Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
On Wed, 11 May 2005 13:46:08 -0500, Curtis wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > >On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:49:19 +0100, David wrote in message > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > Airfields which still exist but are now disused can be submitted > > > to Robin - there's some of those already. OTOH I'm not sure if > > > TerraGear currently builds them or not. Airfields that don't > > > physically exist >anymore might be more problematic - I don't > > > think he'd want to include those! It's not *that* hard to rebuild > > > a few tiles of custom scenery oneself though. > > > > ..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, > > "axe'em down on 9/11/2001." > > Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional, but > occasionally it doesn't hurt to think before you speak. There have > been many far worse tragedies before 9/11 and after. Earthquakes, > tsunamis, wars, approximately 8000 people die each day from aids > related illnesses ... But still, 3000 innocent people died on that > day. I have some close up pictures of people falling from the > building after they've jumped. I have a picture of scores of people > hanging out the windows from above the impact area, smoke rising > around them, desperately searching for help that would never come. > These pictures were never published in the media that I'm aware of > because they were "too graphic," but I think perhaps they should have > been so people would have a better idea of the magnitude of just what > happened. This had and has a great affect on a great many people. > My wife went and volunteered to help the firefighters and > construction workers who put their lives on hold for many months > during the recovery effort. Someone there gave her a small container > of sand from the site that still smelled of jet fuel. I don't really > care personally about the twin towers themselves ... there were just > two big buildings, but the event and the people that died there need > to be treated with the *utmost* respect. ..agreed, having blown off steam later in this thread, I advice watching out for post traumatic stress syndrom symptoms, this shit may hit you, your wife, kids, etc again, at some later stage in life, people usually learn this on top of some other shit happening. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:59:26 -0400, Josh wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Jim Wilson wrote: > >>From: Dave Culp > >> > >> > > > >Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > > > > > ..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin > > > > > Towers, "axe'em down on 9/11/2001." > > > > > > >Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional > > > > > > Insensitivity, or perhaps Tourett's Syndrome, which I've always > > > suspected anyway, and isn't his fault. > > > > Ah! Speaking of insensitivity! ;-) One might be recommended to > > learn more about what Tourette's is before making that sort of > > remark. I suppose a person with Tourette's Syndrome could write > > something like that in an email, but it would not be because of the > > Tourette's. > > Yes. That's a completely different disease. Typettes. ..that, plus insensitivity grown on bad news on people who deserve better days like those I was given by the Russian, Chechen, Ukraine etc nations when they threw out the Soviet Union, and on Nato servicemen who helped pave their way. _Not_ the Sissy Boys. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
On Wed, 11 May 2005 14:09:20 -0500, Dave wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > >..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, > > >"axe'em down on 9/11/2001." > > > Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional ..apologies, my point was we show these towers up when we set the sim time inside their lifetime, and remove them before and after that time frame. > Insensitivity, or perhaps Tourett's Syndrome, which I've always > suspected anyway, and isn't his fault. .. ;o) I _have_ delivered a few chew outs on good guys with spines, on their stupidity. Ambushed Forrest Gump types running like idiots back and forth carrying wounded buddies, landing on enemy airfields and farmland under enemy fire to pick up shot down buddies, flying a C172 to the Red Square to say "Hi!" to Soviet ruled Russians, ripping the Soviet Union apart with their bare hands in the face of KGB troops, stopping 4 Chinese tank armed with 2 white plastic bags and a spine, because they wanted peace, justice and democracy, just like us. ..without idiot stunts like these, _I_ would have had to face a nuclear WWIII here in Norway, first from the commies, then from good people doing due diligence on reasonable and realistic intelligence on what would be left of us. ..I was all "Riiight!" on Gorbies talk of "glasnost" and "perestroyka", because I read Gorbie right when he chose those 2 words to tell the Soviets what help he needed to restore the guts of the Soviet war machine. ..the leftist "Peace Movement's" in the West took their orders to help make the Soviet propaganda machine coherent using those same 2 words to tell us "we wanna be just like you", and for once it worked on the Soviet side too, as the Iron Curtain leak grew in 1989 thru 1991, I was all ready for the Big Bonfire, only to be fired because of Peace, as the Russians threw the Soviet Union, _out_. ..as an exit bonus, I even got myself a life to live, and in peace! ..now, instead of peace and democracy, Russians and Chechens are being screwed like Yanks in 'Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan, while Muslims enjoy the wee beginnings of EndlÃsung-2.0 in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. ..the worst part is how dimwits like Pfc. Lynndie England are denied justice when they grow enough brains to match Saddam's spine, because the judge tries to keep the Supreme Commander off Death Row for Treason and War Crimes in places like Gitmo. Tourette my ass, the truth is uglier than that, after the Muslims, who's next, the Chinese, Indians, Russians, Africans, Latinos, or us? ..now, _unless_ you _actually_ voted for the _re_-lection of Sissy Boy George the Nepotist Warrior Ace who Flew so High and Far he Missed Vietnam, and Instead Scored 152 Kills on Texan Death Row Inmates, then on the US Military, Democracy, Freedom, Justice, Civilization, to make the Amerikanski Sovietsky Soyus possible, I apologise. ..am I clear? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Jim Wilson wrote: >>From: Dave Culp >> >> >>>Arnt Karlsen wrote: >>> ..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, "axe'em down on 9/11/2001." >> >>>Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional >> >> >>Insensitivity, or perhaps Tourett's Syndrome, which I've always suspected >>anyway, and isn't his fault. >> > > > Ah! Speaking of insensitivity! ;-) One might be recommended to learn more > about what Tourette's is before making that sort of remark. I suppose a > person with Tourette's Syndrome could write something like that in an email, > but it would not be because of the Tourette's. > > Best, > > Jim > > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d > Yes. That's a completely different disease. Typettes. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
> From: Dave Culp > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > >..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, > > >"axe'em down on 9/11/2001." > > > Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional > > > Insensitivity, or perhaps Tourett's Syndrome, which I've always suspected > anyway, and isn't his fault. > Ah! Speaking of insensitivity! ;-) One might be recommended to learn more about what Tourette's is before making that sort of remark. I suppose a person with Tourette's Syndrome could write something like that in an email, but it would not be because of the Tourette's. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
> Arnt Karlsen wrote: > >..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, > >"axe'em down on 9/11/2001." > Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional Insensitivity, or perhaps Tourett's Syndrome, which I've always suspected anyway, and isn't his fault. Dave ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:49:19 +0100, David wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On 11/05/2005 at 09:50 Dave Culp wrote: "disused" airfields, OK, this would then not be the same as an airport that no longer exists? I would think some people would have a problem with having these added to the scenery. Airfields which still exist but are now disused can be submitted to Robin - there's some of those already. OTOH I'm not sure if TerraGear currently builds them or not. Airfields that don't physically exist anymore might be more problematic - I don't think he'd want to include those! It's not *that* hard to rebuild a few tiles of custom scenery oneself though. ..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, "axe'em down on 9/11/2001." Hmmm, I sure any insenstivity here was not intentional, but occasionally it doesn't hurt to think before you speak. There have been many far worse tragedies before 9/11 and after. Earthquakes, tsunamis, wars, approximately 8000 people die each day from aids related illnesses ... But still, 3000 innocent people died on that day. I have some close up pictures of people falling from the building after they've jumped. I have a picture of scores of people hanging out the windows from above the impact area, smoke rising around them, desperately searching for help that would never come. These pictures were never published in the media that I'm aware of because they were "too graphic," but I think perhaps they should have been so people would have a better idea of the magnitude of just what happened. This had and has a great affect on a great many people. My wife went and volunteered to help the firefighters and construction workers who put their lives on hold for many months during the recovery effort. Someone there gave her a small container of sand from the site that still smelled of jet fuel. I don't really care personally about the twin towers themselves ... there were just two big buildings, but the event and the people that died there need to be treated with the *utmost* respect. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:49:19 +0100, David wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > On 11/05/2005 at 09:50 Dave Culp wrote: > > > > "disused" airfields, > > > > OK, this would then not be the same as an airport that no longer > > exists? I would think some people would have a problem with having > > these added to the > > scenery. > > Airfields which still exist but are now disused can be submitted to > Robin - there's some of those already. OTOH I'm not sure if TerraGear > currently builds them or not. Airfields that don't physically exist > anymore might be more problematic - I don't think he'd want to include > those! It's not *that* hard to rebuild a few tiles of custom scenery > oneself though. ..treat these fields the same way we treat the WTC Twin Towers, "axe'em down on 9/11/2001." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
On 11/05/2005 at 09:50 Dave Culp wrote: >> "disused" airfields, > >OK, this would then not be the same as an airport that no longer exists? >I would think some people would have a problem with having these added to >the >scenery. > Airfields which still exist but are now disused can be submitted to Robin - there's some of those already. OTOH I'm not sure if TerraGear currently builds them or not. Airfields that don't physically exist anymore might be more problematic - I don't think he'd want to include those! It's not *that* hard to rebuild a few tiles of custom scenery oneself though. Cheers - Dave This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
> "disused" airfields, OK, this would then not be the same as an airport that no longer exists? I would think some people would have a problem with having these added to the scenery. Dave ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Martin Spott wrote: > I already did. I think there are numerous British defunct airports on > the list as well, ^^^ "disused" airfields, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Dave Culp wrote: >> Therefore we already >> have an airport database where everyone can submit their favourite >> airport definitions they make with TaxiDraw. > Can we put defunct airports into the database? I already did. I think there are numerous British defunct airports on the list as well, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Am Mittwoch 11 Mai 2005 09:18 schrieb Martin Spott: > Dave Culp wrote: > I don't believe that cutting holes into the scenery at runtime meets > the performance expectations of FlightGear users. Therefore we already > have an airport database where everyone can submit their favourite > airport definitions they make with TaxiDraw. > > On the other hand I'd be willing to maintain a PostGIS database where > we could store hand-tuned scenery shapes that don't fall into the > regime of TaxiDraw. Maybe this could somehow be coupled with the > FlightGear Scenery Designer for input if someone adds the required bits > to let TerraGear read the output. > > Unfortunately we can't store elevations in such a database but Norman > promised to be he would give us an update as soon as progress is made > in this area ;-);-) Well I would say that rather the half of all have a more or less high-end machine avaible. And those whoose machine isn't able to render the scene properly arent forced to use this feature at all. If they don't load a custom mesh-file, they never will have to deal with that. But were you are right is the fact of recompiling the whole at runtime. (even for the more faster machines.) Probably a good idea would be to compile your own Mesh as a btg-file for example or something other equal. So that you already have calculated the vectors of the border. If you keep them quite straight you shouldn't feel such a great perfomance loss - This all just happens when intializing the object - Not every frame. The idea with a PostGIS Database is a quite good idea indeed. would be cool in addition to the real custom objects ;) But this data also needs to get involved into the FlightGear Scenery - Not just to every local one compiling at your own. Greetings, Karsten ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Actually, Karsten wrote this: > Dave Culp wrote: > >> After I asked a bit around, I came to (my) conclusion that making > >> external changes trough custom data on the Scenery is a pain. No chance > >> to get custom Sceneries (not just objects) really good to run. And I wrote this: > Karsten Krispin wrote: > > I'm glad you looked into it, because I was hoping to add Sembach Airbase, > > EDAS, to my local Germany terrain. Looks like this may be more work than > > I thought. > Therefore we already > have an airport database where everyone can submit their favourite > airport definitions they make with TaxiDraw. Can we put defunct airports into the database? If not, is there an alternative way to build a scenery tile with said defunct airport in it? Dave ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Dave Culp wrote: >> After I asked a bit around, I came to (my) conclusion that making external >> changes trough custom data on the Scenery is a pain. No chance to get >> custom Sceneries (not just objects) really good to run. Karsten Krispin wrote: [...] > But there would be a better way: > > The holes which were now cutted by terragear could be cutted in runtime of > FGFS. > I'm glad you looked into it, because I was hoping to add Sembach Airbase, > EDAS, to my local Germany terrain. Looks like this may be more work than I > thought. I don't believe that cutting holes into the scenery at runtime meets the performance expectations of FlightGear users. Therefore we already have an airport database where everyone can submit their favourite airport definitions they make with TaxiDraw. On the other hand I'd be willing to maintain a PostGIS database where we could store hand-tuned scenery shapes that don't fall into the regime of TaxiDraw. Maybe this could somehow be coupled with the FlightGear Scenery Designer for input if someone adds the required bits to let TerraGear read the output. Unfortunately we can't store elevations in such a database but Norman promised to be he would give us an update as soon as progress is made in this area ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
> After I asked a bit around, I came to (my) conclusion that making external > changes trough custom data on the Scenery is a pain. No chance to get > custom Sceneries (not just objects) really good to run. I'm glad you looked into it, because I was hoping to add Sembach Airbase, EDAS, to my local Germany terrain. Looks like this may be more work than I thought. Dave ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
Karsten Krispin wrote: > After I asked a bit around, I came to (my) conclusion that making external > changes trough custom data on the Scenery is a pain. No chance to get custom > Sceneries (not just objects) really good to run. > > Well. it is probably possible through changing the source-data of terragear - > extend this with own changes and all will be fine. > > But there would be a better way: > > The holes which were now cutted by terragear could be cutted in runtime of > FGFS. > > So that you are able to include a own mesh-file (for example a AC3D file). > > I would suggest the same method to include the mesh into the scenery as > terragear does with airportfields. > > The equal area which the new mesh uses get cutted out from the base-tiles (I > assume that is one big "tile" after they are loaded...) and the border of > both meshes get connected also with respect of the elevation. > > > This is of course a big piece of work. But this is something you need. To > build a quite good airport - with Taxiwaycrossings and that stuff. > With that you are even able to do some nice unleveled runways which are in > particular already possible but not happening very much due to the low > elevation-resolution. > > IMHO this is something with a higher priority than 3d-clouds. Even If I also > think that they already should be implemented fully. ;);) (Now I don't want > to > tell that all the people should stop working on that, what they are > doing. :):) ) > > Greetings, > Karsten > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d > This would certainly make it a lot easier to do large waterfalls and other landmarks like the Matterhorn. Also big craters, distinctive canyons (though modeling the Grand Canyon would take a wee bit more horsepower than I have) and any number of other things. I was also wondering last night if the 3d cloud technology could be applied to forests. I think that would add a lot to low level flight. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Terrain Replacments trough other sources
After I asked a bit around, I came to (my) conclusion that making external changes trough custom data on the Scenery is a pain. No chance to get custom Sceneries (not just objects) really good to run. Well. it is probably possible through changing the source-data of terragear - extend this with own changes and all will be fine. But there would be a better way: The holes which were now cutted by terragear could be cutted in runtime of FGFS. So that you are able to include a own mesh-file (for example a AC3D file). I would suggest the same method to include the mesh into the scenery as terragear does with airportfields. The equal area which the new mesh uses get cutted out from the base-tiles (I assume that is one big "tile" after they are loaded...) and the border of both meshes get connected also with respect of the elevation. This is of course a big piece of work. But this is something you need. To build a quite good airport - with Taxiwaycrossings and that stuff. With that you are even able to do some nice unleveled runways which are in particular already possible but not happening very much due to the low elevation-resolution. IMHO this is something with a higher priority than 3d-clouds. Even If I also think that they already should be implemented fully. ;);) (Now I don't want to tell that all the people should stop working on that, what they are doing. :):) ) Greetings, Karsten ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
