Re: [flexcoders] RE: Flex Jusitification (Was: if I buy a flex license can I host other peoples apps on the license?)
Adding to the personal experiences in the Flex dev venture, I work in a financial services company ( we develop core banking systems, latam based ). My first encounter with flex happened during mid 2004. Since then I have been trying to introduce the technology in every single project. The functionality gains were crystal clear! Nevertheless, not a single serious Flex project happened ( I built a zillion POCs, and a pair of dashboards ) until evidence that BOFA, BKB, SAP and other big players were betting some cards on Flex. Monkey see, monkey do!... now every bank is jumping in. Common widgets, like dashboards and simulators are soon to be the order of the day. My personal quick advices: - Sell proven concepts (usually things where flex excels and are not extremely hard to develop) and use the competition as leverage. - Target business people instead of IT, as they will value the differentiating factor to a greater extent. They won't get lost in tech-isms and the but-its-not-an-open-standard attack. - Specifically: leverage multimedia, OCC, charts, online presence and collab. Best, Aldo On 7/19/05, Douglas Knudsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: good post. We just convinced the big boys to spring for Flex. Got a couple licenses at a vendor pricing, we have over 30 CF liceneses around here. Pricing was not so bad, we are a big oracle shop, Oracle is far from cheap. We also are a Siebel and Websphere shop in the enterprise area. We happen to have all Enterprise CF, so we can use JRun, I'm sure Tomcat could have been used just as well if we didn't have JRun around. I'm the lucky guinea pig that gets to churn out the first app. yeehaw! BTW, nice breezo on synergy Scott. DK On 7/19/05, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firstly, moved this to a separate thread (no use hijacking an existing one - hope no1 minds much) I've moaned and groaned about the price tag since it was first announced. I've been on both ends in trying to implement the technology. The thing is, it is selling, and since I last heard - selling well. If you only have 1x Application that needs building and can't afford the price tag, again seek the OEM edition(s) as they can be more approachable. As for recouping costs? We have approx 5-6 developers dedicated to FLEX/CFMX development here, all costing around $70k+ AUD a year. Now, if you broke down their output capabilities it would be safe to argue that they could probably churn out about 9-15 Enterprise level applications that suite the business a year. Now, at this point use products like Laszlo (I mean especially now with Flash Player 8's capabilties...again, yet another reason to keep close to Macromedia) or DHTML in reality how many applications could be made per year? My point, is that it certainly can be justified in terms of why you should buy it, but you have to target the right people with the right information which underpins my comments I guess, as for me it was a dramatic awakening here locally. In a nutshell, we bought FLEX, it was great - except - I'm the only developer here who knows the language, the rest look to me for guidance how do i center the titlewindow popup etc. I once broke down the pricing in reality terms, via my blog. I think I guesstimated it would cost around 50k AUD in the first year, just to implement it. http://www.mossyblog.com/archives/235.cfm - Flex the Hidden Costs. Now, looking back on it, so far it hasn't cost us as much. Mainly as we are kind dodge in the way we implemented our FLEX environment (ie using Single CPU servers for a start). Development machine is more of a staging machine and we use the developers edition locally on pc's to dev with. We bypassed training costs, as in truth management were reluctant to send all developers to Sydney so they can train. The development team are taking baby steps into the product, at present I've been the only one working on larger applications (which isn't that bad i guess) while the others are easing into the product. One thing I personally overlooked was the fact we also needed a J2EE server. I had assumed that FLEX Commercial was much like Flex Developer, in that it comes bundled with a standalone server. ..ok I'm a moron and should of read the System Requirements a bit more closely. So we had to upgrade Coldfusion 7 Prof to Coldfusion 7 Ent. My point? at this stage if I were to be hauled into an office and justify on why we should pursue with FLEX, I'd reluctantly have to take a sobering step back and ponder if it does hold merit? For me as a developer personally, I've done more work in the last few months then i would of if were forced to use DHTML or FLASH MX 2004. That's for sure. As for the other developers? hard to say on whether they gained traction in terms of development speed. Part of me
[flexcoders] RE: Flex Jusitification (Was: if I buy a flex license can I host other peoples apps on the license?)
Firstly, moved this to a separate thread (no use hijacking an existing one - hope no1 minds much) I've moaned and groaned about the price tag since it was first announced. I've been on both ends in trying to implement the technology. The thing is, it is selling, and since I last heard - selling well. If you only have 1x Application that needs building and can't afford the price tag, again seek the OEM edition(s) as they can be more approachable. As for recouping costs? We have approx 5-6 developers dedicated to FLEX/CFMX development here, all costing around $70k+ AUD a year. Now, if you broke down their output capabilities it would be safe to argue that they could probably churn out about 9-15 Enterprise level applications that suite the business a year. Now, at this point use products like Laszlo (I mean especially now with Flash Player 8's capabilties...again, yet another reason to keep close to Macromedia) or DHTML in reality how many applications could be made per year? My point, is that it certainly can be justified in terms of why you should buy it, but you have to target the right people with the right information which underpins my comments I guess, as for me it was a dramatic awakening here locally. In a nutshell, we bought FLEX, it was great - except - I'm the only developer here who knows the language, the rest look to me for guidance how do i center the titlewindow popup etc. I once broke down the pricing in reality terms, via my blog. I think I guesstimated it would cost around 50k AUD in the first year, just to implement it. http://www.mossyblog.com/archives/235.cfm - Flex the Hidden Costs. Now, looking back on it, so far it hasn't cost us as much. Mainly as we are kind dodge in the way we implemented our FLEX environment (ie using Single CPU servers for a start). Development machine is more of a staging machine and we use the developers edition locally on pc's to dev with. We bypassed training costs, as in truth management were reluctant to send all developers to Sydney so they can train. The development team are taking baby steps into the product, at present I've been the only one working on larger applications (which isn't that bad i guess) while the others are easing into the product. One thing I personally overlooked was the fact we also needed a J2EE server. I had assumed that FLEX Commercial was much like Flex Developer, in that it comes bundled with a standalone server. ..ok I'm a moron and should of read the System Requirements a bit more closely. So we had to upgrade Coldfusion 7 Prof to Coldfusion 7 Ent. My point? at this stage if I were to be hauled into an office and justify on why we should pursue with FLEX, I'd reluctantly have to take a sobering step back and ponder if it does hold merit? For me as a developer personally, I've done more work in the last few months then i would of if were forced to use DHTML or FLASH MX 2004. That's for sure. As for the other developers? hard to say on whether they gained traction in terms of development speed. Part of me See's that they were able to churn through the basic UI framework, yet I have to sadly say they are still in the easing stage were the learning curve is still there (so one could argue a reduction in output) In truth, I probably could not accurately answer on whether we gained or lost more in our FLEX investment. As for future investment? well that goes without saying, simply put: we already have invested in it and its too late to turn back now. Just means our shareholders will have to buy a Honda next year instead of that BMW they had their eye on ehehehe. Hopefully the FLEX clientele will pick up as now I'm a committed FLEX developer, and would love to continue a career in the product - yet, Australia for one doesn't have much in the way of Job Offers with FLEX (I've see/gotten more US based offers) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- message -- From: ejames8124 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Jul 20, 2005 6:46 AM Subject: [flexcoders] Re: If I buy a flex license can I host other peoples apps on the license? To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Take a look at http://www.openlaszlo.org/ this is an open source version of a server side flash code generator that in the latest 3.x version is matched very closely in features as Flex. It doesn't have as fully featured a development environment as Flex Builder but the current Open Source IDE for Laszlo is produced by IBM for the Eclipse IDE environment and unlike Flex it is cross platform in the development side and best of all it is free. Don't get me wrong I think that Flex is great but the server cost just isn't in most organizations budget. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, naden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Stace, I am over here at a university in Perth, Australia and are looking at Flex for one of our software projects. I would be immensely grateful if you had any thoughts on Flex in general, whether it is worth the money
Re: [flexcoders] RE: Flex Jusitification (Was: if I buy a flex license can I host other peoples apps on the license?)
good post. We just convinced the big boys to spring for Flex. Gota couple licenses at a vendor pricing, we have over 30 CF liceneses around here. Pricing was not so bad, we are a big oracle shop, Oracle is far from cheap. We also are a Siebel and Websphere shop in the enterprise area.We happen to have all Enterprise CF, so we can use JRun, I'm sure Tomcat could have been used just as well if we didn't have JRun around. I'm the lucky guinea pig that gets to churn out the first app. yeehaw! BTW, nice breezo on synergy Scott. DK On 7/19/05, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firstly, moved this to a separate thread (no use hijacking an existingone - hope no1 minds much) I've moaned and groaned about the price tag since it was firstannounced. I've been on both ends in trying to implement thetechnology.The thing is, it is selling, and since I last heard - selling well. If you only have 1x Application that needs building and can't afford theprice tag, again seek the OEM edition(s) as they can be moreapproachable.As for recouping costs? We have approx 5-6 developers dedicated to FLEX/CFMX development here, all costing around $70k+ AUD a year. Now,if you broke down their output capabilities it would be safe to arguethat they could probably churn out about 9-15 Enterprise levelapplications that suite the business a year. Now, at this point use products like Laszlo (I mean especially nowwith Flash Player 8's capabilties...again, yet another reason to keepclose to Macromedia) or DHTML in reality how many applications could be made per year?My point, is that it certainly can be justified in terms of why youshould buy it, but you have to target the right people with the rightinformation which underpins my comments I guess, as for me it was a dramatic awakening here locally.In a nutshell, we bought FLEX, it was great - except - I'm the onlydeveloper here who knows the language, the rest look to me forguidance how do i center the titlewindow popup etc. I once broke down the pricing in reality terms, via my blog. I think Iguesstimated it would cost around 50k AUD in the first year, just toimplement it. http://www.mossyblog.com/archives/235.cfm - Flex the Hidden Costs.Now, looking back on it, so far it hasn't cost us as much. Mainly aswe are kind dodge in the way we implemented our FLEX environment (ie using Single CPU servers for a start). Development machine is more ofa staging machine and we use the developers edition locally on pc'sto dev with.We bypassed training costs, as in truth management were reluctant to send all developers to Sydney so they can train.The development team are taking baby steps into the product, atpresent I've been the only one working on larger applications (whichisn't that bad i guess) while the others are easing into the product. One thing I personally overlooked was the fact we also needed a J2EEserver. I had assumed that FLEX Commercial was much like FlexDeveloper, in that it comes bundled with a standalone server. ..ok I'ma moron and should of read the System Requirements a bit more closely. So we had to upgrade Coldfusion 7 Prof to Coldfusion 7 Ent.My point? at this stage if I were to be hauled into an office andjustify on why we should pursue with FLEX, I'd reluctantlyhave totake a sobering step back and ponder if it does hold merit? For me as a developer personally, I've done more work in the last few monthsthen i would of if were forced to use DHTML or FLASH MX 2004. That'sfor sure.As for the other developers? hard to say on whether they gained traction in terms of development speed. Part of me See's that theywere able to churn through the basic UI framework, yet I have to sadlysay they are still in the easing stage were the learning curve is still there (so one could argue a reduction in output)In truth, I probably could not accurately answer on whether we gainedor lost more in our FLEX investment. As for future investment? wellthat goes without saying, simply put: we already have invested in it and its too late to turn back now. Just means our shareholders willhave to buy a Honda next year instead of that BMW they had their eyeon ehehehe.Hopefully the FLEX clientele will pick up as now I'm a committed FLEX developer, and would love to continue a career in the product - yet,Australia for one doesn't have much in the way of Job Offers with FLEX(I've see/gotten more US based offers)--Regards,Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com-- message --From: ejames8124 [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Jul 20, 2005 6:46 AM Subject: [flexcoders] Re: If I buy a flex license can I host otherpeoples apps on the license?To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comTake a look at http://www.openlaszlo.org/ this is an open sourceversion of a server side flash code generator that in the latest 3.xversion is matched very closely in features as Flex. It doesn't haveas fully featured a development environment as Flex Builder but the current Open Source IDE for Laszlo is produced by IBM for the EclipseIDE
