horses domestically and overseas, had this to say about evaluating a horse from a video in a recent article in Dressge Today magazine: "Be careful not to judge a horse too harshly when trying to evaluate his overall quality. Videos can be the enemy of great horses and a friend to poor-quality horses. They can make great horses look just a bit better than average and bad horses look just a bit worse than average." Before I read this article, I had already noticed this "averagizing" effect of the technology, both in making a great one appear more average and a not-so-good one appear OK, so it was interesting to have this observation confirmed. The other thing that video can do is make a "moment" appear to sum up a horse. The video viewer is missing a lot of context, but can only judge what he is seeing, whether or not it is an accurate reflection of the true animal. As Wolgemuth says, "A videotape can make a good or bad moment more real than it truly is. A horses unfortunate mistake, wrong step or brilliant moment is not a trusted normality, even if a video captured it." Wolgemuth uses this anecdote to illustrate how much presentation can influence perception of the horse, "I recently reviewed a video of a beautiful, refined, light bay gelding with long legs and light, lovely, sweeping gaits. He was being ridden in white polo wraps on a sunny day in perfect footing in a beautiful outdoor arena. Moments later, the tape switched to a dark brown, chubby, short-legged, average-moving horse. To my surprise, it turned out to be the same horse. The second part of the tape was filmed under poor lighting in deeper, wet footing and the horse had no leg wraps. The difference was incredible. I was again reminded how the camera can radically distort reality." My experience is that "being there" allows the person who is evaluating the horse to form a much more balanced and realistic picture of the true animal. I already believe that there is no way that "15 minutes on the triangle" can sum up the value of a horse, but can only give us one more data-point about him. I would certainly not give even that much credence to an evaluation that was purely virtual. The free-lunging vs in-hand gait analysis definitely presents another important viewpoint, though live-in-person would be my preference. (The free-lunging was one of my favorite /most-useful-to-me parts of the Norwegian stallion evaluation) Is a virtual evaluation better than nothing? Probably as an educational tool, yes, but let's not make it into something more than it can ever be. Lori Albrough Moorefield Ontario - - Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2006 Internet Security: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://127.0.0 1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1&SPAM=true - -
Video Evaluations
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The video evaluation idea has a certain allure for helping to deal with the realities of our geography. However, I think it is hard to get a true picture of a horse from a video. I will use videos to help me decide whether I want to go see a horse, but rarely to make a final decision on it, unless a trusted advisor of mine has also seen the horse in person. Steven Wolgemuth, US long-listed dressage rider, who now helps people find dressage horses domestically and overseas, had this to say about evaluating a horse from a video in a recent article in Dressge Today magazine: "Be careful not to judge a horse too harshly when trying to evaluate his overall quality. Videos can be the enemy of great horses and a friend to poor-quality horses. They can make great horses look just a bit better than average and bad horses look just a bit worse than average." Before I read this article, I had already noticed this "averagizing" effect of the technology, both in making a great one appear more average and a not-so-good one appear OK, so it was interesting to have this observation confirmed. The other thing that video can do is make a "moment" appear to sum up a horse. The video viewer is missing a lot of context, but can only judge what he is seeing, whether or not it is an accurate reflection of the true animal. As Wolgemuth says, "A videotape can make a good or bad moment more real than it truly is. ... A horse’s unfortunate mistake, wrong step or brilliant moment is not a trusted normality, even if a video captured it." Wolgemuth uses this anecdote to illustrate how much presentation can influence perception of the horse, "I recently reviewed a video of a beautiful, refined, light bay gelding with long legs and light, lovely, sweeping gaits. He was being ridden in white polo wraps on a sunny day in perfect footing in a beautiful outdoor arena. Moments later, the tape switched to a dark brown, chubby, short-legged, average-moving horse. To my surprise, it turned out to be the same horse. The second part of the tape was filmed under poor lighting in deeper, wet footing and the horse had no leg wraps. The difference was incredible. I was again reminded how the camera can radically distort reality." My experience is that "being there" allows the person who is evaluating the horse to form a much more balanced and realistic picture of the true animal. I already believe that there is no way that "15 minutes on the triangle" can sum up the value of a horse, but can only give us one more data-point about him. I would certainly not give even that much credence to an evaluation that was purely virtual. The free-lunging vs in-hand gait analysis definitely presents another important viewpoint, though live-in-person would be my preference. (The free-lunging was one of my favorite /most-useful-to-me parts of the Norwegian stallion evaluation) Is a virtual evaluation better than nothing? Probably as an educational tool, yes, but let's not make it into something more than it can ever be. Lori Albrough Moorefield Ontario
Re: DVD/Video Evaluations
This message is from: Snowy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Another vote in total support of Video Evaluations, from southern B.C Snowy Mountain Fjords Lauren Sellars [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I really likethe idea of video/DVD evaluations. It levels the playing field. It is expensive to get to the evaluations. I have a friend who brought a young Rocky Mountain Horse. She had to make video of her horse after she got her trained, that showed the horse being saddled, mounted and ridden at all gaits. Alison Bakken in sunny Alberta where winter hasn't arrived
Re: DVD/Video Evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I really likethe idea of video/DVD evaluations. It levels the playing field. It is expensive to get to the evaluations. I have a friend who brought a young Rocky Mountain Horse. She had to make video of her horse after she got her trained, that showed the horse being saddled, mounted and ridden at all gaits. Alison Bakken in sunny Alberta where winter hasn't arrived
Re: DVD/Video Evaluations
This message is from: "Olivia Farm, Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everyone from Olivia Farm, Personally, we like the idea of DVD/Video evaluations. And we like even more the idea of adding free longeing to the evaluations. We have been talking for quite a while about the fact that our evaluators are pretty efficient at judging conformation and the movement they are shown, but that so often they are not shown the full potential of the horses movement. Free longeing would definitely help that out. But there are a few concerns. What happens when the person doing the free longeing doesn't know how to get the horse really moving? I have watched many a sales video, even ones made by good horse people, that never show the true potential of the horse. In a live evaluation this wouldn't be a problem, the evaluator would just ask for more trot or whatever, but by video they wouldn't have that option. What if the person on the video couldn't set the horse up properly? The evaluators couldn't ask for the horse to be repositioned, and you end up with bigger scoring problems than before. I'm not saying that we shouldn't consider it as an option. The more horses evaluated, the better feel we have for individual horses, bloodlines, and the breed as a whole. We are all for having more horses evaluated. However, we have to take into consideration that the problems with handling horses (one of the biggest issues in getting the fairest evaluation possible) wouldn't go away by allowing for video evaluations. On another point - I have been a sheep and livestock judge for some years now, and I'm here to tell you that just because the identity is kept "secret" or the handler changes doesn't mean the judge or evaluator doesn't know where the animal came from. You are never going to get around that issue. You just have to hope that the evaluators are being as impartial as they can be. Just some more food for thought, Solveig Watanabe Olivia Farm (509) 258-7348 www.oliviafarm.com
Re: DVD/Video Evaluations
This message is from: "Olivia Farm, Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everyone from Olivia Farm, Personally, we like the idea of DVD/Video evaluations. And we like even more the idea of adding free longeing to the evaluations. We have been talking for quite a while about the fact that our evaluators are pretty efficient at judging conformation and the movement they are shown, but that so often they are not shown the full potential of the horses movement. Free longeing would definitely help that out. But there are a few concerns. What happens when the person doing the free longeing doesn't know how to get the horse really moving? I have watched many a sales video, even ones made by good horse people, that never show the true potential of the horse. In a live evaluation this wouldn't be a problem, the evaluator would just ask for more trot or whatever, but by video they wouldn't have that option. What if the person on the video couldn't set the horse up properly? The evaluators couldn't ask for the horse to be repositioned, and you end up with bigger scoring problems than before. I'm not saying that we shouldn't consider it as an option. The more horses evaluated, the better feel we have for individual horses, bloodlines, and the breed as a whole. We are all for having more horses evaluated. However, we have to take into consideration that the problems with handling horses (one of the biggest issues in getting the fairest evaluation possible) wouldn't go away by allowing for video evaluations. On another point - I have been a sheep and livestock judge for some years now, and I'm here to tell you that just because the identity is kept "secret" or the handler changes doesn't mean the judge or evaluator doesn't know where the animal came from. You are never going to get around that issue. You just have to hope that the evaluators are being as impartial as they can be. Just some more food for thought, Solveig Watanabe Olivia Farm (509) 258-7348 www.oliviafarm.com
