[Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
The origin location on the 747 and a4 were fixed (Andy?) as of yesterday. Now you will note that the B747-400 on take off, rather than yanking back on the stick you need to just bring the nose up a bit and let it lift off, lest the aft section of the fuselage scrapes on the pavement...just like the real thing. Hmmm...anyone have a sound effect for that? :-) Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
Jim Wilson wrote: The origin location on the 747 and a4 were fixed (Andy?) as of yesterday. Yeah, that was me. I still say that the origin should be on the airframe instead of inside the plane, but a promise is a promise. :) Random note: how hard would it be to get the checkin account added to the base package CVS emails, like is done for FlightGear and SimGear? Sometimes you can tell who made the modifications by context, but often it's no so clear. Other good stuff, for people who haven't flown the 747 recently, is that the recent ground effect fix makes landing behavior much nicer. When flown in on a 3° glideslope*, the aircraft just barely levels out in ground effect. You have to decrease power (or push the nose down) very gently to get it on the ground; it's very easy to miss the touchdown point and land long. This sorta feels right to me, based solely on passenger seat observations. * I find that about 8° of AoA for approach is about right. At the default weight, this results in about a 150 knot approach; dunno if that's right or not. I haven't been able to find a good reference for approach numbers for the 747. I'd be happy to tune it for different numbers if someone has them. Now you will note that the B747-400 on take off, rather than yanking back on the stick you need to just bring the nose up a bit and let it lift off, lest the aft section of the fuselage scrapes on the pavement...just like the real thing. Hmmm...anyone have a sound effect for that? :-) To be fair, the tail has always been scraping inside the FDM. It's just obvious now that's what is happening. Before, it looked like you were running out of elevator authority. And I agree, a scraping sound would be really nice ear candy, and very easy to implement. I can just set a /sim/fuselage-contact boolean whenever one of the non-gear contact points is touching the ground. Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one. - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
Andy Ross wrote: Jim Wilson wrote: Now you will note that the B747-400 on take off, rather than yanking back on the stick you need to just bring the nose up a bit and let it lift off, lest the aft section of the fuselage scrapes on the pavement...just like the real thing. Hmmm...anyone have a sound effect for that? :-) To be fair, the tail has always been scraping inside the FDM. It's just obvious now that's what is happening. Before, it looked like you were running out of elevator authority. And I agree, a scraping sound would be really nice ear candy, and very easy to implement. I can just set a /sim/fuselage-contact boolean whenever one of the non-gear contact points is touching the ground. To be honnest, I don't think anyone would even notice if the Boeing were tail scraping over the runway. For example, it is very comon for F-16 to hit the runway with their ventral fins on startup or touchdown. This is usually only noticed afterwards by the groud crew. On a side note, it would be nice to make a distinction between locations that would crash the aircraft (nose, wing tips) and part that just cause the aircraft to clip to the ground (belly, ventral fins). Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
Erik Hofman wrote: To be honnest, I don't think anyone would even notice if the Boeing were tail scraping over the runway. For example, it is very comon for F-16 to hit the runway with their ventral fins on startup or touchdown. This is usually only noticed afterwards by the groud crew. True enough. But certainly some airframe touch situations are easily noticeable. Hauling back on the yoke of a 747 at 100 knots during a takeoff roll is guaranteed to be noticed, for example. :) I think, on the whole, a scraping sound would add more to the simulation experience than it takes away. Right now, it's very much non-obvious to the user when they've clipped a wing tip or tail. I think there's a training benefit to the sound, even at the expense of pure realism. On a side note, it would be nice to make a distinction between locations that would crash the aircraft (nose, wing tips) and part that just cause the aircraft to clip to the ground (belly, ventral fins). This is already done, in a sense. A crash is something that's able to force a gear or contact point through the ground plane. If this doesn't happen, then the contact was light enough not to bend the airframe (for some only vaguely plausible definition of bend, of course). There's really nothing special about the nose, for example. Light contact to the nose isn't going to kill the aircraft. The only reason it looks special is that, aerodynamically, you can't put the aircraft into a situation where a nose touch is light. :) Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one. - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:35:25 -0800, Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think, on the whole, a scraping sound would add more to the simulation experience than it takes away. Right now, it's very much non-obvious to the user when they've clipped a wing tip or tail. I think there's a training benefit to the sound, even at the expense of pure realism. ..is it possible to get the real thing off a black box tape? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: can just set a /sim/fuselage-contact boolean whenever one of the non-gear contact points is touching the ground. Sure, if you want to do that I'll figure out a sound to use. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: To be honnest, I don't think anyone would even notice if the Boeing were tail scraping over the runway. It probably doesn't happen much. But if you were to drop it down hard you might feel it if not hear it, and you might even hear the passengers in the way back start screaming. An old unix text based 747 flight simulator I liked to play with years ago considered tail scraping on take off or landing a crash, and it would stop and beep. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] tail scraping the 747
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..is it possible to get the real thing off a black box tape? I doubt it. In the only two cases that I know about (was not personally involved tho :-) ), no one in the cockipt heard anything at all. In one of the two nobody in the back did either! jj jj ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
