Contracted tendons
This message is from: "Nancy Hotovy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mark - First, let me tell you I am NOT a vet but have worked at a large vet clinic for 15 years. Steve White could probably better address your problems but my opinion on waiting vs. not waiting for treatment is to use the advice of a veterinarian you trust. If you're not convinced go for a second opinion. Some vets are too eager to do surgery but I've seen many people want to wait it out and the outcome isn't so good. Sure, some horses come around with time and exercise but what if it doesn't? Now you've waited and the prognosis isn't as good as it was previously. I've also had a couple foals with contracted tendons. Have always either splinted the legs or gone with tetracycline injections right away and by the time they are a couple weeks old, everything is fine. I've seen many surgeries involving contracted tendons and the foals really do well. I would rather let a foal have surgery that will fix the problem than to wait and see and possibly have a horse with a permanent problem. This is just my opinion that I have formed after watching both scenarios. I always laugh at the vets - I'm the bookkeeper and in my job the answers are very definite. A vet on the other hand has to use his education and experience to make the best decision. (I like definite answers best). Good luck with your foal. Just wanted to let you know that tendon surgery is a fairly common surgery and maybe ease some of your fears. Nancy The Upper Forty
Re: Contracted Tendons
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just in from a terrific trip to England, Belgium, and Germany. Queen Elizabeth 2 is out of this world as a way to get there without jet lag. Going over 425 emails, one third ads. My very large Trakehner, Charley, was so large at birth that the Vet and I had to pull on him at contractions to clear the shoulders. The Vet could not lift him. Charley had "windswept" right legs as he was too large for the maiden mare's womb and he was down on his hind hooves and walking on his pasterns. Looked like a baby giraffe. The Vet bound his hind pasterns to keep them from being bruised and after about two weeks he was fine. The right legs corrected in short order and he went on to win in dressage to third level until he broke a small piece of bone in his hock at nine years of age. Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
RE: Contracted Tendons
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Odin's problem may have been different. Perhaps an early, correctable, "club foot" which may be a completely different kind of contraction than the ones we have been discussing? I now remember someone pointing out that he could end up with a club foot. (he has not...his feet are fine at three years old). >Gail: This has not been my experience. My experience is after about a >week or two the colts are running around on their own with no problems. >No special shoes or trimming nesicary. >Mark. >It seems odd to me that the symptom of his contraction was relatively >mild, >but it took a long time and considerable maintenance to correct it. >Gail Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Contracted Tendons
This message is from: "Skeels, Mark A (MED)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gail: This has not been my experience. My experience is after about a week or two the colts are running around on their own with no problems. No special shoes or trimming nesicary. When born they can't stand on their toes, their feet are folded over and they are standing and walking on their first knuckel. The tendeons are indeed tight. We gave the drug to the first one that was born that had this problem. The next one we just put in splints. The same with this one. I took the splints off today, it has been 3 days, I may put them back on tomorrow for 3 more days if he isn't walking on his toes very well tomorrow. Mark. -Original Message- From: GAIL RUSSELL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:45 AM To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Contracted Tendons This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have a question about contracted tendons. Odin was huge, when born to a young, maiden mare. (Vet said of the mare, "If she can birth this guy as a maiden mare, she can give birth to a Jeep!") We noticed nothing odd when he was born (though it might have been therebut subtle). However, after a while (weeks, days, I cannot remember) we realized that he was standing on tiptoe. The vet came and glued on a shoe that would prevent him from wearing down his toesand that would, in turn, force the tendons to stretch. This was a foal who had plenty of exercise...but it quite a while, including a reapplication of a shoe and trimming every three to four weeks to maintain the correct foot angle that would allow the tendon to lengthen. Was this the same as the severely contracted tendons others have spoken of? It seems odd to me that the symptom of his contraction was relatively mild, but it took a long time and considerable maintenance to correct it. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Contracted Tendons
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have a question about contracted tendons. Odin was huge, when born to a young, maiden mare. (Vet said of the mare, "If she can birth this guy as a maiden mare, she can give birth to a Jeep!") We noticed nothing odd when he was born (though it might have been therebut subtle). However, after a while (weeks, days, I cannot remember) we realized that he was standing on tiptoe. The vet came and glued on a shoe that would prevent him from wearing down his toesand that would, in turn, force the tendons to stretch. This was a foal who had plenty of exercise...but it quite a while, including a reapplication of a shoe and trimming every three to four weeks to maintain the correct foot angle that would allow the tendon to lengthen. Was this the same as the severely contracted tendons others have spoken of? It seems odd to me that the symptom of his contraction was relatively mild, but it took a long time and considerable maintenance to correct it. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Contracted Tendons
This message is from: "Arthur Rivoire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good Morning from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - On the subject of contracted tendons, we've had a few over the years. Out of 65 foals (I think), we might have had six. We've also had a few angular limb deformities. This sounds terrible, but what it means is a foal who comes out with legs that aren't (as yet) correct. In the beginning, we worried extensively about this, and of course, it is something to take seriously. However, I think we were lucky to always have veterinarians with common sense who weren't in a hurry to to anything. -- I remember the first case of contracted tendons. It was BDF Draum, by BDF Torolf, out of the Dutch mare, Uloza. Draum was really huge and all knuckled over, although he could walk. We immediately called the vet who said he'd seen lots like that particularly in big foals. He advised us to do nothing other than turn the colt out in a big area. He also suggested that we take a photo each day and later compare the progress. Draum's tendons loosened, and within a few days he was normal. BDF Jubilee Canada by Gjest out of the Dutch mare, Maryke, was the worst one we'd ever seen. He was so knuckled over at birth he was walking on his knees. He was born outside, and we had to carry him into the stall. But again, within a day he was much much better, and within three or four days he was normal. With Jubilee, because he couldn't be turned out, we started Physical Therapy to help him straighten. With the foal lying in the straw, we took hold of the foot with the left hand on top of the fetlock, and the right under the hoof. Then with downward pressure on top with the left hand, and a pulling stretching action from underneath with the right hand, we "loosened" or stretched the tendon. --- This seemed to us to help a whole lot, so it's what we do now if necessary. --- A couple of years ago, BDF Remco (Gjest x Stine), was born with just one foot knuckled over. Again, the pulling stretching therapy, and within two days there was noticeable improvement, and within five days, he was normal. We've had foals that have been knock-kneed, and ones whose hind legs were rather splayed out. In all case, a lot of exercise has done the trick, and within a few days the babies were strong and correct. --- In the case of knock-knees, it takes quite a bit longer -- several months, in fact. But, in all cases with our horses, turnout in big big pastures with hills has resulted in strong, straight horses. We've thought of splints, but been disuaded by our vets in favor of plain old exercise which has always worked for us. Best Regards, Carol Rivoire http://www.beaverdamfarm.com Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet, Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 Tel:(902) 386-2304 Fax:(902) 386-2149 Carole Rivoire, author of THE FJORDHORSE HANDBOOK, only book in English on the Fjord breed, available from Beaver Dam Farm, $36.95 US includes P&H http://www.beaverdamfarm.com/book.htm
contracted tendons
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Any ideas, also how common is this? Thanks for any ideas: Mark and Sandra Skeels Lord's Farm Fjords Mark, out of 15+ foals, only one I have bred had contracted tendons. Really, really badly contracted, to the point he was on his knees. He was a large colt, and it was the smallish dams first foal, She was fed 3/4 grass & 1/4 alfalfa hay & rec'd a mineral supplement. The vet suggested we surgiclly intervene to correct the problem, but we thought that was a bit too drastic, so consulted w/ a homeopathic vet, and another local (conventional) vet, and we splinted the foal, and did passive massage with ruta gravolens and arnica montana 3-4 x daily (basiclly when he was down for the count sleeping), for about 1.5 weeks, and he came out of it w/ flying colours and perfectly straight legs. We spent a small fortune on bandaging cotton, gauze and vetwrap, but that was a drop in the bucket to what a surgery would have run us, and I am not convinced that it would not have had complications. This colt is now a strong and healthy gelding named Rocky Hill Arne, and is part of a pair of driving fjords owned by Pat & Dave Schumaker in California. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: BDF STALLIONS & FOALS BORN WITH CONTRACTED TENDONS NOT ALWAYS SERIOUS
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I wonder if the contraction is more often found in maiden mares with large foals? My Charley's dam was 15.2 and maiden. He about killed her getting the shoulders through and two of us had to pull as she contracted. He was huge and matured at 17.2 1/2 (Trakehner...not Fjord..gasp) He walked on his back pasterns for a week despite "splints" put on by a cow vet. He was also "windswept" as her uterus was too small. His right legs actually curved to the right outside. Yet he straightened out to achieve third level dressage before injuring himself. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes & Noble Book Stores
Re: BDF STALLIONS & FOALS BORN WITH CONTRACTED TENDONS NOT ALWAYS SERIOUS
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - >From: misha nogha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Carole's new kids > >This message is from: misha nogha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Congrats Carole. Nice to hear you got another full brother to King and >Obelisk. Of the two I really took to Obelisk and think he is a dandy >stallion. Oby has a certain something I really like. You have produced some >good ones!!! Thanks, Misha, for your kind words about BDF Kanada King and BDF Obelisk. Of course, you have the right to prefer one of the brothers over the other, but I did want to point out that IF that preference has to do with behavior, and I would suppose it does, but then again, maybe not (you can tell me that), what I'd like to point out is that we sold BDF Kanada King as a six month old to a woman without a lot of horse experience. He was a perfectly nice baby when he left here, and I feel that maybe things could have been done differently with him resulting in a much happier horse, a calmer horse. An exellent example is BDF Obelisk, owned by Starfire Farm. Beth and Sandy bought Obey when he was 1 1/2 years old. We'd always kept him with a young gelding. The two of them played constantly, thus Obey was never a frustrated young stallion living alone. We advised Beth to continue these arrangements when she got Obey to Colorado, which she has done. We'd also handled and trained Obey a lot. He was ground-driving quietly in harness when he left here, and was a pleasant, contented young stallion. Beth is an expert horsewoman. She knows how to train and how to command respect, while at the same time maintaining a good relationship with her horses. We're absolutely delighted that our top notch stallion is in the care of Beth and Sandy at Starfire Farm. We honestly couldn't wish for more. Obey lives out all the time in the company of geldings. Unless you present him to a mare, you wouldn't guess he was a stallion, unless of course, you spot him in the group and say, "Wowee!!! That Fjord most certainly is a breeding stallion. He's awesome!!!" I have to tell you that almost all of the offspring from our stallion, GJEST, and the beautiful mare, STINE, have been outstanding examples of the breed. As to the sons, all but one have been incredibly good. The one that wasn't quite as good was still an unusually beautiful and well conformed Fjordhorse. He simply didn't possess that "extra something" you need for a breeding stallion. So, while you're certainly entitled to your preferences, I just want to say that all three of Stine and Gjest's sons that are breeding today are equally fine and impressive examples of the breed - BDF KANADA KING, BDF MALCOM LOCK & BDF OBELISK. They all share the same blood, which has been proven over and over to produce the highest quality to be found anywhere. If one of them has shown less than ideal deportment, then it's likesly to be caused by environment rather than genetics. --- At Beaver Dam Farm, we've learned over the years never to keep a young stallion by himself. They need companions the same as all the other horses. We sold BDF MALCOLM LOCKE to Nancy Roemer in Ohio, and he's produced many beautiful Fjords already at a young age. Malcolm left us as a 2 yr. old, and was already driving having had a lot of attention from our driving trainer. Malcolm is outstandingly beautiful, a good breeding stallion, and a pleasant using horse. Nancy is another experienced horsewoman who has also done a great job with one of our stallions. We're just as pleased that Malcolm Locke is with Nancy Roemer as we are that Obey is with Beth and Sandy. It's owners like these that make everything worthwhile. > >(By the way Carole, nice of you to point out that big babies sometimes are >born contracted and usually come out of it. Very kind and honest!) > >Misha Thanks again, Misha. You're right that big foals often are born contracted. It's happened maybe six times with us over the years out of over sixty foals born, and as I think about it, all of them were colts, and all big ones. I was pretty upset the first time it happened, but a wise old vet in N.H. said the colt would straighten out quickly. He advised me to take a Polaroid photo of the colt's legs each day to see the difference. I didn't do that, but they quickly righted themselves. One year, we had a colt born in the field, BDF JUBILEE CANADA (Gjest x Maryke). This one was REALLY knuckled over. He wasn't walking on his fetlocks, he was walking on his knees. In fact, we had to carry him in from the pasture, and hold him up for nursing. However, we started the physical therapy on him right away, and by the third day, the tendons released to a marked degree, and he was on his way to being perfect. So, that's why I don't get excited anymore about this. However, one thing I want to caution everybody about if this hap
Re: Contracted tendons and buttercup
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Trust your horses to be smart enough to >know what to eat - watch what they really DO eat - and act accordingly. > It can save a lot of work. Now that's back to basics! I like it. And thanks, all, for the good information. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Contracted tendons and buttercup
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> No, the two are not related. However, I wish to respond to both subjects. Regarding contracted tendons on foals: We had this happen to our first two foals (both from the same mare and stallion). The first foal (a colt) our vet used leg splints on. The foal was very accomplished at romping in them - they didn't slow him down a bit. He grew up to be a fine horse with straight legs. The second foal (a filly) was a bit less contracted, so we used "physical therapy" on her - the same as is used to stretch human tendons. Two or three times a day we stretched her legs - hold the toe in one hand and gently stretch the knee backwards with your other hand. Just a few stretches per leg each time. Her legs straightened out in about a week and she is also a fine mare with straight legs. We began to wonder why this mare was giving us foals with contracted tendons. Our vet had read a paper which suggested that giving the mare too much supplement during gestation might be part of the problem. So we cut out the "Mare Plus" supplement and just used a regular supplement meant for all horses (and at the rate for regular horses) the next time. Result: Same mare and stallion, no contracted tendons. We have not had any foals with contracted tendons since then. The mare goes back on Mare Plus or Mare and Foal supplements as soon as she foals. Regarding buttercup: Here in the Pacific Northwest we have buttercup of every kind everywhere! To eradicate it would be a joke! Our horses do not eat it - or only eat a bite here and there - and we have never had any problems with it. It will be reduced in your pastures if you keep it mowed - it does not like to be mowed we have found. Other than that we leave it alone, and so do our horses. There are some things even Fjords are generally too smart to eat. Even our horses in pens with no grass leave it alone. There are large clumps growing within easy reach and they never bother it. I assume our Fjords are not just smarter than other Fjords. Trust your horses to be smart enough to know what to eat - watch what they really DO eat - and act accordingly. It can save a lot of work. Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
contracted tendons
This message is from: Karen McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Julie, I had a colt that was born with contracted tendons, like the ones you described: so severe he could not nurse w/out assistance. He was the first foal for a very small mare, by our stallion who is 14.hh and has never "produced" a foal with this problem. Our vet was really gung - ho about doing some kind of surgery on him, which we immediatly ruled out (thank goodness) as being the idea of a surgical zealot. Instead we did some quick research on homeopathic and passive massage remedies, as we had a very good homeopathic learning center and pharmacy close by in Sacramento. They reccomended a combination of Ruta gravolens (Rue) and Arnica tinctures (mixed into a base of lubricating jelly),massaged into the affected areas, and also taking a course of Arnica 30x internally. The little guys legs were also splinted for a week, using custom made PVC splints and loads of sheet cotton and a small fortune in vet wrap. Twice a day we unwrapped him and did the passive (gentle) massage foe 1/2hr or so, and then re-splinted him. During all this intensive treatment, this colt was undeterred from galloping about with his sister, rearing on his hindlegs and "peddaling" with his splinted legs. The outcome: this horse has grown up with tree trunks for legs that you could hold a plumb bob up to. Arnie was even named after one of the ingredients from his cure, Arnica. And our vet? He was amazed! Karen ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
