Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

Meinte, AS3 allows prototyping as far as I know.

On 8/31/06, Meinte van't Kruis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'm not sure prototyping can be done in as 3.0 since it does introduce
sealed classes and such and is pretty strict oop as far as i can tell. But
perhaps I've overlooked something, it would definetely be a nice thing,
I like prototyping as well.

-Meinte

On 8/30/06, Kevin Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I really like OOP, like Javascript style prototyping and look forward to
> use a combination of both in AS3. Having said that, I really was not
> impressed with AS2.0, mostly because of some of it's bugs that made it
> work in odd ways (mostly related to scoping issues, which are only
> partially solved with the Delegate Class).
>
> So for me I usually prefer either AS1.0, or (I imagine, since I haven't
> gotten around to it yet) AS 3.0.
>
> It's nice not to be locked into either OOP, or procedural, or typed or
> untyped. It seems like AS 3.0 will let me do the one I want to at the
> moment (without being buggy like AS 2.0). :-)
>
> Kevin N.
>
>
>
> James wrote:
> > I think that the mixture of prototype based and class based OOP is
> > really interesting. I think prototype based object orientated
> > languages (such as AS1.0 and JavaScript) are really pretty cool and
> > you can do amazing things with them.
> >
> > I read somewhere (sorry can't find link but it was on sitepoint.com
> > written by Harry Fuecks)  that one of the leading technical directors
> > at google had produced a patterns book with most of the important
> > patterns completely rewritten for prototype OO languages and many of
> > them were far simpler and much less code.
> >
> > of course there is always the trade off with any dynamic language -
> > the less errors can be caught at 'compile time' the more you have to
> > test the code using 'unit testing' at run time.
> >
> > I take any comments like 'AS2 is crap' or 'PHP is crap' or whatever
> > with a huge pinch of salt. Ask them 'Do you think people at
> > Macromedia/Adobe don't know what they're doing?' usually these people
> > have a computer science degree from Wolverhampton Poly or somesuch and
> > couldn't get a job at Adobe or Macromedia if they promised to work for
> > nothing and give foot massages to all the other developers whilst
> > compiling.
> >
> > James
> >
> > At 15:12 25/08/2006, you wrote:
> >> When it comes to OOP and Flash I think an individuals opinion comes
> from
> >> their knowledge of OOP. Those that have used it swear by it and vice
> >> versa.
> >> This is pretty much how it is with everything. I remember at the
> >> release of
> >> AS2 there were quite a few developers that I had interactions with
> >> that were
> >> saying that AS2 was crap and not to use it. I wonder how well that
> >> worked
> >> out for them :)
> >>
> >> - darren
>
>
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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Meinte van't Kruis]

I'm not sure prototyping can be done in as 3.0 since it does introduce
sealed classes and such and is pretty strict oop as far as i can tell. But
perhaps I've overlooked something, it would definetely be a nice thing,
I like prototyping as well.

-Meinte

On 8/30/06, Kevin Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I really like OOP, like Javascript style prototyping and look forward to
use a combination of both in AS3. Having said that, I really was not
impressed with AS2.0, mostly because of some of it's bugs that made it
work in odd ways (mostly related to scoping issues, which are only
partially solved with the Delegate Class).

So for me I usually prefer either AS1.0, or (I imagine, since I haven't
gotten around to it yet) AS 3.0.

It's nice not to be locked into either OOP, or procedural, or typed or
untyped. It seems like AS 3.0 will let me do the one I want to at the
moment (without being buggy like AS 2.0). :-)

Kevin N.



James wrote:
> I think that the mixture of prototype based and class based OOP is
> really interesting. I think prototype based object orientated
> languages (such as AS1.0 and JavaScript) are really pretty cool and
> you can do amazing things with them.
>
> I read somewhere (sorry can't find link but it was on sitepoint.com
> written by Harry Fuecks)  that one of the leading technical directors
> at google had produced a patterns book with most of the important
> patterns completely rewritten for prototype OO languages and many of
> them were far simpler and much less code.
>
> of course there is always the trade off with any dynamic language -
> the less errors can be caught at 'compile time' the more you have to
> test the code using 'unit testing' at run time.
>
> I take any comments like 'AS2 is crap' or 'PHP is crap' or whatever
> with a huge pinch of salt. Ask them 'Do you think people at
> Macromedia/Adobe don't know what they're doing?' usually these people
> have a computer science degree from Wolverhampton Poly or somesuch and
> couldn't get a job at Adobe or Macromedia if they promised to work for
> nothing and give foot massages to all the other developers whilst
> compiling.
>
> James
>
> At 15:12 25/08/2006, you wrote:
>> When it comes to OOP and Flash I think an individuals opinion comes
from
>> their knowledge of OOP. Those that have used it swear by it and vice
>> versa.
>> This is pretty much how it is with everything. I remember at the
>> release of
>> AS2 there were quite a few developers that I had interactions with
>> that were
>> saying that AS2 was crap and not to use it. I wonder how well that
>> worked
>> out for them :)
>>
>> - darren


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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Kevin Newman]

I really like OOP, like Javascript style prototyping and look forward to 
use a combination of both in AS3. Having said that, I really was not 
impressed with AS2.0, mostly because of some of it's bugs that made it 
work in odd ways (mostly related to scoping issues, which are only 
partially solved with the Delegate Class).


So for me I usually prefer either AS1.0, or (I imagine, since I haven't 
gotten around to it yet) AS 3.0.


It's nice not to be locked into either OOP, or procedural, or typed or 
untyped. It seems like AS 3.0 will let me do the one I want to at the 
moment (without being buggy like AS 2.0). :-)


Kevin N.



James wrote:
I think that the mixture of prototype based and class based OOP is 
really interesting. I think prototype based object orientated 
languages (such as AS1.0 and JavaScript) are really pretty cool and 
you can do amazing things with them.


I read somewhere (sorry can't find link but it was on sitepoint.com 
written by Harry Fuecks)  that one of the leading technical directors 
at google had produced a patterns book with most of the important 
patterns completely rewritten for prototype OO languages and many of 
them were far simpler and much less code.


of course there is always the trade off with any dynamic language - 
the less errors can be caught at 'compile time' the more you have to 
test the code using 'unit testing' at run time.


I take any comments like 'AS2 is crap' or 'PHP is crap' or whatever 
with a huge pinch of salt. Ask them 'Do you think people at 
Macromedia/Adobe don't know what they're doing?' usually these people 
have a computer science degree from Wolverhampton Poly or somesuch and 
couldn't get a job at Adobe or Macromedia if they promised to work for 
nothing and give foot massages to all the other developers whilst 
compiling.


James

At 15:12 25/08/2006, you wrote:

When it comes to OOP and Flash I think an individuals opinion comes from
their knowledge of OOP. Those that have used it swear by it and vice 
versa.
This is pretty much how it is with everything. I remember at the 
release of
AS2 there were quite a few developers that I had interactions with 
that were
saying that AS2 was crap and not to use it. I wonder how well that 
worked

out for them :)

- darren



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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Andreas Rønning]

As Neo said, don't sweat the OOP.

I honestly, truly, vividly believe that in 9 out of 10 approaches to an 
AS2 flash application, most if not all design patterns boil down to 
overengineering. Like you, i've spent so long pulling my hair out trying 
to factor design patterns into my actual application functionality to no 
avail, yet falling back to a generic event model and inventing and 
extending as i go tend to resolve my issues fairly well, with less 
obfuscated code (as long as i keep my typing strict) and in far less 
time, especially since i started using FlashDevelop. In terms of 
production, what truly, actually matters, is that your client receives a 
solution that is stable, reliable, user frieindly and help ssell their 
product somehow, be it a website, a kiosk app, a presentation tool, 
whatever. The quality of a product isn't dictated by its OOP structure.


I use OOP, and by OOP i mean inheritance and polymorphism, extensively 
to abstract problems down to a comfortable size. But do i feel less of a 
developer because i don't use MVC? Not by miles.


IMHO, design patterns apply to RIAs and development in large groups. 
They do not apply to making a mouse trailer that says "loading" and a 
slideshow you can solve with 3-4 short classes and no inheritance. In 
typical flash instances, all AS2 is is less anarchic AS1. It is not C++.


my $.2

- Andreas SJ
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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[James]

Cool. Thanks I'll check it out

James

At 15:55 25/08/2006, you wrote:


Well, haXe (http://haxe.org) has both class-based and "structural"
objects. You can describe types such as :

typedef Point = {
   var x : Int;
   var y : Int;
}

Then every object or class instance having "x" and "y" Int public fields
will be *automatically* of the type Point. Everything is strictly typed
thanks to type inference, and yet offer expressive power comparable to
dynamicly typed languages.

Nicolas
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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[James]

A quote attributed to 
Bjarne Stroustrup 
(designer of C++); “There are only two kinds of programming languages: 
those people always bitch about and those nobody uses.”…  


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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Nicolas Cannasse]

> I think that the mixture of prototype based and class based OOP is really 
> interesting. I think prototype based object orientated languages (such as 
> AS1.0 and JavaScript) are really pretty cool and you can do amazing things 
> with them.
> 
> I read somewhere (sorry can't find link but it was on sitepoint.com written 
> by Harry Fuecks)  that one of the leading technical directors at google had 
> produced a patterns book with most of the important patterns completely 
> rewritten for prototype OO languages and many of them were far simpler and 
> much less code.
> 
> of course there is always the trade off with any dynamic language - the 
> less errors can be caught at 'compile time' the more you have to test the 
> code using 'unit testing' at run time.

Well, haXe (http://haxe.org) has both class-based and "structural"
objects. You can describe types such as :

typedef Point = {
   var x : Int;
   var y : Int;
}

Then every object or class instance having "x" and "y" Int public fields
will be *automatically* of the type Point. Everything is strictly typed
thanks to type inference, and yet offer expressive power comparable to
dynamicly typed languages.

Nicolas
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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[James]

I think that the mixture of prototype based and class based OOP is really 
interesting. I think prototype based object orientated languages (such as 
AS1.0 and JavaScript) are really pretty cool and you can do amazing things 
with them.


I read somewhere (sorry can't find link but it was on sitepoint.com written 
by Harry Fuecks)  that one of the leading technical directors at google had 
produced a patterns book with most of the important patterns completely 
rewritten for prototype OO languages and many of them were far simpler and 
much less code.


of course there is always the trade off with any dynamic language - the 
less errors can be caught at 'compile time' the more you have to test the 
code using 'unit testing' at run time.


I take any comments like 'AS2 is crap' or 'PHP is crap' or whatever with a 
huge pinch of salt. Ask them 'Do you think people at Macromedia/Adobe don't 
know what they're doing?' usually these people have a computer science 
degree from Wolverhampton Poly or somesuch and couldn't get a job at Adobe 
or Macromedia if they promised to work for nothing and give foot massages 
to all the other developers whilst compiling.


James

At 15:12 25/08/2006, you wrote:

When it comes to OOP and Flash I think an individuals opinion comes from
their knowledge of OOP. Those that have used it swear by it and vice versa.
This is pretty much how it is with everything. I remember at the release of
AS2 there were quite a few developers that I had interactions with that were
saying that AS2 was crap and not to use it. I wonder how well that worked
out for them :)

- darren

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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[slangeberg]

My current system is to create a Main class, which is the only thing on the
timeline. Then instantiate, passing in _root:

var main:Main = new Main( this );

Where my class now has an internal reference to _root, but no headaches with
embedding movies, forcing _lockroot, or anything.

eg:

import PanelHelper;

import mx.controls.Label;
import mx.core.UIObject;

class Main
{
   function Main( root:MovieClip )
   {
   var panel:PanelHelper = root.createObject( "PanelView", "panelView",
0 );
   panel.setLabel( "What is going on?" );
   }
}

Again, you can take it to next level, by associating a class with the clip
itself. In the library in the linkage option, you can specify an AS2 class
to associate with your clip (here, PanelHelper). I believe that this class
can extend UIObject or UIComponent, both of which give you a lot of advanced
functionality. However, inside that class, you need to create references to
whatever assets are on the stage of that library clip, such as:

import mx.core.UIObject;

class PanelHelper extends UIObject
{
   private var input:TextField;

   function PanelHelper()
   {
   trace( "\n *** PanelHelper()" );

   trace( "input.text: "+input.text );
   }
}


This would probably be a good place to read more:

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/flash/8/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=3023.html


Sorry if this isn't going anywhere, but wanted to get people thinking - and
correcting me, if they have better ways!

Scott

On 8/24/06, Ricardo Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Can you share some hints? Is it OOP? If you tell me that book is good I'll
probably buy it but it would be nice if you share a little of what you are
talking about.

Thanks!

On 8/24/06, Wouter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For the system you are describing I use one from this book (chapter 3)
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590595947
>
> It is a nice system formenus, doing exactly what you want and it is easy
> to
> customize
>
> Wouter
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ricardo
> Sánchez
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:53 PM
> To: Flashcoders mailing list
> Subject: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my
> faith...
>
> Maybe I'm not explaining my self clear.
>
> What I want to know is what is the best approach to make a site with a
> menu
> with some buttons with rollOvers, rollOuts... When you click a button it
> stays selected until you click another one.
>
> Clicking any button will load content on a specific place on the web,
> making
> it appear with some animation and making also the last one desapear...
>
> I ask this because 80% of the projects I make have that structure or
very
> similar. And I think it can be helpfull to other people too.
>
> On 8/23/06, Ricardo Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > ... well, not really but I thought it was good as I title
> >
> > I always use OOP for my flash projects but, even if I find it easier
> > than timeline coding, I dont know if I'm taking all the advantage of
> > OOP. I'm not even sure if I am aplying the correct patterns for every
> problem.
> >
> > My insecurity probably has to do with the lack of normal work OOP
> > flash examples. For example the typicall top menu/content web. How can
> > OOP be applied to that?
> >
> > I guess I find a gap in the theory of knowing how to link the symbols,
> > movieclips, timeline and graphics in flash with the code in external
> files.
> >
> > Am I opening a can of worms?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> ___
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--

: : ) Scott
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Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Ricardo Sánchez]

Can you share some hints? Is it OOP? If you tell me that book is good I'll
probably buy it but it would be nice if you share a little of what you are
talking about.

Thanks!

On 8/24/06, Wouter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


For the system you are describing I use one from this book (chapter 3)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590595947

It is a nice system formenus, doing exactly what you want and it is easy
to
customize

Wouter



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ricardo
Sánchez
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:53 PM
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my
faith...

Maybe I'm not explaining my self clear.

What I want to know is what is the best approach to make a site with a
menu
with some buttons with rollOvers, rollOuts... When you click a button it
stays selected until you click another one.

Clicking any button will load content on a specific place on the web,
making
it appear with some animation and making also the last one desapear...

I ask this because 80% of the projects I make have that structure or very
similar. And I think it can be helpfull to other people too.

On 8/23/06, Ricardo Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ... well, not really but I thought it was good as I title
>
> I always use OOP for my flash projects but, even if I find it easier
> than timeline coding, I dont know if I'm taking all the advantage of
> OOP. I'm not even sure if I am aplying the correct patterns for every
problem.
>
> My insecurity probably has to do with the lack of normal work OOP
> flash examples. For example the typicall top menu/content web. How can
> OOP be applied to that?
>
> I guess I find a gap in the theory of knowing how to link the symbols,
> movieclips, timeline and graphics in flash with the code in external
files.
>
> Am I opening a can of worms?
>
> Thanks.
>
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RE: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith...

[Wouter]

For the system you are describing I use one from this book (chapter 3)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590595947

It is a nice system formenus, doing exactly what you want and it is easy to
customize

Wouter



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ricardo
Sánchez
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:53 PM
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my
faith...

Maybe I'm not explaining my self clear.

What I want to know is what is the best approach to make a site with a menu
with some buttons with rollOvers, rollOuts... When you click a button it
stays selected until you click another one.

Clicking any button will load content on a specific place on the web, making
it appear with some animation and making also the last one desapear...

I ask this because 80% of the projects I make have that structure or very
similar. And I think it can be helpfull to other people too.

On 8/23/06, Ricardo Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ... well, not really but I thought it was good as I title
>
> I always use OOP for my flash projects but, even if I find it easier 
> than timeline coding, I dont know if I'm taking all the advantage of 
> OOP. I'm not even sure if I am aplying the correct patterns for every
problem.
>
> My insecurity probably has to do with the lack of normal work OOP 
> flash examples. For example the typicall top menu/content web. How can 
> OOP be applied to that?
>
> I guess I find a gap in the theory of knowing how to link the symbols, 
> movieclips, timeline and graphics in flash with the code in external
files.
>
> Am I opening a can of worms?
>
> Thanks.
>
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