Re: Weaning, pain relief after operation

2001-10-12 Thread Epona1971
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi Sini-

Great post. I'm printing it for my files! It's great to hear that studies are 
being done (a la Dr. Strasser) to determine the natural way horses live in 
the wild, and ought to be raised in captivity. 

Brigid M Wasson 
San Francisco Bay Area, CA 
 A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A
A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A
   / )__~  
/L /L  





Re: Weaning, pain relief after operation

2001-10-12 Thread Jean Gayle
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jean your snow has begun and our rain has started after a long drought.  Our
dams are mere trickles.  I think we might be a bit happier than you about
the six months snow




Jean Walters Gayle
[Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter
Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ]
http://users.techline.com/jgayle
Send $20
PO Box 104
Montesano, Wa 98563





Re: Weaning, pain relief after operation

2001-10-12 Thread Jean Ernest
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 A foal stays with her dam
for at least one, often two or three years. Even if the dam has a new
foal, the previous one usually stays around and sometimes even keeps
suckling...snip.. 

Weaning earlier than what is natural is common and the
consequencessnip..  One of
the mildest form is that the horse will fear being away from other
horses for work (he knows from experience his buddies may disappear like
happened back then when he was weaned although he was not ready to be on
his own),

Maybe this is why my big gelding Bjorken will happily go off alone on a
ride with me, with no apparent concern about leaving the others..He wasn't
weaned until 14 months old and then only separated by a fence from his mom.  

Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska where we had our first snow that stuck yesterday
and winter has begun. we won't see the bare ground again for 6 months!



Jean Ernest
Fairbanks, Alaska
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]





Re: Weaning, pain

2001-10-12 Thread Carol J. Makosky
This message is from: Carol J. Makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]

sini seppala wrote:

 This message is from: sini seppala [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I should have written They are usually still mentally childish until
 they're five or six *years* old, even
 older.
 thanks
 Sini.

Hi,
Your long post was very interesting and I appreciate all that you have to
contribute.  Keep it up.

--
Built FJORD tough
Carol M.
On Golden Pond
Northern Wisconsin





Weaning, pain relief after operation

2001-10-12 Thread sini seppala
This message is from: sini seppala [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 In nature, when are horses weaned? 
Several persons have studied wild and semi-wild herds in North America
and Europe (camargues and przewalskis in semi-wild circumstances or
after being returned to nature in Mongolia). A foal stays with her dam
for at least one, often two or three years. Even if the dam has a new
foal, the previous one usually stays around and sometimes even keeps
suckling. 

Weaning earlier than what is natural is common and the consequences may
not show until later. One of the risks is causing the foal a permanent,
basic feeling of insecurity and mistrust towards people. This is
expressed in various outlets that are called problems or vices. One of
the mildest form is that the horse will fear being away from other
horses for work (he knows from experience his buddies may disappear like
happened back then when he was weaned although he was not ready to be on
hiw own), which may lead to his being reluctant to get caught and go to
work. He generally trusts people's intentions very little and is not
able to concentrate properly. 

However, horses are often incredibly flexible and may eventually learn
to live with this kind of traumas just as we humans learn to live with
them: we automatically tie our horses as they might otherwise run back
to their herd, we always stay alert as it's never completely secure to
ride or drive a horse who'd rather be back home checking on his friends
at least if something scares him. Or we buy severe bits to make sure
we'll be able to control him as we know he will not trust us enough to
stay there and wait for us to solve the problem, when something scary
happens. 

If weaned early, many find the best way is to do it gradually,
individually and over a period of months. If the foal still has access
to his dam (but may not be able to suckle) and both know where the other
is at all times, and both have other friends around and something nice
and relaxing to do, it may go well even if the foal is young. However,
they are usually still mentally childish until they're five or six, even
older. 

As for gelding colts: please make sure he's given proper medication for
pain for days after the operation. As horses are prey animals they don't
show their pain - if they acted any different from the rest of the herd,
they would draw the predator's attention. Horses don't scream like many
other animals in pain and they don't even limp until they have no other
choice. 
 
Quite the contrary, as also the British vet Sara Wyche says in September
issue of Horse  Rider, Amazing though it may sound, horses can pull
some incredible feats of agility out of the bag when it matters most -
and sometimes in spite of underlying problems, which could render them
lame. Superficially, the horse's instinct is to put on a convincing show
of soundness, because it's all part of his survival code - lame horses
attract predators. 

When a horse finally starts limping or refuses to move under pressure
due to pain, he's most likely been in pain for a long time. This has
also been proved through blood testing, looking for for example stress
hormones that indicate pain. 

Horses' sense of pain is very well developed: the ones that didn't care
about the predator's claws on their skin lost their lives and
disappeared from the chain of evolution. The most sensitive lived and
passed their sensitive genes on to their offspring. If you think about
how you feel after an operation - the horse will feel at least as much pain.

Sorry this is so long..
Best wishes
Sini.