Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Anthony Martin wrote: > I cannot get the noise blankers to do anything remotely like the MFJ can > do.. Which is a shame.. Here is the thing: if you want to be able to use one or the other most effectively, you need to learn about how they work and about the different types of noise. The key word in the previous sentence is: LEARN One of the great things about this hobby is that there is a LOT to learn. One of the other great things about this hobby is that you can learn both from the experiences of others and YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. You may need to *experiment* in order to determine which approach will work to solve your problem. Perhaps the first experiment you can try, one which will cost you nothing, is to test the noise-blanker and see what effect it has on the noise in question. If it has no effect, you have determined that you need to look in another direction. If it solves your problem, you are done. But if the noise blanker does not solve your noise problem you now have two choices: 1. locate and eliminate the source of noise. 2. try to cancel out the noise; Of the two, approach #1 is probably the more correct approach to take because it really solves the problem. If approach #1 does not work because either, a) you cannot locate the source of noise or, b) you are not allowed to eliminate the source of noise, e.g. it is your neighbor's brand new megabuck plasma TV and there is no way in hell he is going to let you touch it, then you may need to find a way to cancel the noise, e.g. try the MFJ box. So we really are trying to help out here. We are trying to help everyone understand how the two approaches vary and which is more likely to work and under what circumstances. One approach is not necessarily better than the other, they are just DIFFERENT. There are certainly circumstances where a NB will work and the MFJ noise canceler won't. The converse is also true. Pick the right tool for the job. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
My nb and nr don't really do much, although I have not adjusted them much. I cant say I ever heard a dsp noise remover work very well without distorting the signal a lot. The mfj noise canceller, and others of its ilk CAN work fantastic on some noises, but need a lot of adjusting and a good separate antenna from what I have read. The video was amazing, but it might not always work that way. Brett - Original Message - From: "Michael Jones" To: "'Brian Lloyd'" Cc: Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? OK - I have been looking at the two things as both being something that can eliminate noise. I guess that is too simple of an outlook. I'm not a noise scientist and so I didn't know that sometimes some kinds of noise need blanking and other kinds need cancelling. And I have no idea how to tell which kind of noise needs what. I don't know what kind of noise I have at my QTH so I don't know if I need a blanker or a canceller. Or both. I was hoping that by seeing and hearing a video I could see how the two compared. But apparently wanting to see and hear a comparison of these two things is a very bad thing to wish for - so I will be sure to just live with the noise that I have, knowing that there is not an answer to the question of how the MFJ unit compares to the PSDR NB button. Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: br...@lloyd.com [mailto:br...@lloyd.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 12:56 PM To: mi...@scsitoolbox.com Cc: herbe...@centurytel.net; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Michael Jones wrote: I have to disagree, or maybe we aren't comparing the same things. They are both noise blankers. No, actually they aren't. The NB function in PowerSDR is a noise blanker. The MFJ box is a noise canceler. They both have one function - to minimize or eliminate noise. Sort of. Let me give you an analogy. Your question appears to me something like asking, "which is better, a dipole or a vertical antenna? They are both designed to transmit and receive radio waves so which one is better?" I think that you will agree that, because they work in a different manner that there will be occasions where a dipole will be superior to a vertical and vice-versa. Are you doing NVIS or DX? Is the signal vertically or horizontally polarized? Unless I have the parameters of your application, I can't give you a meaningful answer. So, I believe that it is not possible to answer your question in a simple A/B or yes/no fashion. They are different and will perform differently in different situations. If the noise problem you are trying to solve is multiple sources of impulse noise, e.g ignition noise, then the NB function will perform better. If the problem is a single CW noise source, e.g. noise from a bad power supply, the NB won't work at all and the MFJ unit will work better. I don't care how they do it, or what is involved at this point such as extra antennas, etc. Then it is not possible to answer your question as stated. I am not talking about comparing how they accomplish what they are supposed to do, I am talking about comparing the results of what they do. They both are supposed to blank noise, Which one does that best? Given the parameters you have set for answering the question, I cannot answer your question. Good luck! -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to brett.gazdzin...@verizon.net ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
I cannot get the noise blankers to do anything remotely like the MFJ can do.. Which is a shame.. -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Michael Jones Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:40 AM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? Hi Anthony, That's impressive. How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the PowerSDRs two noise blankers? Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to anth...@consultexcel.com.au ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
For someone who was only trying to help others, Lee is taking a great deal of flack. This has gotten rediculous. You can see and hear the comparison on the video clip. They are both noise blankers but the MFJ is far more effective because of the method it uses. A Chevy and a Rolls are both cars and both get you from point A to B but they're by no means the same. Accept the fact that the MFJ is much more effective, along with the fact that it requires a separate antenna and works on a totally differently principle. If you are willing to add the second antenna, buy the MFJ unit and you'll get better noise reduction than the internal unit on any radio could ever provide. At least until someone builds an MFJ style unit into a radio. By the way, they aren't really both noise blankers. The built in unit is a blanker. The MFJ unit is a noise canceller; very different. Just my 2 cents. George, NY2O - Original Message - From: "Michael Jones" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I have to disagree, or maybe we aren't comparing the same things. They are both noise blankers. They both have one function - to minimize or eliminate noise. I don't care if one is free and one is $1,000,000 - they are both noise blankers so how do they compare in their function of blanking noise? I don't care how they do it, or what is involved at this point such as extra antennas, etc. I am not talking about comparing how they accomplish what they are supposed to do, I am talking about comparing the results of what they do. They both are supposed to blank noise, Which one does that best? Best Regards, Michael Jones W0STB www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: herbe...@centurytel.net [mailto:herbe...@centurytel.net] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:43 AM To: mi...@scsitoolbox.com Subject: RE: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I'll try again. If you are going to compare two things you really should consider just what the "nature" of the things being compared. Would you compare a YUGO and a Cadillac? If you want to compare the 3000 to something else you have to consider the second antenna and the phase relationships that are involved. 73 Lee Quoting Michael Jones : I don't know what you mean "apples-to-apples"? I'd just like to see & hear how the Flex/PSDR combination deals with the noise compared to the MFJ unit by itself. Does the hardware unit do a better job of eliminating the noise or doesn't it? Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: herbe...@centurytel.net [mailto:herbe...@centurytel.net] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:46 AM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; mi...@scsitoolbox.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I really think we should be comparing apples to apples. I would suggest that everyone who is "impressed" by the MFJ product go to their website, read the description of what this is and then read the eHam comments. 73 Lee K9WRU Quoting Michael Jones : > Hi Anthony, > > That's impressive. > > How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the > PowerSDRs two noise blankers? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Michael Jones W0STB > > SCSI Toolbox LLC > > www.scsitoolbox.com > > 303-972-2072 > > > > > > ___ > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: > http://www.flex-radio.com/ > Message delivered to herbe...@centurytel.net > ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to gsha...@rochester.rr.com ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
Let me give this a shot..not a noise scientist either. Noise blankers work on narrow impulse type noise and noise cancelling works on broadband noise, think the crap from your neighbors plasma tv. An oversimplification and there is a bit of overlap in the kinds of noise each will handle but maybe this will help. Ron k0idt - Original Message - From: "Michael Jones" To: "'Brian Lloyd'" Cc: Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? OK - I have been looking at the two things as both being something that can eliminate noise. I guess that is too simple of an outlook. I'm not a noise scientist and so I didn't know that sometimes some kinds of noise need blanking and other kinds need cancelling. And I have no idea how to tell which kind of noise needs what. I don't know what kind of noise I have at my QTH so I don't know if I need a blanker or a canceller. Or both. I was hoping that by seeing and hearing a video I could see how the two compared. But apparently wanting to see and hear a comparison of these two things is a very bad thing to wish for - so I will be sure to just live with the noise that I have, knowing that there is not an answer to the question of how the MFJ unit compares to the PSDR NB button. Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: br...@lloyd.com [mailto:br...@lloyd.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 12:56 PM To: mi...@scsitoolbox.com Cc: herbe...@centurytel.net; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Michael Jones wrote: > I have to disagree, or maybe we aren't comparing the same things. > > They are both noise blankers. No, actually they aren't. The NB function in PowerSDR is a noise blanker. The MFJ box is a noise canceler. > They both have one function - to minimize or eliminate noise. Sort of. Let me give you an analogy. Your question appears to me something like asking, "which is better, a dipole or a vertical antenna? They are both designed to transmit and receive radio waves so which one is better?" I think that you will agree that, because they work in a different manner that there will be occasions where a dipole will be superior to a vertical and vice-versa. Are you doing NVIS or DX? Is the signal vertically or horizontally polarized? Unless I have the parameters of your application, I can't give you a meaningful answer. So, I believe that it is not possible to answer your question in a simple A/B or yes/no fashion. They are different and will perform differently in different situations. If the noise problem you are trying to solve is multiple sources of impulse noise, e.g ignition noise, then the NB function will perform better. If the problem is a single CW noise source, e.g. noise from a bad power supply, the NB won't work at all and the MFJ unit will work better. > I don't care how they do it, or what is involved at this point such as extra antennas, etc. Then it is not possible to answer your question as stated. > I am not talking about comparing how they accomplish what they are supposed to do, I am talking about comparing the results of what they do. > > They both are supposed to blank noise, Which one does that best? Given the parameters you have set for answering the question, I cannot answer your question. Good luck! -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to rkola...@neb.rr.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.21/2445 - Release Date: 10/19/09 06:40:00 ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
At 12:08 10/19/2009, Michael Jones wrote: there is not an answer to the question of how the MFJ unit compares to the PSDR NB button. What everyone has been trying to tell you is that which facility works better DEPENDS on what problem you have (which you have not specified). Imagine that each person's noise is like a disease, but of course the diseases are all somewhat different, but they can fall in piles like high blood pressure, cancer, emphysema, obesity, hangnail, etc. You are asking: which medicine is best for sick people, aspirin or penicillin? Well, it depends on what disease they have, what other meds they are taking, allergies that might occur, susceptibility to side effects, etc. You see how complex the question is??? Probably the best answer is: Try them both and pick the one (or both) that works best FOR YOU., -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
OK - I have been looking at the two things as both being something that can eliminate noise. I guess that is too simple of an outlook. I'm not a noise scientist and so I didn't know that sometimes some kinds of noise need blanking and other kinds need cancelling. And I have no idea how to tell which kind of noise needs what. I don't know what kind of noise I have at my QTH so I don't know if I need a blanker or a canceller. Or both. I was hoping that by seeing and hearing a video I could see how the two compared. But apparently wanting to see and hear a comparison of these two things is a very bad thing to wish for - so I will be sure to just live with the noise that I have, knowing that there is not an answer to the question of how the MFJ unit compares to the PSDR NB button. Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: br...@lloyd.com [mailto:br...@lloyd.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 12:56 PM To: mi...@scsitoolbox.com Cc: herbe...@centurytel.net; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Michael Jones wrote: > I have to disagree, or maybe we aren't comparing the same things. > > They are both noise blankers. No, actually they aren't. The NB function in PowerSDR is a noise blanker. The MFJ box is a noise canceler. > They both have one function - to minimize or eliminate noise. Sort of. Let me give you an analogy. Your question appears to me something like asking, "which is better, a dipole or a vertical antenna? They are both designed to transmit and receive radio waves so which one is better?" I think that you will agree that, because they work in a different manner that there will be occasions where a dipole will be superior to a vertical and vice-versa. Are you doing NVIS or DX? Is the signal vertically or horizontally polarized? Unless I have the parameters of your application, I can't give you a meaningful answer. So, I believe that it is not possible to answer your question in a simple A/B or yes/no fashion. They are different and will perform differently in different situations. If the noise problem you are trying to solve is multiple sources of impulse noise, e.g ignition noise, then the NB function will perform better. If the problem is a single CW noise source, e.g. noise from a bad power supply, the NB won't work at all and the MFJ unit will work better. > I don't care how they do it, or what is involved at this point such as extra antennas, etc. Then it is not possible to answer your question as stated. > I am not talking about comparing how they accomplish what they are supposed to do, I am talking about comparing the results of what they do. > > They both are supposed to blank noise, Which one does that best? Given the parameters you have set for answering the question, I cannot answer your question. Good luck! -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Michael Jones wrote: > I have to disagree, or maybe we aren't comparing the same things. > > They are both noise blankers. No, actually they aren't. The NB function in PowerSDR is a noise blanker. The MFJ box is a noise canceler. > They both have one function - to minimize or eliminate noise. Sort of. Let me give you an analogy. Your question appears to me something like asking, "which is better, a dipole or a vertical antenna? They are both designed to transmit and receive radio waves so which one is better?" I think that you will agree that, because they work in a different manner that there will be occasions where a dipole will be superior to a vertical and vice-versa. Are you doing NVIS or DX? Is the signal vertically or horizontally polarized? Unless I have the parameters of your application, I can't give you a meaningful answer. So, I believe that it is not possible to answer your question in a simple A/B or yes/no fashion. They are different and will perform differently in different situations. If the noise problem you are trying to solve is multiple sources of impulse noise, e.g ignition noise, then the NB function will perform better. If the problem is a single CW noise source, e.g. noise from a bad power supply, the NB won't work at all and the MFJ unit will work better. > I don't care how they do it, or what is involved at this point such as extra > antennas, etc. Then it is not possible to answer your question as stated. > I am not talking about comparing how they accomplish what they are supposed > to do, I am talking about comparing the results of what they do. > > They both are supposed to blank noise, Which one does that best? Given the parameters you have set for answering the question, I cannot answer your question. Good luck! -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
I have to disagree, or maybe we aren't comparing the same things. They are both noise blankers. They both have one function - to minimize or eliminate noise. I don't care if one is free and one is $1,000,000 - they are both noise blankers so how do they compare in their function of blanking noise? I don't care how they do it, or what is involved at this point such as extra antennas, etc. I am not talking about comparing how they accomplish what they are supposed to do, I am talking about comparing the results of what they do. They both are supposed to blank noise, Which one does that best? Best Regards, Michael Jones W0STB www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: herbe...@centurytel.net [mailto:herbe...@centurytel.net] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:43 AM To: mi...@scsitoolbox.com Subject: RE: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I'll try again. If you are going to compare two things you really should consider just what the "nature" of the things being compared. Would you compare a YUGO and a Cadillac? If you want to compare the 3000 to something else you have to consider the second antenna and the phase relationships that are involved. 73 Lee Quoting Michael Jones : > I don't know what you mean "apples-to-apples"? > > I'd just like to see & hear how the Flex/PSDR combination deals with > the noise > compared to the MFJ unit by itself. > > Does the hardware unit do a better job of eliminating the noise or > doesn't it? > > Best regards, > > Michael Jones W0STB > SCSI Toolbox LLC > www.scsitoolbox.com > 303-972-2072 > > > -Original Message- > From: herbe...@centurytel.net [mailto:herbe...@centurytel.net] > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:46 AM > To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; mi...@scsitoolbox.com > Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? > > I really think we should be comparing apples to apples. I would > suggest that everyone who is "impressed" by the MFJ product go to their > website, read the description of what this is and then read the eHam > comments. > > 73 > > Lee K9WRU > > Quoting Michael Jones : > > Hi Anthony, > > > > That's impressive. > > > > How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the > > PowerSDRs two noise blankers? > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Michael Jones W0STB > > > > SCSI Toolbox LLC > > > > www.scsitoolbox.com > > > > 303-972-2072 > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: > > http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > Message delivered to herbe...@centurytel.net > > > > > > ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Michael Jones wrote: > I don't know what you mean "apples-to-apples"? > > I'd just like to see & hear how the Flex/PSDR combination deals with the > noise compared to the MFJ unit by itself. > > Does the hardware unit do a better job of eliminating the noise or doesn't it? It works completely differently. A noise blanker works by momentarily muting the receive for high-amplitude, very short duration pulses. (Actually the noise blanker code in PowerSDR is even smart enough to fill in the gaps.) The MFJ unit works by using a separate antenna to receive the interfering signal, changing its phase an amplitude so that, when summed with the signal from the main antenna, nulls out the offending signal before it is passed on to the receiver. A noise blanker will work immediately with pulse-type noise and doesn't really need much adjustment. The MFJ noise-canceling box will work with any offending signal but must be carefully adjusted for each signal and will work with only one source of noise at a time. If you have more than one noise source it won't help you. So as you can see, they are completely different and work for different things. Some signals respond to a noise blanker. Some will work with the MFJ noise canceler. As for saying whether or not the MFJ unit is good, it helps a lot to understand how it works and the limitations of that method of noise cancellation. If you are interested in the MFJ approach to canceling an unwanted signal, it turns out that the alpha version of PowerSDR has the ability to do what the MFJ box does inside the radio if you have the second receiver. It is more useful in that it can be used to cancel out any signal, including distant QRM. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
Architecturally, PowerSDR and the FLEX-5000+RX2 should. For diversity RX techniques to work most efficiently, the two receivers should be frequency, phase and gain coherent in order to achieve the proper gain and phase offset values to null or enhance the signal of interest, whether that be noise or a weak DX station. Standalone units do not have this coherency, so they will not do as good of a job as two "locked" receivers. What is also very important is the antenna configuration for diversity reception. Two antennas of the same polarization that are not more than a 1/4 wavelength apart will not be able to capture the incoming signals properly to provide high resolution diversity no matter what dual receiver system you are using. Note the PowerSDR diversity software in development is pre-alpha. More at the proof of concept stage than anything else. It still lacks a good user interface with adequate resolution and the ability to automatically null or enhance a signal of interest. One other thing to note is that we are discussing noise reduction/eliminating techniques and not resistance to selective fading, which is another diversity RX technique that you can use now with the FLEX-5000+RX2. You just use your ears and the gray matter between them to discern the best signal-to-noise ratio. One day, that to should be automated in the software. -Tim -Original Message- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Michael Jones Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 1:14 PM To: herbe...@centurytel.net; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I don't know what you mean "apples-to-apples"? I'd just like to see & hear how the Flex/PSDR combination deals with the noise compared to the MFJ unit by itself. Does the hardware unit do a better job of eliminating the noise or doesn't it? Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: herbe...@centurytel.net [mailto:herbe...@centurytel.net] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:46 AM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; mi...@scsitoolbox.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I really think we should be comparing apples to apples. I would suggest that everyone who is "impressed" by the MFJ product go to their website, read the description of what this is and then read the eHam comments. 73 Lee K9WRU Quoting Michael Jones : > Hi Anthony, > > That's impressive. > > How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the > PowerSDRs two noise blankers? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Michael Jones W0STB > > SCSI Toolbox LLC > > www.scsitoolbox.com > > 303-972-2072 > > > > > > ___ > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: > http://www.flex-radio.com/ > Message delivered to herbe...@centurytel.net > ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to telli...@itsco.com ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
I don't know what you mean "apples-to-apples"? I'd just like to see & hear how the Flex/PSDR combination deals with the noise compared to the MFJ unit by itself. Does the hardware unit do a better job of eliminating the noise or doesn't it? Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 -Original Message- From: herbe...@centurytel.net [mailto:herbe...@centurytel.net] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:46 AM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; mi...@scsitoolbox.com Subject: Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB? I really think we should be comparing apples to apples. I would suggest that everyone who is "impressed" by the MFJ product go to their website, read the description of what this is and then read the eHam comments. 73 Lee K9WRU Quoting Michael Jones : > Hi Anthony, > > That's impressive. > > How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the > PowerSDRs two noise blankers? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Michael Jones W0STB > > SCSI Toolbox LLC > > www.scsitoolbox.com > > 303-972-2072 > > > > > > ___ > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: > http://www.flex-radio.com/ > Message delivered to herbe...@centurytel.net > ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
I really think we should be comparing apples to apples. I would suggest that everyone who is "impressed" by the MFJ product go to their website, read the description of what this is and then read the eHam comments. 73 Lee K9WRU Quoting Michael Jones : Hi Anthony, That's impressive. How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the PowerSDRs two noise blankers? Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to herbe...@centurytel.net ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Flexradio] compare with PSDR NB?
Hi Anthony, That's impressive. How does the effectiveness of the MFJ external until compare with the PowerSDRs two noise blankers? Best regards, Michael Jones W0STB SCSI Toolbox LLC www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
