Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..IP and litigation risks, was: AH-1 Merge Request
Curs Olsen wrote: So why aren't we *removing* all our existing uses of the redbull logo ... or at least the ones that I can find in 2 seconds? None of the people who are saying Jack can't submit his helicopter with a redbull livery are saying anything about the 2 aircraft and several scenery database models that clearly also use the redbull logo and have existed in our sim for years. Sorry Curt, but I did say we have to care ;) Oliver -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..IP and litigation risks, was: AH-1 Merge Request
Myself wasn't aware of that we have other models with the RD-logo as well. I'm not sure if Oliver, the starter of this debate is. I pretty much am since Jack pointed me to those *sigh* (never noticed it before) and yes, I did say that we have to care about them to Jack. There is no reason to take it personal. Oliver -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..IP and litigation risks, was: AH-1 Merge Request
Gene Buckle wrote: Regardless, nothing relating to open source use of logos on aircraft models in flight simulator. It does not matter whether open source projects, private persons or commercial enterprises. In fact in certain areas (eg. file sharing) private persons are more frequently approached just because it is more beneficial for lawyers. Putting a trademarked icon on an ebay sell? On a private web site? Good luck. Various chambers have built their own business model around copyright and trademark enforcement by actively seeking for infringements. If you think RB will not approach us, you might be right. However such a lawyers chamber might realize the infringement in FlightGear and approach Red Bull to act as a representative for them. Such requests are often granted as this is a win-win situation: The lawyer gets all penalties and fees and RB has its TM enforced. Next step: Finding out where the content is hosted and distributed from. Which is the FlightGear web site and the scenery database. Get the owners of the sites. Calculate the penalty fee- the higher the better for the lawyer, therefore in the worst case it is calculated based on the number of downloads. If unknown it is estimated. Send out the letter which is preformulated. Effort: At max 1 day. Return on invest ensured. Would you say a chamber would just say Oh no, poor open source guys, I suspend my business model in a country in which mothers are sued to pay 3 mio. US$ just because they have shared half a dozen music titles? Note that I actually found a picture of a real AH-1 Cobra (http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image49158.html) in Red Bull livery - this tells me that if Jack's AH-1 uses this same livery, there is likely no infringement at all. The AH1 is a picture of a AH1 which either belongs to RBs fleet or for which someone has paid licenses to have it. Photographing the real thing, especially if publically presented, is not an issue. If one rebuild this livery (reproduction) and distributes it is a clear violation of trademarks as you make a copy. In fact distributing the logo is the by far more problematic issue from a legal point of view. Awesome. Presented in a country in which I don't reside _and_ in a language I don't read or speak. Red Bull has subsidiaries in the US and trademark law is enforced on a global scale. This has nothing to do with language or country borders. Note that while hard to see from your high horse, you might want to look I am no longer surprised that various discussions end up becoming pretty personal sooner or later. It is propably peoples nature or education how to show respectful or disrespectful behavior towards people and trademarks. Oliver -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: If in doubt – in fact, even if not in doubt – it’s good to ask. Here’s an actual data point. snip I agree with Jon on this - ideally we should be pro-active about asking for permission, even if we don't like the answer. We could send out a series of emails to all the trademark holders we can identify, starting with the airlines as the most obvious case of us using trademarks. I would be happy to draft a standard text describing FG and our use of trademarks, so it would be a case of a simple cut-and-paste and not much effort on our part. Obviously as soon as we do that we are increasing our visibility, and would really need to be prepared to respond and remove content if they said no. I understand that is not really going to be acceptable to the better to ask forgiveness than permission side of the argument, so I'm just putting it out there as an option. No need to shoot it down. Trying to be a bit more constructive and to find a compromise, we could follow the JSBSim lead, and include some form of disclaimer that we are not connected or endorsed by any of the trademark holders whose trademarks are included in FG, and all trademarks are the property of their respective owners, yada yada yada. If we were feeling particularly keen we could include some defined process for trademark holders to contact us if they want their trademarks removed. It could be included in a README, and the manual. That would at least show any trademark holders that we're not attempting to rip them off. Jon - could you post the disclaimer text you eventually used? -Stuart -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-commitlogs] FlightGear Base Package branch,
Flightgear-commitlogs wrote: The branch, releases/2.2.0 has been updated - Log - commit df42a907df04bee9f42445c36be1cfe207c2f68b Author: Frederic Bouvier Date: Thu Feb 17 23:19:03 2011 +0100 Fix issue #246 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=246 by Lauri Peltonen Wonderful ! Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:*.*.*] I agree with Jon on this - ideally we should be pro-active about asking for permission, even if we don't like the answer. ... Jon - could you post the disclaimer text you eventually used? -Stuart With JSBSim, our situation is a little different, considering that we deal with data and performance characteristics and not tangible, visual, IP (logos, etc.). So, this is the disclaimer we ended up using: This model was created using publicly available data, publicly available technical reports, textbooks, and guesses. It contains no proprietary or restricted data. It has been validated only to the extent that it seems to fly right, and possibly to comply to published, publicly known, performance data (maximum speed, endurance, etc.). Thus, this model is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. This simulation model is not endorsed by the manufacturer. This model is not to be sold. I think that last sentence maybe should have for profit tacked on the end, and even that might still cause some heartburn within the OSS community. It might also have a bearing on the Fli*ght Pr* S*m discussion. ;-) I found Boeing's response to our query to be friendly and reasonable. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
Stuart wrote: snip I agree with Jon on this - ideally we should be pro-active about asking for permission, even if we don't like the answer. Very good points mentioned. Especially the point that this will increase FGs appearance on some radars. However lots of people are nowadays using Google so the debate has become public anyway. I would to point out that besides the two results yes and no there might be a third one worth considering which is: No answer from the TM holder. This might be treated the same as yes or no. In case of treating it as yes we should agree how to treat potential consequences ;) Oliver -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] rahulroyrd...@gmail.com is inviting you to freecharge.in
I did my recharge on http://www.freecharge.in and got coupons of McDonald's,Cafe Coffee day, Baskin Robbin's, Domino's and many more. Freecharge.in is a new way to recharge your mobile as it also gives you free coupons of your favorite brands. All Indian operators are available and payment can be done through credit card, ATM/Debit Card, Netbanking and ITZ cash card. 60,000 fans on facebook - Stop Recharging, Start Freecharging! Cheers,Rahul Roy http://www.freecharge.in/index.php?invitationCode=1122626 -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Stuart Buchanan wrote: I agree with Jon on this - ideally we should be pro-active about asking for permission, even if we don't like the answer. We could send out a series of emails to all the trademark holders we can identify, starting with the airlines as the most obvious case of us using trademarks. I would be happy to draft a standard text describing FG and our use of trademarks, so it would be a case of a simple cut-and-paste and not much effort on our part. Obviously as soon as we do that we are increasing our visibility, and would really need to be prepared to respond and remove content if they said no. I understand that is not really going to be acceptable to the better to ask forgiveness than permission side of the argument, so I'm just putting it out there as an option. No need to shoot it down. I don't have any problem with being proactive about it. What I do have a problem with is all the hand-wringing going on in the absense of any factual information. If someone wants to take the time to sift through all the textures and then chase down the various trademark holders for official releases, I think that's great. However, there's no sense in gutting the database while cowering in a corner until that point. Disclaimers are a good thing to have regardless - it removes any perceive ambiguity about the intentions of the project that is using potentially infriging content. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Alice flying in Wonderland (TM)
Hi there! After having followed the trademark discussion silently, I start to feel like Alice in Trademark-Wonderland. Most companies, and RedBull for sure, invest a lot of money for TV and print commercials. So WTF should the Flightgear Project do commercials for them FOR FREE? RedBull should pay Jack for creating the livery, and Flightgear for adding it to the release. Welcome to Utopia! In reality, FG takes the risk of being sued and even pays for the bandwidth. Sweet! I suggest to populate the scenery with advertisement boards, too. For free, of course. World economy needs your help! And lawyers would be gratefull, too... Seriously, who should be interested more in inclusion of trademarks to flightgear - the project itself, or the company behind the trademark? I for myself could perfectly life without any (RedBull) logos attached to any aircraft. Cheers, Joe -- Schon gehört? GMX hat einen genialen Phishing-Filter in die Toolbar eingebaut! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/toolbar -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Aircraft directory renaming question
Hi, Long ago I (with a lot of help) created a flightgear aircraft called Malolo1 and committed it to CVS at the time. Malolo1 was a prototype of a marinized (salt water proof) flying wing UAV ... approximately 7' wing span. With the help of a few kind souls I got a 3d model in place and a really rough flight dynamics model in place. In the mean time we have moved far beyond the Malolo1 days and have a new name for our wing. I've also been working on a very accurate 3d outline model including the exact airfoil and blended body center section shape. In the future we probably have the opportunity to use all the engineering drawings and that will take us down to actual servos and in many cases even wires and connectors. I also spent yesterday with the help of a few other kind souls coming up with a first draft of a yasim physics model for our new slightly larger wing which actually is flying *very* nice right now. There are opportunities to also do an accurate JSBSim model in the future. Since this has kind of been my sandbox with the help of a lot of other folks, is there any problem with renaming this aircraft folder from Malolo1 - Resolution (the new name) I still plan to keep the earlier variants for reference, but I'd like to move forward with the official name. Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AH-1 Merge Request
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Jack Mermod wrote: Hi, The Red Bull livery has been removed from this release. Download: http://jackmermod.bplaced.net/Files/cobra21511.zip Hi Jack, I had a look at committing this, replacing the existing aircraft in git, but there seem to be some problems with the textures. The livery menu appears to be broken, and I'm getting a lot of errors of the form: Warning: Could not find plugin to read objects from file /home/stuart/FlightGear/fgdata/Aircraft/AH-1/Models/Cockpit/pilot1.png. Warning: Could not find plugin to read objects from file /home/stuart/FlightGear/fgdata/Aircraft/AH-1/Models/Cockpit/pilot2.png. Is that expected, or is there an error in the zip file? Thanks, -Stuart -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AH-1 Merge Request
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Stuart Buchanan stuar...@gmail.com wrote: Warning: Could not find plugin to read objects from file /home/stuart/FlightGear/fgdata/Aircraft/AH-1/Models/Cockpit/pilot1.png. Warning: Could not find plugin to read objects from file /home/stuart/FlightGear/fgdata/Aircraft/AH-1/Models/Cockpit/pilot2.png. Is that expected, or is there an error in the zip file? Looks like quite a few of the files named .png are really jpegs: $ identify pilot1.png pilot1.png JPEG 512x512 512x512+0+0 DirectClass 8-bit 223.154kb -- Csaba/Jester -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AH-1 Merge Request
Hi, As many of the textures were originally photos, they were edited in .jpg format and sent to me like that. I made the careless mistake of simply changing the extension from jpg to png. I will convert these the proper way in photoshop, and commit it to the AH-1's repository, which can be seen here: http://www.gitorious.org/bell-ah-1-cobra If I commit my changes there, will you be able to merge the files directly from my repo into fgdata? Check Six, Jack -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
