Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
- Original Message - From: Scott Barnes To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? Yup, different is the word. There is overlap with FLEX and AJAX, but since we can't pin a brand against AJAX it doesn't really rate in the papers. That being said, when AJAX kicked off people snip snip The way i see it (correct me if i'm wrong) either way You folks win, let the brands fight out the PR for a change as we (all) can only go up, not down right?. There's life after Microsoft, I just hope its much more exciting than it has been in the last 5 years is all ;) Scott Agnostic Evangelist Microsoft hehee - there will be complaints. Stupidly I read it all. I still don't know what you were trying to say, and I suspect neither did you. Please don't enlighten me either! Paul (I suspect incompatible dlls may have something to do with it)
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
On 4/19/07, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - *(snip)* (I suspect incompatible dlls may have something to do with it) *(snip)* So.. i'm thinking out loud here Paul, but you appear not to be a fan of Microsoft fair assement :) (which is aok, i'm at times not a fan either) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Scott you need to stop fingering things!
- Original Message
From: Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 17 April, 2007 11:46:32 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our
beloved Flex ?
I'm so sad, I remember Flash 3... I think i was toying with Flash path or
VRML... glad I went Flash..
On 17 Apr 2007 05:56:49 -0700, Ralph Hauwert [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote:
I'm amazed no-one mentioned scripting on this list yet. Silverlight relies on
the browser's JS engine for scripting. Basically, the XAML subset implement
Silverlight handles Layout, and animation, while the browser's javascript
engine actually provides for the scripting. IMHO, that's what we did with Flash
3. Although admittedly Flash 3 didn't event back.
Ralph.
On 17 Apr 2007 04:34:08 -0700, Scott Barnes
scott.barnes@ gmail.com wrote:
Claus,
Yup, so that's why FLEX does have its unique offering vs SilverLight and once
developers designers unsubscribe from the notion it's a Flash Killer and do
more of what you are doing (exploring it's upcoming release) you'll decide on
what you think it's merits are vs aren't. It's early days yet, so wouldn't
worry to much about it folks ;) just keep an open mind should you want to take
it for a test-run post MIX07 :)
WPF SilverLight are going to have interesting prospects just like Apollo and
FLEX will have it's own, I think the two will do different things for different
people. Keep fingers in all barrels I'd say :)
On 17 Apr 2007 03:30:22 -0700, Claus Wahlers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] com.br wrote:
If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the
idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive
applications.
Reading through the Silverlight docs, XAML looks to me like some weird
kind of microsoftified SVG, spiced up with MP3 and WM codecs. I'm still
searching but so far i couldn't find anything close to what Flex offers
(what i found are some barely working and butt ugly component
experiments) . I'd guess that Silverlight will get some video market
share, but it has a long way to go to enter the RIA market. My 2 centavos.
Cheers,
Claus.
--
claus wahlers
côdeazur brasil
http://codeazur. com.br/
http://wahlers. com.br/claus/ blog/
--
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblo g.com
--
Ralph Hauwert
--
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblo g.com
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Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Hi Scott, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Is there something on a Microsoft page that can help me? You seem to say that Silverlight and Flash are very different and I think you are implying that they don't really compete with each other. Or maybe that the feature or technology overlap between them is not as large as some people assume it is? When I look at Silverlight from a high level (assuming the clr is implemented) it does seem to me to overlap a great deal with Flash. I understand the workflow is different and the codecs are different but from a 9000 foot high perspective they seem to overlap a great deal. At any rate, this is a Flex discussion list, and I really don't want to prolong this thread needlessly. So, if you could could just point me at something written by Microsoft about how Silverlight is very different (at a high level) in what it enables a developer to do, or for an end user, from Flash I would appreciate it. Yours truly, -Brian Scott Barnes wrote: Hell no :) (Not while I have breathe and draw pay at Microsoft). SilverLight = Apple Flash = Orange Both eatable, but personally I'm an Orange man on Mon-Wed and Apple man Thu-Sun... If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Keep moving forward :) - Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist Microsoft - FUD is a common word abbrevation lately, what's with that? On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, *helihobby* [EMAIL PROTECTED] com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs. msdn.com/ tims/archive/ 2007/04/15/ introducing- microsoft- http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight. aspx http://www.microsof t.com/silverligh t/default_ 01.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobb y.com http://www.helihobby.com/]HeliHobby.com[ /URL] -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblo g.com http://www.mossyblog.com -- __ Brian Lesser Assistant Director, Application Development and Integration Computing and Communications Services Ryerson University 350 Victoria St. Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835 M5B 2K3Fax: (416) 979-5220 Office: POD?? E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Enter through LB99) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser __
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Yup, different is the word. There is overlap with FLEX and AJAX, but since we can't pin a brand against AJAX it doesn't really rate in the papers. That being said, when AJAX kicked off people did compare AJAX with FLEX a lot. It eventually went away because of the role AJAX plays vs FLEX, it's still in the sense of the word a threat as yeah we could pick it apart feature for feature right? but in the end, when I do a drag-n-drop with HTML and it cost me nothing and no change to what is comfortable (GUI for example) and done so (given how frameworks make this trivial each day) i get high-fives? Yet to ramp-up to FLEX, that means I have to delay my high-fives by a week? So is this good or bad? It depends on the maturity of the upper tiers and how far one is willing to go to get right tool, right job, right time in the room. There's no black or white answer on this one me thinks. I've noticed since joining Microsoft that beating up on it's brand is a popular thing to do and it costs nothing (sure I used to punch out emails with the M$ lettering because it was an obvious thing to do and was in some weird way funny. I joined MSFT and began to sort signal from noise within and realised that there are quite smart folks here - obviously I'm not one of them heehehe). Yet, Silverlight has its own destiny just like Flash will continue to have it's own cool heads will prevail. Eventually you'll see the path going forward and hopefully folks will begin to understand the motivation behind Silverlight (It's like a good book folks, each page is going to unveil more). I could give you a blow by blow play of how I think it plays out in the end, but that would just fuel the politics and draw the anti-Microsoft folks out of the wood work to challenge it. Rather than do that, I'll sit back on this one and let you guys/girls formulate your own informed opinion and come to your own conclusions on it, if you have questions along the way, you have my email :) or blog. Anything both Adobe and Microsoft say on the matter is only going to fuel different fires. Try it, see if you can see beyond the Flash vs Silverlight arguments and if you like what you see, let me know and I'll do what I can to hook you up with Microsoft help. Life is getting exciting folks, where do you think the next 5 years of the interweb (I love saying interweb as it reminds me of some comedy skits I once saw - had to be there style joke) is going to be? I personally am confused at what the fear around Silverlight is about, I'm actually excited that there is another channel to play in as well as FLASH. It's why I joined Microsoft? (I thought my peers in this space would pause long enough to at least give it a go when it's launch at the very least?). Anyway... keep moving forward :) I still use FLEX and still recommend it going forward and will always. Some have pushed the notion I may appear to be FUD messenger from hell but its really because I'd like to see Adobe do more in this space and frustrated with the pace its doing it at (Just like i'll push from the inside for MSFT to do more in their space etc no two companies are perfect). The way i see it (correct me if i'm wrong) either way You folks win, let the brands fight out the PR for a change as we (all) can only go up, not down right?. There's life after Microsoft, I just hope its much more exciting than it has been in the last 5 years is all ;) Scott Agnostic Evangelist Microsoft hehee - there will be complaints. On 18 Apr 2007 04:50:46 -0700, Brian Lesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Scott, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Is there something on a Microsoft page that can help me? You seem to say that Silverlight and Flash are very different and I think you are implying that they don't really compete with each other. Or maybe that the feature or technology overlap between them is not as large as some people assume it is? When I look at Silverlight from a high level (assuming the clr is implemented) it does seem to me to overlap a great deal with Flash. I understand the workflow is different and the codecs are different but from a 9000 foot high perspective they seem to overlap a great deal. At any rate, this is a Flex discussion list, and I really don't want to prolong this thread needlessly. So, if you could could just point me at something written by Microsoft about how Silverlight is very different (at a high level) in what it enables a developer to do, or for an end user, from Flash I would appreciate it. Yours truly, -Brian Scott Barnes wrote: Hell no :) (Not while I have breathe and draw pay at Microsoft). SilverLight = Apple Flash = Orange Both eatable, but personally I'm an Orange man on Mon-Wed and Apple man Thu-Sun... If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Keep moving forward :) - Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist Microsoft - FUD
RE: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
The problem with .NET and Flex is Adobe's stance that FDS is needed to build enterprise-class applications and that Remoting only works with FDS, both of which are flat out wrong. If Adobe isn't willing to make a .NET version of FDS then they should embrace the many options available to non-Java developers to use Remoting--Fluorine, WebORB, AMFPHP, etc. Even if they do make FDS available for other platforms, it would be wrong for them to use their position as the creator of Flash/Flex to attempt to squash alternatives to FDS through incorrect and misleading documentation. Also at least in .NET the Fluorine gateway supports calling existing web services via AMF remoting so you get to use your existing code but the transport is actually AMF and not SOAP. Sam --- We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex based products. Position is in the Washington D.C. metro area. If interested contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weyert de Boer Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:33 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? Yes, but web services aren't really meant for exchanging large sets of data anyways. Well, that's what I learned school about it ;) Indeed binary formats such as FDS/Remoting are fasters, but not something to use when you got legacy things or existing web services. At Yahoo we also XML over HTTP for exchanging the latest music/artist news. Yours, Weyert de Boer
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Hi Scott, I'm just looking for information I can use that will help me understand why you seem to be saying the two plugins and everything wrapped around them are so different. If you can't do that until after MIX that's OK. And, if it helps you, I'm not interested in FUD or marketing stuff, and I'm not part of some mob of you guys. I'm just one person reading a very large Flex mailing list that appreciates low noise informative posts that get to useful specifics. So when you can, please point me to something that will help me understand the differences? Thanks, -Brian Scott Barnes wrote: Yup, different is the word. -- __ Brian Lesser Assistant Director, Application Development and Integration Computing and Communications Services Ryerson University 350 Victoria St. Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835 M5B 2K3Fax: (416) 979-5220 Office: POD B-66-C E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Enter through LIB-B99)Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser __
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Actually I use a mac I LOVE IT. and I also got office mac. Its really not that
bad. I'm hanging for the new version to come out.
As for Flex/Flash killer comment. I hate using Scotts terminology but put both
fingers in the. What makes you employed who cares
about the technology. Same sh*t different day. With that said I have a very
interesting email that will be going to the list as well as Adobe.
Stay tuned for that.
Jeremy
- Original Message
From: Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 7:41:01 AM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our
beloved Flex ?
Ever seen Office on MAC? quite a compelling product and revenue
stream :)
On 17 Apr 2007 08:58:21 -0700, Paul J DeCoursey [EMAIL PROTECTED] net wrote:
All I have to say is it's Microsoft, if they kill anything it's not on
the merits of their product... it's brute force. This is not a threat
to Flash/Flex by any means. Microsoft will never be able to create a
truly cross platform product. All of their past efforts have been
clumsy at best, even on their own platform.
Paul
--
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblo g.com
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Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Hi Brian, I understand and to be honest, MIX07 is our launch pad for a lot of things and I can't steal their thunder .. i know i hate that as much as the next person as it's like saying I've got a secret... but i can't tell you it until later ... Don't tell me you have a damn secret then! heh. Personally, I remember the V1 Framework days when we were all waiting for Nigel Co to pump out some new components and so forth, and in the mean time we made our own framework(s) or attempted to anyway. That being said, even with the current WPF/e (aka Silverlight) you have that capability and can spin up your own framework as the primatives are there (not saying that's it, we're done and move on but I've seen a few Silverlight applications atm with RIA style functionality so far, so it's dooable and easy enough). Anyway happy to take this offline so i don't pollute the Flexcoders list with Silverlight stuff hehe. On 4/19/07, Brian Lesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Scott, I'm just looking for information I can use that will help me understand why you seem to be saying the two plugins and everything wrapped around them are so different. If you can't do that until after MIX that's OK. And, if it helps you, I'm not interested in FUD or marketing stuff, and I'm not part of some mob of you guys. I'm just one person reading a very large Flex mailing list that appreciates low noise informative posts that get to useful specifics. So when you can, please point me to something that will help me understand the differences? Thanks, -Brian Scott Barnes wrote: Yup, different is the word. -- __ Brian Lesser Assistant Director, Application Development and Integration Computing and Communications Services Ryerson University 350 Victoria St. Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835 M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220 Office: POD B-66-C E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] blesser%40ryerson.ca (Enter through LIB-B99) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser __ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
A coworked show me an example like the Flex Book, and looks very bad to me, it seems to be very heavy (I ear about 70Mb!), the interactivity not as smooth as ely's Flex book, so I'll continue with our beloved flash/flex technology. IMHO Microsoft will have to bring much more to the table in order to gain aceptance and get Flash developers in its platform, nowadays I think there's no competition. 16 Apr 2007 20:55:19 -0700, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] : I got it working to some extent for Camino (mozilla) on mac. By no means have i thoroughly tested it yet though. I couldn't imagine developing for it yet though. I need a platform that will guarantee me results. 10 years of Flash player deployment is a strong reason why i'll hold off for a while. Plus personally i've never been a fan of ms dev tools. Bjorn On 17/04/2007, at 1:30 PM, Jeremy Watson wrote: Silverlight is a cross-browser, cross-platform plug-in for delivering the next generation of media experiences and rich interactive applications (RIAs) for the Web. Except Mozilla. Which I tried to install and it failed - Original Message From: Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 17 April, 2007 11:14:53 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? No On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] com[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs. msdn.com/ tims/archive/ 2007/04/15/ introducing- microsoft-http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight. aspx http://www.microsof t.com/silverligh t/default_ 01.aspxhttp://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobb y.com http://www.HeliHobby.com]HeliHobby.com[ /URL] -- - - - - - - - Andrew Muller http://www.webqem. com http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin .com/pub/ 1/151/905http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905 Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer [image: QDC] Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: �+61 3 9674 7400 F: �+61 3 9645 9160 W: �http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) -- ::| Carlos Rovira ::| http://www.carlosrovira.com ::| http://www.madeinflex.com
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
On Tuesday 17 Apr 2007, Jeremy Watson wrote: Silverlight is a cross-browser, cross-platform plug-in for delivering the next generation of media experiences and rich interactive applications (RIAs) for the Web. Except on Linux. Or Solaris. It's all just WPF-related FUD to try and scare people away from the competions better (and shipping) product. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to proactively empower scalable schemas on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Hell no :) (Not while I have breathe and draw pay at Microsoft). SilverLight = Apple Flash = Orange Both eatable, but personally I'm an Orange man on Mon-Wed and Apple man Thu-Sun... If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Keep moving forward :) - Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist Microsoft - FUD is a common word abbrevation lately, what's with that? On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobby.com http://www.helihobby.com/]HeliHobby.com[/URL] -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Reading through the Silverlight docs, XAML looks to me like some weird kind of microsoftified SVG, spiced up with MP3 and WM codecs. I'm still searching but so far i couldn't find anything close to what Flex offers (what i found are some barely working and butt ugly component experiments). I'd guess that Silverlight will get some video market share, but it has a long way to go to enter the RIA market. My 2 centavos. Cheers, Claus. -- claus wahlers côdeazur brasil http://codeazur.com.br/ http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
I'm amazed no-one mentioned scripting on this list yet. Silverlight relies on the browser's JS engine for scripting. Basically, the XAML subset implement Silverlight handles Layout, and animation, while the browser's javascript engine actually provides for the scripting. IMHO, that's what we did with Flash 3. Although admittedly Flash 3 didn't event back. Ralph. On 17 Apr 2007 04:34:08 -0700, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Claus, Yup, so that's why FLEX does have its unique offering vs SilverLight and once developers designers unsubscribe from the notion it's a Flash Killer and do more of what you are doing (exploring it's upcoming release) you'll decide on what you think it's merits are vs aren't. It's early days yet, so wouldn't worry to much about it folks ;) just keep an open mind should you want to take it for a test-run post MIX07 :) WPF SilverLight are going to have interesting prospects just like Apollo and FLEX will have it's own, I think the two will do different things for different people. Keep fingers in all barrels I'd say :) On 17 Apr 2007 03:30:22 -0700, Claus Wahlers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Reading through the Silverlight docs, XAML looks to me like some weird kind of microsoftified SVG, spiced up with MP3 and WM codecs. I'm still searching but so far i couldn't find anything close to what Flex offers (what i found are some barely working and butt ugly component experiments). I'd guess that Silverlight will get some video market share, but it has a long way to go to enter the RIA market. My 2 centavos. Cheers, Claus. -- claus wahlers côdeazur brasil http://codeazur.com.br/ http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Ralph Hauwert
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
I¹ve been digging myself and right now I get the impression that its true RIA on windows (with full WPF behind it) but primarily a media player on other platforms. I¹ll be studying further to wash away my ignorance but that¹s where I¹m at now ... :-) Stace On 4/17/07 7:34 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Claus, Yup, so that's why FLEX does have its unique offering vs SilverLight and once developers designers unsubscribe from the notion it's a Flash Killer and do more of what you are doing (exploring it's upcoming release) you'll decide on what you think it's merits are vs aren't. It's early days yet, so wouldn't worry to much about it folks ;) just keep an open mind should you want to take it for a test-run post MIX07 :) WPF SilverLight are going to have interesting prospects just like Apollo and FLEX will have it's own, I think the two will do different things for different people. Keep fingers in all barrels I'd say :) On 17 Apr 2007 03:30:22 -0700, Claus Wahlers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Reading through the Silverlight docs, XAML looks to me like some weird kind of microsoftified SVG, spiced up with MP3 and WM codecs. I'm still searching but so far i couldn't find anything close to what Flex offers (what i found are some barely working and butt ugly component experiments). I'd guess that Silverlight will get some video market share, but it has a long way to go to enter the RIA market. My 2 centavos. Cheers, Claus.
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
All I have to say is it's Microsoft, if they kill anything it's not on the merits of their product... it's brute force. This is not a threat to Flash/Flex by any means. Microsoft will never be able to create a truly cross platform product. All of their past efforts have been clumsy at best, even on their own platform. Paul
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Claus, Yup, so that's why FLEX does have its unique offering vs SilverLight and once developers designers unsubscribe from the notion it's a Flash Killer and do more of what you are doing (exploring it's upcoming release) you'll decide on what you think it's merits are vs aren't. It's early days yet, so wouldn't worry to much about it folks ;) just keep an open mind should you want to take it for a test-run post MIX07 :) WPF SilverLight are going to have interesting prospects just like Apollo and FLEX will have it's own, I think the two will do different things for different people. Keep fingers in all barrels I'd say :) On 17 Apr 2007 03:30:22 -0700, Claus Wahlers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Reading through the Silverlight docs, XAML looks to me like some weird kind of microsoftified SVG, spiced up with MP3 and WM codecs. I'm still searching but so far i couldn't find anything close to what Flex offers (what i found are some barely working and butt ugly component experiments). I'd guess that Silverlight will get some video market share, but it has a long way to go to enter the RIA market. My 2 centavos. Cheers, Claus. -- claus wahlers côdeazur brasil http://codeazur.com.br/ http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
I'm so sad, I remember Flash 3... I think i was toying with Flash path or VRML... glad I went Flash.. On 17 Apr 2007 05:56:49 -0700, Ralph Hauwert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm amazed no-one mentioned scripting on this list yet. Silverlight relies on the browser's JS engine for scripting. Basically, the XAML subset implement Silverlight handles Layout, and animation, while the browser's javascript engine actually provides for the scripting. IMHO, that's what we did with Flash 3. Although admittedly Flash 3 didn't event back. Ralph. On 17 Apr 2007 04:34:08 -0700, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Claus, Yup, so that's why FLEX does have its unique offering vs SilverLight and once developers designers unsubscribe from the notion it's a Flash Killer and do more of what you are doing (exploring it's upcoming release) you'll decide on what you think it's merits are vs aren't. It's early days yet, so wouldn't worry to much about it folks ;) just keep an open mind should you want to take it for a test-run post MIX07 :) WPF SilverLight are going to have interesting prospects just like Apollo and FLEX will have it's own, I think the two will do different things for different people. Keep fingers in all barrels I'd say :) On 17 Apr 2007 03:30:22 -0700, Claus Wahlers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you read FUD crap, ignore it on both sides and just be opened to the idea that theres yet another channel of delivery in rich interactive applications. Reading through the Silverlight docs, XAML looks to me like some weird kind of microsoftified SVG, spiced up with MP3 and WM codecs. I'm still searching but so far i couldn't find anything close to what Flex offers (what i found are some barely working and butt ugly component experiments). I'd guess that Silverlight will get some video market share, but it has a long way to go to enter the RIA market. My 2 centavos. Cheers, Claus. -- claus wahlers côdeazur brasil http://codeazur.com.br/ http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Ralph Hauwert -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Ever seen Office on MAC? quite a compelling product and revenue stream :) On 17 Apr 2007 08:58:21 -0700, Paul J DeCoursey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I have to say is it's Microsoft, if they kill anything it's not on the merits of their product... it's brute force. This is not a threat to Flash/Flex by any means. Microsoft will never be able to create a truly cross platform product. All of their past efforts have been clumsy at best, even on their own platform. Paul -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
RE: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
I hope it spurs Adobe to improve Flex/Flash. I'm a recent Flex developer but I like what I've been able to do with Flex in the last 4 weeks. Here's where I think Flex (or my understanding of Flex) could improve: 1. A stronger IDE. I've used Visual Studio and it clearly beats Eclipse. 2. Stronger/clearer integration with .NET web services? I'm using them now and it's ok, but figuring it out wasn't nearly as easy as the Flex Data Services. Adobe's only hurting Flex by deprecating the other back-end options in the documentation in favor of their own. 3. I'd really like to see the tools and/or documentation provide stronger support for modular team-based coding. 4. Stronger support for re-hydrating an application so it doesn't lose state when a user surfs to another page in a multi-page site and then returns to the page with the embedded Flex application. _ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Muller Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:15 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? No On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobby.com]HeliHobby.com[/URL] -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
IMO, web services should be the last option to use as a data transport. All the added soap 'tags' make it quite slow when large sets of data are passed back and forth. In all honesty, Adobe cant do anything about this since its the soap protocol that makes it slow. Since remoting and FDS both use a binary format(very small foot print), it should be what Adobe pushes since its the most efficient mode of data transport. The IDE could be better, but it is already much better than what we had in the 1.0 1.5 days. I agree, the documention could be better. The use of shared objects is perfect what you are asking. On 17 Apr 2007 19:54:54 -0700, Jim Grinsfelder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope it spurs Adobe to improve Flex/Flash. I'm a recent Flex developer but I like what I've been able to do with Flex in the last 4 weeks. Here's where I think Flex (or my understanding of Flex) could improve: 1. A stronger IDE. I've used Visual Studio and it clearly beats Eclipse. 2. Stronger/clearer integration with .NET web services? I'm using them now and it's ok, but figuring it out wasn't nearly as easy as the Flex Data Services. Adobe's only hurting Flex by deprecating the other back-end options in the documentation in favor of their own. 3. I'd really like to see the tools and/or documentation provide stronger support for modular team-based coding. 4. Stronger support for re-hydrating an application so it doesn't lose state when a user surfs to another page in a multi-page site and then returns to the page with the embedded Flex application. -- *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Muller *Sent:* Monday, April 16, 2007 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? No On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, *helihobby* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobby.com]HeliHobby.com[/URL] -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905 -- I am not a diabetic, I have diabetes my blog - http://grumpee.instantspot.com/blog
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Hi 1. A stronger IDE. I’ve used Visual Studio and it clearly beats Eclipse. Yes, indeed is Visual Studio a nice IDE. I can't say Eclipse is bad, though. It works nicely for me. 2. Stronger/clearer integration with .NET web services? I’m using them now and it’s ok, but figuring it out wasn’t nearly as easy as the Flex Data Services. Adobe’s only hurting Flex by deprecating the other back-end options in the documentation in favor of their own. As a .NET developer this should have been a piece of cake. I mean developing web services ain't hard at all. And leveraging them from Flex /Flash same thing. Appeltje-Eitje. 4. Stronger support for re-hydrating an application so it doesn’t lose state when a user surfs to another page in a multi-page site and then returns to the page with the embedded Flex application. You might want to consider looking at the HistoryManager class which comes with Flex framework. Not sure, if it would do the job correctly I got my own HistoryManager which uses sessions, and url changes. Yours, Weyert de Boer -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
#1 we're certainly working on and will continue to improve #2 is certainly a weakness right now and something that we've attempted to address with the revamped webservice support that is shipping with LCDS 2.5. At the same time that we ship LCDS a hotfix for the SDK that includes the same web service support will be available. #3 I'm not sure what kind of features you'd be looking for so if you could provide more details it'd be very helpful #4 we can address a little bit with some deep linking functionality that we're thinking about, but you will still need to take care of much of it as a developer. SharedObject is certainly a valid approach as Clint suggested in another post. Thanks for the feedback! Matt Flex PM From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Grinsfelder Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:05 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? I hope it spurs Adobe to improve Flex/Flash. I'm a recent Flex developer but I like what I've been able to do with Flex in the last 4 weeks. Here's where I think Flex (or my understanding of Flex) could improve: 1. A stronger IDE. I've used Visual Studio and it clearly beats Eclipse. 2. Stronger/clearer integration with .NET web services? I'm using them now and it's ok, but figuring it out wasn't nearly as easy as the Flex Data Services. Adobe's only hurting Flex by deprecating the other back-end options in the documentation in favor of their own. 3. I'd really like to see the tools and/or documentation provide stronger support for modular team-based coding. 4. Stronger support for re-hydrating an application so it doesn't lose state when a user surfs to another page in a multi-page site and then returns to the page with the embedded Flex application. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Muller Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:15 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? No On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobby.com http://www.HeliHobby.com ]HeliHobby.com[/URL] -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Sorry, with sessions I mean SharedObject :) -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Clint Tredway wrote: IMO, web services should be the last option to use as a data transport. All the added soap 'tags' make it quite slow when large sets of data are passed back and forth. In all honesty, Adobe cant do anything about this since its the soap protocol that makes it slow. Since remoting and FDS both use a binary format(very small foot print), it should be what Adobe pushes since its the most efficient mode of data transport. Yes, but web services aren't really meant for exchanging large sets of data anyways. Well, that's what I learned school about it ;) Indeed binary formats such as FDS/Remoting are fasters, but not something to use when you got legacy things or existing web services. At Yahoo we also XML over HTTP for exchanging the latest music/artist news. Yours, Weyert de Boer
[flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobby.com]HeliHobby.com[/URL]
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
No On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/04/15/introducing-microsoft- silverlight.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobby.com]HeliHobby.com[/URL] -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905
Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
Silverlight is a cross-browser, cross-platform plug-in for
delivering the next generation of media experiences and rich
interactive applications (RIAs) for the Web.
Except Mozilla. Which I tried to install and it failed
- Original Message
From: Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 17 April, 2007 11:14:53 AM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our
beloved Flex ?
No
On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote:
Please comment after you ready and see this:
http://blogs. msdn.com/ tims/archive/ 2007/04/15/ introducing- microsoft-
silverlight. aspx
http://www.microsof t.com/silverligh t/default_ 01.aspx
Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobb y.com]HeliHobby.com[ /URL]
--
- - - - - - -
Andrew Muller
http://www.webqem. com
linkedin:
http://www.linkedin .com/pub/ 1/151/905
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Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ?
I got it working to some extent for Camino (mozilla) on mac. By no means have i thoroughly tested it yet though. I couldn't imagine developing for it yet though. I need a platform that will guarantee me results. 10 years of Flash player deployment is a strong reason why i'll hold off for a while. Plus personally i've never been a fan of ms dev tools. Bjorn On 17/04/2007, at 1:30 PM, Jeremy Watson wrote: Silverlight is a cross-browser, cross-platform plug-in for delivering the next generation of media experiences and rich interactive applications (RIAs) for the Web. Except Mozilla. Which I tried to install and it failed - Original Message From: Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 17 April, 2007 11:14:53 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Will Microsoft's new Silverlight Player Kill our beloved Flex ? No On 16 Apr 2007 18:04:35 -0700, helihobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote: Please comment after you ready and see this: http://blogs. msdn.com/ tims/archive/ 2007/04/15/ introducing- microsoft- silverlight. aspx http://www.microsof t.com/silverligh t/default_ 01.aspx Sean - [URL=http://www.HeliHobb y.com]HeliHobby.com[ /URL] -- - - - - - - - Andrew Muller http://www.webqem. com linkedin: http://www.linkedin .com/pub/ 1/151/905 Send instant messages to your online friends http:// au.messenger.yahoo.com Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---))
