Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: Hi Heiko, Heiko Schulz wrote: The YASim-FDM is lacking - I don't know how to match this to the real perfomance... The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? I'm pretty sure YaSim is more than capable to handle this. Just a matter of fine tuning. Greetings Detlef Martin. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Detlef Faber wrote: Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? Well, the model rellay looks excellent and the Bocian does as well (man, 13 MBytes of textures for that one ;-) but I don't think that any of these two behaves like a glider. So this is some sort of a choose your poison :-) situation as the Schweizer _does_ behave reasonable, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Hi, At first thanks for uploading and correcting the error. How is the behaviour of a glider in flight? If YASim is a good fdm, it should simulate the behaviour with the right data correct. I see more problems in the simulating of the enviroment like thermals, turbulences, wind etc Greetings HHS --- Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Detlef Faber wrote: Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? Well, the model rellay looks excellent and the Bocian does as well (man, 13 MBytes of textures for that one ;-) but I don't think that any of these two behaves like a glider. So this is some sort of a choose your poison :-) situation as the Schweizer _does_ behave reasonable, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ BE A BETTER INTERNET-GURU: Jetzt Frage stellen und einen von 44 iPods gewinnen! www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 08:10 + schrieb Martin Spott: Detlef Faber wrote: Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? Well, the model rellay looks excellent and the Bocian does as well (man, 13 MBytes of textures for that one ;-) but I don't think that any of these two behaves like a glider. So this is some sort of a choose your poison :-) situation as the Schweizer _does_ behave reasonable, ... I'm sure the ASK-21 will do too, without using JSBSim. Detlef Martin. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
On Mon 2 July 2007 10:10, Martin Spott wrote: Detlef Faber wrote: Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? Well, the model rellay looks excellent and the Bocian does as well (man, 13 MBytes of textures for that one ;-) but I don't think that any of these two behaves like a glider. So this is some sort of a choose your poison :-) situation as the Schweizer _does_ behave reasonable, Martin. The time ( and Jon :) ) is (are) working for us , wouldn't the coming external forces within JSBSim solve these aerotow and winch starts funct (and others.) We just need to be patient. And JSBSim will give a good alternative FDM solution . Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
The time ( and Jon :) ) is (are) working for us , wouldn't the coming external forces within JSBSim solve these aerotow and winch starts funct (and others.) Regards Gérard Yes, Dave Culp has done a lot of work on this, and I am continuing it, but I don't have an idea when it will be finished. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
While YASim is a very good fdm, imo (and I've done a few in my time), it isn't suited to accurately portraying a glider because the 'cruise' definitions don't apply. The cruise section assumes level flight and needs to know the power required to maintain that level flight for it to work correctly. Doing a powered glider in YASim would be fine, provided that the propeller isn't retracted when not in use (I believe some motor-gliders are able to do this) because the drag etc. effects from the prop will also be taken into consideration by YASim. Apart from the heli developments, there has been no hint of YASim being adapted to work with unpowered or tailless/elevatorless aircraft so it looks like you'll either have to use JSBSim or UIUC if you want any real accuracy for these types of aircraft. LeeE On Monday 02 July 2007 09:24, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, At first thanks for uploading and correcting the error. How is the behaviour of a glider in flight? If YASim is a good fdm, it should simulate the behaviour with the right data correct. I see more problems in the simulating of the enviroment like thermals, turbulences, wind etc Greetings HHS --- Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Detlef Faber wrote: Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? Well, the model rellay looks excellent and the Bocian does as well (man, 13 MBytes of textures for that one ;-) but I don't think that any of these two behaves like a glider. So this is some sort of a choose your poison :-) situation as the Schweizer _does_ behave reasonable, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ BE A BETTER INTERNET-GURU: Jetzt Frage stellen und einen von 44 iPods gewinnen! www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Hi Lee, Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 15:57 +0100 schrieb leee: While YASim is a very good fdm, imo (and I've done a few in my time), it isn't suited to accurately portraying a glider because the 'cruise' definitions don't apply. The cruise section assumes level flight and needs to know the power required to maintain that level flight for it to work correctly. that was true some months ago, but since early this year (when Maik improved the ground handling and introduced the towing capability) there is no need for a YaSim engine anymore. Instead you can specify for cruise and approach a glide-angle and comletely omit the engine definition. Greetings Detlef Doing a powered glider in YASim would be fine, provided that the propeller isn't retracted when not in use (I believe some motor-gliders are able to do this) because the drag etc. effects from the prop will also be taken into consideration by YASim. Apart from the heli developments, there has been no hint of YASim being adapted to work with unpowered or tailless/elevatorless aircraft so it looks like you'll either have to use JSBSim or UIUC if you want any real accuracy for these types of aircraft. LeeE On Monday 02 July 2007 09:24, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, At first thanks for uploading and correcting the error. How is the behaviour of a glider in flight? If YASim is a good fdm, it should simulate the behaviour with the right data correct. I see more problems in the simulating of the enviroment like thermals, turbulences, wind etc Greetings HHS --- Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Detlef Faber wrote: Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:43 + schrieb Martin Spott: The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, ... and loose capabilities like aerotow and winch starts? Well, the model rellay looks excellent and the Bocian does as well (man, 13 MBytes of textures for that one ;-) but I don't think that any of these two behaves like a glider. So this is some sort of a choose your poison :-) situation as the Schweizer _does_ behave reasonable, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ BE A BETTER INTERNET-GURU: Jetzt Frage stellen und einen von 44 iPods gewinnen! www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Hi, Today I finished a first version of an ASK 21 Glider. It's a very wellknown glider, over 800s are built. There are still a lot of things to do: some instruments are missing, the pilots are missing and there is a some artefacts on the canopy ( in OSG is much nicer!). The YASim-FDM is lacking - I don't know how to match this to the real perfomance... Some pics: http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.2.jpg http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.3.jpg http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.6.jpg You can download it here: http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.tar.gz I would appreciate, if someone could do this in CVS. Thanks! HHS Btw: We definiteley need the grafic implementation of tows! ;-) __ Alles was der Gesundheit und Entspannung dient. BE A BETTER MEDIZINMANN! www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
On Sun 1 July 2007 20:10, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, Today I finished a first version of an ASK 21 Glider. It's a very wellknown glider, over 800s are built. There are still a lot of things to do: some instruments are missing, the pilots are missing and there is a some artefacts on the canopy ( in OSG is much nicer!). The YASim-FDM is lacking - I don't know how to match this to the real perfomance... Some pics: http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.2.jpg http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.3.jpg http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.6.jpg You can download it here: http://www.hoerbird.net/ask21.tar.gz Nice glider, thanks. Only one detail into ask21-set.xml it must be line 29 path archive=yAircraft/ASK21/Models/ask21.xml/path instead of path archive=yAircraft/ask21/models/ask21.xml/path because without we get that ugly yellow blue glider :) Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Schleicher ASK 21 Glider ready for CVS
Hi Heiko, Heiko Schulz wrote: The YASim-FDM is lacking - I don't know how to match this to the real perfomance... The in-flight behaviour of the YASim FDM is, similar to that of the 'Bocian', extremely 'direct' and unforgiving. As an alternative you might do better by using a derivative of the JSBsim FDM as used in the Schweizer, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
