Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
On Friday 01 May 2009, daxdr9 wrote: This is hardly a surprise given the current economic conditions, assuming the ROI isn't there for the FB Linux product at this time. Your kidding, right ? 200 votes. Assume each of those averages out at 5 real people (not everyone is on line, not everyone cares to register and/or vote, some people who vote would buy more than 1 license). FB Pro is 500 quid, so that's a hundred thousand pounds, right there. That's around about 5 man years. -- Helping to appropriately e-enable wireless slick front-end designs as part of the IT team of the year, '09 and '08 Tom Chiverton Developer Tel: +44 0161 618 5032 Fax: +44 0161 618 5099 tom.chiver...@halliwells.com 3 Hardman Square, Manchester, M3 3EB www.Halliwells.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office together with a list of those non members who are referred to as partners. We use the word ?partner? to refer to a member of the LLP, or an employee or consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.Halliwells.com.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
On Tuesday 05 May 2009, Tom Chiverton wrote: FB Pro is 500 quid, so that's a hundred thousand pounds, right there. That's around about 5 man years. That's with out the multiple of 5, by the way... -- Helping to dynamically maximize meta-services as part of the IT team of the year, '09 and '08 Tom Chiverton Developer Tel: +44 0161 618 5032 Fax: +44 0161 618 5099 tom.chiver...@halliwells.com 3 Hardman Square, Manchester, M3 3EB www.Halliwells.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office together with a list of those non members who are referred to as partners. We use the word ?partner? to refer to a member of the LLP, or an employee or consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.Halliwells.com.
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
so that's a hundred thousand pounds, right there. That's around about 5 man years. You have cheap developers ;) Plus, the team isn't going to be 1 person for 5 years, say they have a team of 20 on it (developers, testers, Project managers, user experience experts, marketing, etc) averaging 35k each... That's what, just short of 2 months work? (Assuming they all work on it full time) That's just not going to happen. Gk. Gregor Kiddie Senior Developer INPS Tel: 01382 564343 Registered address: The Bread Factory, 1a Broughton Street, London SW8 3QJ Registered Number: 1788577 Registered in the UK Visit our Internet Web site at www.inps.co.uk blocked::http://www.inps.co.uk/ The information in this internet email is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee. Access, copying or re-use of information in it by anyone else is not authorised. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of INPS or any of its affiliates. If you are not the intended recipient please contact is.helpd...@inps.co.uk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcod...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Chiverton Sent: 05 May 2009 09:34 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ? On Friday 01 May 2009, daxdr9 wrote: This is hardly a surprise given the current economic conditions, assuming the ROI isn't there for the FB Linux product at this time. Your kidding, right ? 200 votes. Assume each of those averages out at 5 real people (not everyone is on line, not everyone cares to register and/or vote, some people who vote would buy more than 1 license). FB Pro is 500 quid, so that's a hundred thousand pounds, right there. That's around about 5 man years. -- Helping to appropriately e-enable wireless slick front-end designs as part of the IT team of the year, '09 and '08 http://service47.mimecast.com/mimecast/store?code=17f8a8249e46f802b971c e9b92683063file=17880134 Tom Chiverton Developer Tel: +44 0161 618 5032 Fax: +44 0161 618 5099 tom.chiver...@halliwells.com mailto:tom.chiver...@halliwells.com 3 Hardman Square, Manchester, M3 3EB www.Halliwells.com http://www.Halliwells.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office together with a list of those non members who are referred to as partners. We use the word ?partner? to refer to a member of the LLP, or an employee or consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.Halliwells.com http://www.Halliwells.com .
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
On Tuesday 05 May 2009, Gregor Kiddie wrote: You have cheap developers ;) You know where most of Adobe's developers are, right ? Plus, it's just Java grunt work, I naively assume :-) Plus, the team isn't going to be 1 person for 5 years, say they have a team of 20 on it (developers, testers, Project managers, user experience experts, marketing, etc) averaging 35k each... 20 ! Remember the product is basically done - they have shipable installers and base functionality. I don't believe it is very much work to tidy up the majority of the bugs (with debugging, for instance). Now, adding new features (like design view) is harder work, obviously, but those features are already cross platform enough to run on Windows and Mac... Non-Pro Builder is what, 160 quid ? That's lacking, err... ADV and profiler ? The profiler and design view are all that's missing from Linux Builder as it stands. Of course, to get ADV you have to buy the pro. version, but there are other data visualisation options (some free), and Matt appears to be hinting at some sort of 'information on our plans' shortly. Even at 160 quid, the maths still says 160 thousand pounds, which should be enough to get the existing bugs fixed and the product shipping. It'll be a lot cheaper to support once it's code base is sync'ed (mostly ?) with the other two versions. -- Helping to efficiently cluster mission-critical B2B front-end holistic infrastructures as part of the IT team of the year, '09 and '08 Tom Chiverton Developer Tel: +44 0161 618 5032 Fax: +44 0161 618 5099 tom.chiver...@halliwells.com 3 Hardman Square, Manchester, M3 3EB www.Halliwells.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office together with a list of those non members who are referred to as partners. We use the word ?partner? to refer to a member of the LLP, or an employee or consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.Halliwells.com.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 12:49 PM, john fisher j...@jpfisher.net wrote: 2) My company is a Linux shop and no license money is available for experimental projects; CTO wants Java and the only way I can convince him Flex/Flash is better is to show something else that works. How were you going to buy Flex Builder even if it was going to be available on Linux? -- Howard Fore, howard.f...@hofo.com The universe tends toward maximum irony. Don't push it. - Jeff Atwood
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
Howard, once something gets traction, then licenses and boxes can be bought. In spite of our stripped to the bone status, money somehow appears for projects that have to get done. Howard Fore wrote: How were you going to buy Flex Builder even if it was going to be available on Linux?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
Creepy. Although it's just a patent; there's no evidence it has been implemented in Vista/7. Is there? Personally, I'm more concerned about Google, given their primary source of profit is advertising, and they store a substantial amount of my email from the past 5 years, plus know nearly every search term I've entered. Email plus search terms would be an enormous gold mine for advertisers. As for the last link - most of it exists in Mac and Linux (taking Ubuntu as the representative here). Ubuntu knows every package you have installed from their repos (along with when, your IP address) thanks to HTTP headers. It wouldn't work without it. In Kubuntu there's crash reporter that sends data off somewhere too. Auto-updating exists in Ubuntu too. And CEIP's are in many apps these days - including one you use, Eclipse. CEIPs are optional. And for terado - that's how IPv4 to IPv6 translation works on every platform. The time server has to come from somewhere too, and I don't think time.nist.gov would be too happy if every Windows installation pointed to that and overloaded their servers. I could go on, but I think you should download and run Wireshark on your OS. Watch what goes out over a few days; I think you'd be surprised. OSes nowadays are designed to be connected, and (unfortunately) HTTP was not designed to be anonymous. P.S. I would love it if Ubuntu had a wizard in its install process that sent lspci/lsusb to Ubuntu so they can tell me whether or not my hardware will be fully supported, *before* I do the installation. 2009/5/1 Kelly dek...@gmail.com: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2007/07/microsoft-patents-the-mother-of-all-adware-systems.ars http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PG01p=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htmlr=1f=Gl=50s1=%2220070157227%22.PGNR.OS=DN/20070157227RS=DN/20070157227 http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml The personal information we collect from you will be used by Microsoft and its controlled subsidiaries and affiliates... Paul Andrews wrote: - Original Message - From: Kelly To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ? Microsoft deep scans your hard drives and transmits home. This is admitted in their patents. This is data mining on a level Orwell could never have imagined. What evidence do you have that MS is doing this and undermining the security of people who use their OS?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
One more thing - I know I contradicted my earlier post, but there was just too many things wrong with the last link. Apologies. 2009/5/1 Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com: Creepy. Although it's just a patent; there's no evidence it has been implemented in Vista/7. Is there? Personally, I'm more concerned about Google, given their primary source of profit is advertising, and they store a substantial amount of my email from the past 5 years, plus know nearly every search term I've entered. Email plus search terms would be an enormous gold mine for advertisers. As for the last link - most of it exists in Mac and Linux (taking Ubuntu as the representative here). Ubuntu knows every package you have installed from their repos (along with when, your IP address) thanks to HTTP headers. It wouldn't work without it. In Kubuntu there's crash reporter that sends data off somewhere too. Auto-updating exists in Ubuntu too. And CEIP's are in many apps these days - including one you use, Eclipse. CEIPs are optional. And for terado - that's how IPv4 to IPv6 translation works on every platform. The time server has to come from somewhere too, and I don't think time.nist.gov would be too happy if every Windows installation pointed to that and overloaded their servers. I could go on, but I think you should download and run Wireshark on your OS. Watch what goes out over a few days; I think you'd be surprised. OSes nowadays are designed to be connected, and (unfortunately) HTTP was not designed to be anonymous. P.S. I would love it if Ubuntu had a wizard in its install process that sent lspci/lsusb to Ubuntu so they can tell me whether or not my hardware will be fully supported, *before* I do the installation. 2009/5/1 Kelly dek...@gmail.com: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2007/07/microsoft-patents-the-mother-of-all-adware-systems.ars http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PG01p=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htmlr=1f=Gl=50s1=%2220070157227%22.PGNR.OS=DN/20070157227RS=DN/20070157227 http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml The personal information we collect from you will be used by Microsoft and its controlled subsidiaries and affiliates... Paul Andrews wrote: - Original Message - From: Kelly To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ? Microsoft deep scans your hard drives and transmits home. This is admitted in their patents. This is data mining on a level Orwell could never have imagined. What evidence do you have that MS is doing this and undermining the security of people who use their OS?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
Well most or all decisions are based on emotion, despite what we rationalists think, but I take your point. I'd like to write something here thats actually useful and might contribute a tiny item to the knowledge pile at Adobe, without boring everybody with personal details- 1) windows + Adobe puts me over budget at home, and I am accustomed to using all-open software, and one of the appeals of Flex Builder on Linux was I could learn it without forking over money. and yes it galls me to send money to MS. 2) My company is a Linux shop and no license money is available for experimental projects; CTO wants Java and the only way I can convince him Flex/Flash is better is to show something else that works. 3) I need to see what its like developing without the Flex Builder framework. I am already the only one in the building who uses an IDE or visual debugger. Just as I had no idea how Sun was going to make money on Java ( opposed to IBM who does) I don't know how Adobe can make money giving away tools, but it sure looks like open tools are going to win the battle in the long run, and proprietary tools will lose market share. Maybe Adobe can sell the visual designer stuff? Open source software people are so wary of proprietary tools because we have seen over and over how tool sets get munged over time, or even abandoned, how open tools have vastly better tech support, and now finally with Eclipse, open tools are achieving parity with the visual IDE stuff from vendors. It seemed to me that Adobe was following a semi-open model with Flex, for instance open bug reporting, and that attracted me in the first place. and so forth John daxdr9 wrote: If your willing to drop Flex because they don't sell an IDE for Linux, you're basing a technical decision on emotion.
[flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
This is hardly a surprise given the current economic conditions, assuming the ROI isn't there for the FB Linux product at this time. Does anyone really not own at least one Windows-based PC or Apple computer? (I'm sure there are people who only run Linux--a very small percentage, though) If your willing to drop Flex because they don't sell an IDE for Linux, you're basing a technical decision on emotion. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Matt Chotin mcho...@... wrote: I'm going to continue to stay out of the fray, but just to be clear, that conversation is about Flex Builder, not the SDK. We will always support developers on Linux, it's a question of what we tools beyond the SDK we provide. We'll be looking to share more information on our plans in a few weeks. Matt On 4/30/09 4:44 PM, Guy Morton g...@... wrote: Wouldn't you still be able to build your own IDE using the free SDK? As I understand it a lot of people do this now to avoid having to buy FB, and I imagine Linux users would be relatively common within that group. If sales for a linux version of FB are too low to justify the ongoing cost of development, you can hardly blame Adobe for that. Their support for *nix is better than most. Guy On 01/05/2009, at 9:35 AM, john fisher wrote: If Adobe drops Linux support for Flex, then I will probably drop Flex. I won't maintain a Windows or Mac box at home, and my company really doesn't want to invest in any more Windows apps. I don't want to invest myself in technology I can't run independently of whoever I happen to be working for today. Seeing the fickleness of the corporate owners of development tools is what sent us to Linux and open source tools in the first place. We can't bet our products on some whim of Adobe. My current all-Linux proof-of-concept project will be blown out of the water, and I'll have to get up to speed on Java. -grieving already John and at a time when Linux is gnawing away at laptop market from below and the desktop market is dying...
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
- Original Message - From: Kelly To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ? Microsoft deep scans your hard drives and transmits home. This is admitted in their patents. This is data mining on a level Orwell could never have imagined. What evidence do you have that MS is doing this and undermining the security of people who use their OS?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
Why do conversations about Linux always devolve into an MS-bashing thread, often based on unfounded assumptions? Take it off-list. 2009/5/1 Kelly dek...@gmail.com: Microsoft deep scans your hard drives and transmits home. This is admitted in their patents. This is data mining on a level Orwell could never have imagined. So it is less of an emotional issue and more of a security issue. Why large corporations are willing to accept this is a mystery to me. They are usually very concerned with corporate security. This is even more mysterious when talking about companies that compete directly with Microsoft. Like Adobe. Does Adobe not see using XP/Vista inside of their corporate network as a security threat? Why not? daxdr9 wrote: This is hardly a surprise given the current economic conditions, assuming the ROI isn't there for the FB Linux product at this time. Does anyone really not own at least one Windows-based PC or Apple computer? (I'm sure there are people who only run Linux--a very small percentage, though) If your willing to drop Flex because they don't sell an IDE for Linux, you're basing a technical decision on emotion. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Matt Chotin mcho...@... wrote: I'm going to continue to stay out of the fray, but just to be clear, that conversation is about Flex Builder, not the SDK. We will always support developers on Linux, it's a question of what we tools beyond the SDK we provide. We'll be looking to share more information on our plans in a few weeks. Matt On 4/30/09 4:44 PM, Guy Morton g...@... wrote: Wouldn't you still be able to build your own IDE using the free SDK? As I understand it a lot of people do this now to avoid having to buy FB, and I imagine Linux users would be relatively common within that group. If sales for a linux version of FB are too low to justify the ongoing cost of development, you can hardly blame Adobe for that. Their support for *nix is better than most. Guy On 01/05/2009, at 9:35 AM, john fisher wrote: If Adobe drops Linux support for Flex, then I will probably drop Flex. I won't maintain a Windows or Mac box at home, and my company really doesn't want to invest in any more Windows apps. I don't want to invest myself in technology I can't run independently of whoever I happen to be working for today. Seeing the fickleness of the corporate owners of development tools is what sent us to Linux and open source tools in the first place. We can't bet our products on some whim of Adobe. My current all-Linux proof-of-concept project will be blown out of the water, and I'll have to get up to speed on Java. -grieving already John and at a time when Linux is gnawing away at laptop market from below and the desktop market is dying...
[flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
i just had a peak at IntelliJ's features it doesn't seem to do cf--so its useless to me. if you do cf/java/flex/air i think it will be kind of hard to escape eclipse. http://coldfusion-in-idea.blogspot.com/ There is a plug in for cold fusion for IntelliJ. I also read on another blog that the developers who work on cold fusion mostly use Intellij. Not sure if that is true or not. I use Intellij for java / jsp / html / groovy and am thrilled with it. Haven't tried it yet for flex but am tempted to. What is missing in flex builder for me is a pane that shows me the list of methods in my mx:script component.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
Tony Obermeit wrote: i just had a peak at IntelliJ's features it doesn't seem to do cf--so its useless to me. if you do cf/java/flex/air i think it will be kind of hard to escape eclipse. http://coldfusion-in-idea.blogspot.com/ There is a plug in for cold fusion for IntelliJ. I also read on another blog that the developers who work on cold fusion mostly use Intellij. Not sure if that is true or not. I don't know if it is true or not either, however... I would expect that the the developers creating ColdFusion spend more time writing Java than they do ColdFusion. I use Intellij for java / jsp / html / groovy and am thrilled with it. Haven't tried it yet for flex but am tempted to. What is missing in flex builder for me is a pane that shows me the list of methods in my mx:script component. It is in the outline view. In an MXML file, click the green 'c' button to see the script methods. The default '' button will show the MXML tags. As best I understand there is no way to mix them. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur Adobe Community Expert: http://tinyurl.com/684b5h http://www.twitter.com/reboog711 | Phone: 203-379-0773 -- Easy to use Interface Components for Flex Developers http://www.flextras.com?c=104 -- http://www.theflexshow.com http://www.jeffryhouser.com -- Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
[flexcoders] Re: Flex Builder on Linux been scrapped ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/141958;_ylc=X3oDMTJ0a2wyaXFiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyMjg2MTY3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNzIwNwRtc2dJZAMxNDE5NTgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI0MTAyMzUzOQ--http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/141958;_ylc=X3oDMTJ0a2wyaXFiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyMjg2MTY3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNzIwNwRtc2dJZAMxNDE5NTgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI0MTAyMzUzOQ-- It is in the outline view. In an MXML file, click the green 'c' button to see the script methods. The default '' button will show the MXML tags. As best I understand there is no way to mix them. Brilliant! Thanks.
