Re: [Flexradio] I need advice about hooking up an amp

2010-09-11 Thread FlexRadio Support, Dudley Hurry
Bill,

Do not  connect the L4B directly to the 5K,  but with the ARB704 buffer
should work just fine for the L4B..   It's a good ideal to use a buffer
relay if nothing else to help isolate the radio from any RF coming back from
the amp.


73,
Dudley

WA5QPZ
FlexRadio Systems

(512) 250-8595, Option 2
Email: dud...@flex-radio.com
Web: www.flex-radio.com

"Tune in excitement!" ™



On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 7:10 PM,  wrote:

> I just got a Drake L4B amp today. Is it safe to run on my F5000A as long as
>  I have a ARB704 in between the radio and amp. I know it works for the
> 811H, but  I have no knowledge of the older amps. Thanks in advanceBill
> N8VWI
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[Flexradio] I need advice about hooking up an amp

2010-09-11 Thread Greathounder
I just got a Drake L4B amp today. Is it safe to run on my F5000A as long as 
 I have a ARB704 in between the radio and amp. I know it works for the 
811H, but  I have no knowledge of the older amps. Thanks in advanceBill
N8VWI
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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Drax Felton
Let end the debate and just start making Flex Radios that use Fibre Channel
and require z/OS.
Then we could run banks of Flexii simultaneously.







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Re: [Flexradio] Noise Reduction.

2010-09-11 Thread Gerald Youngblood
Ron,

This in in the bug list to be fixed (DE94).

Gerald


Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems(TM)
13091 Pond Springs Road, #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 202
Email: ger...@flex-radio.com
Web: www.flex-radio.com

Tune In Excitement (TM)

PowerSDR(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems


On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Ronald A. Stunden  wrote:

> I seem to remember an email about the NR Function, I can't seem to find any
> reply to the problem. My F5K has the problem of the NR having to be re
> selected after a  period of time maybe 1-2  minutes it slowly goes' to
> nothing and has to be reselected. Any comments ? SDR is 2.06 SVN 3804.
> Thanks
> Ron VE7YC
>
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[Flexradio] Noise Reduction.

2010-09-11 Thread Ronald A. Stunden
I seem to remember an email about the NR Function, I can't seem to find any 
reply to the problem. My F5K has the problem of the NR having to be re 
selected after a  period of time maybe 1-2  minutes it slowly goes' to 
nothing and has to be reselected. Any comments ? SDR is 2.06 SVN 3804. 
Thanks
Ron VE7YC 



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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Brian Lloyd
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Peter G. Viscarola  wrote:

> >
> > It does support isochronous streaming transfers,
> > something that  Flex is just now trying to get going on USB. I
> >
>
> USB inherently supports isochronous transfers.


OK, that is news to me. I thought that USB was a single-master, asynchronous
transfer bus, and that all transfers had to be originated by the master.


> I have personally written Windows USB drivers that support isochronous
> endpoints.  It's not difficult.  The driver and the device firmware make ALL
> the difference.
>
> At THIS point, neither USB NOR 1394 would be the best choice, IMNSHO.  The
> best choice would be Gigabit Ethernet.  Oh, by the way:  Even THEN you'll
> have to be concerned about DPCs and latency...
>

And I agree, Gig-E is preferred over either USB or Firewire.

-- 
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3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Brian Lloyd
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Gerald Youngblood
wrote:

> Neil, sure is funny how many times that dead horse gets resurrected.  ;>)
>
> Just for fun, everyone should go look at http://www.presonus.com/ to see
> how
> many ports (channels) they have on their single USB recording system
> product
> vs. their many IEEE1394 (FireWire) recording system products.  Since they
> sell both USB and FireWire systems, there is intelligence in the answer to
> the question.
>

Yes. I have and use a Presonus Firepod. It is amazing how many 96/24
channels I can run at the same time on my Mac over the firewire interface.

But that does point out an orthogonal issue: Apple seems to know how to make
IEEE1394 work better than Microsoft does. It sure would be nice if PSDR or
something like it ran on MacOS. (Wink wink, nudge nudge.)

-- 
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3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Peter G. Viscarola
> 
> Neil, sure is funny how many times that dead horse gets resurrected.  ;>)
> 

Sigh...  Even *I'VE* heard this debate enough times that I'm sick of it.

When you design a product, you make decisions.  The reason the 3000 and 5000 
use 1394 is that Flex made that decision back when they were designing the 
radios.  

Over the EONS we've been having this discussion, Gerald has told us (in detail, 
repeatedly) that with the information they had at the time, and the 
requirements they were using, 1394 appeared to be the best choice at that time 
to the engineers who were responsible for the decision.  Search the archives... 
you'll find all the details.

We can -- and have -- debated ad infinitum whether USB 2.0 would work. 

It just doesn't matter.  The decision's been made.  It was NOT a bad decision 
then, and it has not proven to be a bad decision even now... several years 
later.

For the record (the following is pure redundant trivia -- don't read it if you 
don't want to read the semi-technical ramblings of an engineer):

> even if the 3000 and 5000 could run on USB 2.0 it would present the same set 
> of latency requirement as firewire

Absolutely.  There's nothing about USB that would lead us to believe that the 
types of latency issues that we see on 1394 would be any better on USB.  The 
latency issues are really related to the drivers involved, not the underlying 
bus technology. The Windows USB stack (Host Controller Driver, etc) presents 
its own stunningly unique set of challenges, just like the Windows 1394 stack.

With USB there are other common issues as well, like hubs... that can greatly 
influence the throughput on a bus.

>
> I realize you won't get 480 megabit/sec across a USB 2.0 interface, but many 
> applications routinely get many tens of >megabits/sec across them.
>

Actually, applications routinely get tens of megaBYTES per second across USB.  
At least 200Mbps... maybe 300Mbps.

>
> IEEE 1394 (Firewire) is actually a better protocol than USB.
>

The protocols are sufficiently different that you have to define "better."  Any 
X can be said to be "better" than any Y, if one defines "better" so that this 
is true.  Firewire is more costly, less interoperable, and much more complex.  
This would mean that USB is "better" if better is defined based on those 
factors. 

>
> It does support isochronous streaming transfers,
> something that  Flex is just now trying to get going on USB. I
>

USB inherently supports isochronous transfers.  I have personally written 
Windows USB drivers that support isochronous endpoints.  It's not difficult.  
The driver and the device firmware make ALL the difference.

At THIS point, neither USB NOR 1394 would be the best choice, IMNSHO.  The best 
choice would be Gigabit Ethernet.  Oh, by the way:  Even THEN you'll have to be 
concerned about DPCs and latency...

Peter
K1PGV

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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Gerald Youngblood
Neil, sure is funny how many times that dead horse gets resurrected.  ;>)

Just for fun, everyone should go look at http://www.presonus.com/ to see how
many ports (channels) they have on their single USB recording system product
vs. their many IEEE1394 (FireWire) recording system products.  Since they
sell both USB and FireWire systems, there is intelligence in the answer to
the question.

Gerald


Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems(TM)
13091 Pond Springs Road, #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 202
Email: ger...@flex-radio.com
Web: www.flex-radio.com

Tune In Excitement (TM)

PowerSDR(TM) is a trademark of FlexRadio Systems


On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Neal Campbell  wrote:

> I think people believe that USB is a better alternative because they
> believe
> that its the firewire interface that is giving the sporadic "radio cannot
> connect" or distorted audio issues.
>
> While there are definitely more USB ports on "best buy" computers than
> firewire, I doubt that even if the 3000 and 5000 could run on USB 2.0 it
> would present the same set of latency requirement as firewire (although it
> would make debugging them easier since I have a USB sniffer but a 1394
> monitor is out of my budget!).
>
> I also think that chipsets like the ICH9 and ICH10 have grown so complex
> and
> have crept into so many different device controls that it is its own
> minefield. Almost every issue I have seen with the 1500 has been on a board
> with those two chips. Granted a high percentage of motherboards have those
> chips but I haven't seen any issues with other southbridge chip makers on
> USB.
>
> One difference between the radios Lyle mentioned and the Flex is they are
> all receivers not transceivers so are not carrying all of the channels that
> the 3000 and 5000 do.
>
> But, as Ray said, we have beaten this dead horse so many times on this list
> that I fell asleep while typing this note.
>
> Zz
>
> Neal Campbell
> Abroham Neal Software
> www.abrohamnealsoftware.com
> (540) 645 5394 NEW PHONE NUMBER
>
> Amateur Radio: K3NC
> Blog: http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/blog/
> DXBase bug reports: email to ca...@dxbase.fogbugz.com
> Abroham Neal forums: http:/www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/community/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Ray - K9DUR  wrote:
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > Right on!  At the time that the FLEX-5000 was being developed, the design
> > decision was clear:  At that stage in the technology, IEE1394 was the
> > better
> > choice.
> >
> > 73, Ray, K9DUR
> > http://k9dur.info
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Neal Campbell
I think people believe that USB is a better alternative because they believe
that its the firewire interface that is giving the sporadic "radio cannot
connect" or distorted audio issues.

While there are definitely more USB ports on "best buy" computers than
firewire, I doubt that even if the 3000 and 5000 could run on USB 2.0 it
would present the same set of latency requirement as firewire (although it
would make debugging them easier since I have a USB sniffer but a 1394
monitor is out of my budget!).

I also think that chipsets like the ICH9 and ICH10 have grown so complex and
have crept into so many different device controls that it is its own
minefield. Almost every issue I have seen with the 1500 has been on a board
with those two chips. Granted a high percentage of motherboards have those
chips but I haven't seen any issues with other southbridge chip makers on
USB.

One difference between the radios Lyle mentioned and the Flex is they are
all receivers not transceivers so are not carrying all of the channels that
the 3000 and 5000 do.

But, as Ray said, we have beaten this dead horse so many times on this list
that I fell asleep while typing this note.

Zz

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com
(540) 645 5394 NEW PHONE NUMBER

Amateur Radio: K3NC
Blog: http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/blog/
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Abroham Neal forums: http:/www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/community/





On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Ray - K9DUR  wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Right on!  At the time that the FLEX-5000 was being developed, the design
> decision was clear:  At that stage in the technology, IEE1394 was the
> better
> choice.
>
> 73, Ray, K9DUR
> http://k9dur.info
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Ray - K9DUR
Brian,

Right on!  At the time that the FLEX-5000 was being developed, the design
decision was clear:  At that stage in the technology, IEE1394 was the better
choice.

73, Ray, K9DUR
http://k9dur.info




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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Brian Lloyd
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Lyle Johnson  wrote:

>
>  ...it has to do with the data transfer rates required.
>>
>> ---
>>
>
> This was true of USB 1.0 and 1.1 which were limited to a maximum raw data
> rate of 12 megabit/sec, but is not true of USB 2.0 which has a raw data rate
> capability of 480 megabit/sec. I realize you won't get 480 megabit/sec
> across a USB 2.0 interface, but many applications routinely get many tens of
> megabits/sec across them.
>
> The HPSDR Mercury receivers and Penelope transmitters operate  in full
> duplex, as do the prototype Hermes transceivers.  Receiver bandwidths are
> routinely at 192 kHz, including using dual Mercury receivers for diversity
> reception.
>
> The QS1R, Mercury and Perseus receivers are also using available software
> that allows continuous coverage of 2 MHz rather than only 192 kHz.
>
> All of these systems are interfaced to the host PC using USB 2.0, streaming
> audio and interleaving commands, etc.
>

You certainly are technically correct, Lyle.

IEEE 1394 (Firewire) is actually a better protocol than USB. It does support
isochronous streaming transfers, something that Flex is just now trying to
get going on USB. I suspect that, when the Flex 5000 was under development,
it was possible to do what needed to be done using IEEE1394 and not USB.
Later, when the 3000 was being developed, Flex had a working IEEE1394
interface and an investment in the drivers. It was an easy decision to go
with the working IEEE1394 interface. When Flex started working with the 1500
I bet they started to see that IEEE1394 was not going to continue to be a
supported interface while USB was continuing strong so they opted to invest
the engineering resources to start to move to USB.

So while there are lots of reasons, I think a lot of people are ignoring the
valid business reasons for using the interfaces that they have.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter. Both interfaces, IEEE1394 and USB, are
supported on the various platforms of interest and both work with the
radios. It doesn't help a lot to try to second guess or try to castigate
anyone for the decisions that were made. They look like reasonable decisions
to me and I don't see where USB or IEEE1394 makes that big a difference at
this point.


-- 
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.931.492.6776 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Ray - K9DUR
Lyle,

This has been discussed extensively on this reflector previously.

It does not matter what the THEORETICAL data transfer rate capabilities of
USB 2.0 are, the fact remains that in a real-world application, the actual
attainable rate is MUCH lower.  You must take into account the capability of
the hardware (PC) to attain the maximum data transfer rate, including
interrupt request handling, etc. 

When FlexRadio Systems was developing the FLEX-5000, they did extensive
testing using USB 2.0 as the communications link, & it simply was not
capable of sustaining the data transfer rate required. 

73, Ray, K9DUR
http://k9dur.info




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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Lyle Johnson



...it has to do with the data transfer rates required.

The FLEX-5000 allows a sampling rate of up to 192 kbps for the A/D&  D/A
converters and the FLEX-3000 allows up to 96 kbps.  Add to this the fact
that the FLEX-3000&  FLEX-5000 are full duplex radios.  That is, the TX&  RX
audio streams across the firewire connection are both running at the same
time.  Remember that there are 2 signals each for RX&  TX.  Throw into the
mix RX2 in the case of the FLEX-5000&  the data transfer rate required is
considerably greater than what USB 2.0 can ever support.

One thing that Tim did not mention is the fact that the FLEX-1500 is not
full duplex.  USB 2.0 can handle 2 audio signals with a sampling rate of 48
kHz plus the control signals.  However, it can never handle 4 or 6 audio
signals with sampling rates of 96 kbps or 192 kps plus the control signals.




---

This was true of USB 1.0 and 1.1 which were limited to a maximum raw 
data rate of 12 megabit/sec, but is not true of USB 2.0 which has a raw 
data rate capability of 480 megabit/sec. I realize you won't get 480 
megabit/sec across a USB 2.0 interface, but many applications routinely 
get many tens of megabits/sec across them.


The HPSDR Mercury receivers and Penelope transmitters operate  in full 
duplex, as do the prototype Hermes transceivers.  Receiver bandwidths 
are routinely at 192 kHz, including using dual Mercury receivers for 
diversity reception.


The QS1R, Mercury and Perseus receivers are also using available 
software that allows continuous coverage of 2 MHz rather than only 192 kHz.


All of these systems are interfaced to the host PC using USB 2.0, 
streaming audio and interleaving commands, etc.


73,

Lyle KK7P

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Re: [Flexradio] PrettyBetty

2010-09-11 Thread Tim Ellison
Pretty Betty is no more.

The "skins" provided for use with PowerSDR 2.x are delivered as a package with 
the new installer program which is used to install PowerSDR 2.x, the needed 
drivers and the skins.

Just install the latest version of PowerSDR (v2.0.8) and you will have all you 
need to run the software.
http://support.flex-radio.com/Downloads.aspx?id=348
http://support.flex-radio.com/Downloads.aspx?id=349



-Tim


-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz 
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:16 AM
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: [Flexradio] PrettyBetty

Is there a currently available source for acquiring the prettybetty skins ?
Can one use them with the current driver etc., of the 5000a.or  does one
need to revert to earlier files 5000 files?  I can't seem to find a source
that is current.  Thanks. Mike VE3BGE

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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Ray - K9DUR
Burt,

As Tim indicated, it has to do with the data transfer rates required.

The FLEX-5000 allows a sampling rate of up to 192 kbps for the A/D & D/A
converters and the FLEX-3000 allows up to 96 kbps.  Add to this the fact
that the FLEX-3000 & FLEX-5000 are full duplex radios.  That is, the TX & RX
audio streams across the firewire connection are both running at the same
time.  Remember that there are 2 signals each for RX & TX.  Throw into the
mix RX2 in the case of the FLEX-5000 & the data transfer rate required is
considerably greater than what USB 2.0 can ever support.

One thing that Tim did not mention is the fact that the FLEX-1500 is not
full duplex.  USB 2.0 can handle 2 audio signals with a sampling rate of 48
kHz plus the control signals.  However, it can never handle 4 or 6 audio
signals with sampling rates of 96 kbps or 192 kps plus the control signals.

73, Ray, K9DUR
http://k9dur.info




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[Flexradio] PrettyBetty

2010-09-11 Thread Michael
Is there a currently available source for acquiring the prettybetty skins ?
Can one use them with the current driver etc., of the 5000a.or  does one
need to revert to earlier files 5000 files?  I can't seem to find a source
that is current.  Thanks. Mike VE3BGE

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Re: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Tim Ellison
It is due to sampling rate.  The 1500 has a max sampling rate of 48K whereas 
the 3000 and 5000 are 96K and 192K respectively.  Higher sampling rate require 
higher isochronous throughput between the radio hardware and the PC.  USB will 
not cut it for the higher sampling rates when you have multiple data channels 
needed for RX and TX.


-Tim


-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz 
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Burt
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 9:54 AM
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: [Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

Why does the 1500 work so well on USB but Firewire is required for the 3000 and 
5000A?
Burt


  


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[Flexradio] USB vs Firewire

2010-09-11 Thread Burt
Why does the 1500 work so well on USB but Firewire is required for the 3000 and 
5000A?
Burt


  


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[Flexradio] Any Chance of a progress report on Deep Impact ?

2010-09-11 Thread David R. Wilson
Hello Fellows,

I am one of those Flex users that has only had the radio up a few
minutes.  Although I do support Windows as part of my day job, I have
been hoping we would see something working cross platform so I don't
have to do so at the house.

Is there any info you can give me on what general progress has been made
on the software?  Although I am not much at writing software, I would be
glad to help during what time I can get away from my day job (which
isn't much).  If we still have interfacing issues I would be glad to
tackle that again.  I know Ubuntu, Jack and FFADO have been a moving
target (I have been participating in that shooting gallery).

Dave

KU4B


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