Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 11:27 +0200, Erik Hofman wrote: On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 11:22 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: Like, Christian and Vivian stated earlier, I would also hate to see a patch getting lost, especially when it contains promise. This is why I originally suggested committing it. I would suggest that (even though it may not be production-ready yet), we commit the patch on the condition that; 1) the shader in question is disabled by default, and 2) in its disabled state doesn't have an adverse impact . Thoughts / Ideas? Let me take a look at it this weekend and I'll commit it then. Ok the problem seems to be that the local weather tiles need about a minute to settle down. The code seems fine after all. Erik -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 00:16 +0200, Christian Schmitt wrote: I can only agee with Vivian here: lets get this change into GIT, so that it doesn't get lost as so many others in the past. The shader is not perfect yet, but that should not hurt, as it is disabled as a default. Those who want to test and improve it are free to do so. Let me add that it's good to have people who work on things like shaders (we need every single one of them). I'm not opposed to adding the shaders but I want a good look at the code to make sure that current functionality is not lost with the patch before it gets committed. Erik -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:41:42 +0200, Erik wrote in message 1302849702.1655.1.camel@Raptor: On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 00:16 +0200, Christian Schmitt wrote: I can only agee with Vivian here: lets get this change into GIT, so that it doesn't get lost as so many others in the past. The shader is not perfect yet, but that should not hurt, as it is disabled as a default. Those who want to test and improve it are free to do so. Let me add that it's good to have people who work on things like shaders (we need every single one of them). I'm not opposed to adding the shaders but I want a good look at the code to make sure that current functionality is not lost with the patch before it gets committed. Erik ..and, we better find out what's going on with the shader artifacts on ATI cards, if FG-2.2 is anything like FG-git, it is _not_ ready. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On 15 Apr 2011, at 08:41, Erik Hofman wrote: On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 00:16 +0200, Christian Schmitt wrote: I can only agee with Vivian here: lets get this change into GIT, so that it doesn't get lost as so many others in the past. The shader is not perfect yet, but that should not hurt, as it is disabled as a default. Those who want to test and improve it are free to do so. Let me add that it's good to have people who work on things like shaders (we need every single one of them). I'm not opposed to adding the shaders but I want a good look at the code to make sure that current functionality is not lost with the patch before it gets committed. Like, Christian and Vivian stated earlier, I would also hate to see a patch getting lost, especially when it contains promise. This is why I originally suggested committing it. I would suggest that (even though it may not be production-ready yet), we commit the patch on the condition that; 1) the shader in question is disabled by default, and 2) in its disabled state doesn't have an adverse impact . Thoughts / Ideas? Cheers, Durk -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 11:22 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: Like, Christian and Vivian stated earlier, I would also hate to see a patch getting lost, especially when it contains promise. This is why I originally suggested committing it. I would suggest that (even though it may not be production-ready yet), we commit the patch on the condition that; 1) the shader in question is disabled by default, and 2) in its disabled state doesn't have an adverse impact . Thoughts / Ideas? Let me take a look at it this weekend and I'll commit it then. Erik -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
Hi. Nice to see my shader brought up some discussion :) First, Vivian, I tried to see your screenshots, but the link wasn't working (server down or something?) so I cannot comment them right now. And I didn't mean the bug with sun reflection on the water being misplaced from the real shader, but sometimes it seems like the sunset effect on the (non shader) skydome is someting like 90 degrees to the left. I'm not sure if it always was like that or did I change something or am I just seeing things. It looks like the brightest spot of the horizon is not where the sun is, but to the left. If someone can confirm (with old version my version if possible), would be much appreciated. Second, Erik, I tried not to change the old behaviour but I needed to move some code around to get better precision in the skydom model. I hope everything works like it did with the non shader version, I didn't quite understand all the equations but the code should not change those. Only behaviour that I did change is the clear color in FG from fog color to black. I don't see anything changing near the ground, but the effect near space is better :) Other topics, mie and rayleigh coefficients are exposed, but maybe I shuold expose the wavelength dependency too, because that is what affects the sky color the most. The idea is that some code in FG/SG would write the proper coefficients depending on weather conditions to make different looking skies. I also uploaded the python code I used for evaluating the shader and calculating the scale coefficients etc. It is here: http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/scatter.py I can also write a wiki article on the subject should it be necessary. In the future, I'd like to see this shader as a post processing effect applied over all rendered objects so we would get a consistent look and feel everywhere. And also, I didn't think about getting this to the next release, it's too late for that. But maybe to the one after that, so we have time to test things first. Wbr, Zan -- Lauri Peltonen -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 19:37 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: Admittedly, I only looked at the corresponding forum topic very briefly, but the screenshots certainly looked promising. I'd be happy to commit the corresponding simgear and flightgear patches. I did see some comments from Fred in the forum thread and I can't tell for sure whether these have been addressed or not. Therefore, I'd like to give others a few days to comment. If I don't hear any objections by the weekend (and if I don't see any negative side effects myself). I'm might go ahead and commit these patches by Saturday. So, just drop a note here if there are problems I should be aware of. It's not production ready yet, and it even removes some of the features form the old code. I don't seem to see any difference with different humidity levels for example. Erik -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 19:37 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: Admittedly, I only looked at the corresponding forum topic very briefly, but the screenshots certainly looked promising. I'd be happy to commit the corresponding simgear and flightgear patches. I did see some comments from Fred in the forum thread and I can't tell for sure whether these have been addressed or not. Therefore, I'd like to give others a few days to comment. If I don't hear any objections by the weekend (and if I don't see any negative side effects myself). I'm might go ahead and commit these patches by Saturday. So, just drop a note here if there are problems I should be aware of. I think Lauri already mentioned he left these issue for the future/other developers. I am afraid that if it is not sufficiently documented and understood by others, it will remain as it is a long time. It's not production ready yet, and it even removes some of the features form the old code. I don't seem to see any difference with different humidity levels for example. I guess one would have to play with the Mie and Rayleigh factor to achieve that. A debug window with 2 sliders would be handy to experiment. It also would be nice if Lauri could publish how he computed the factor used in the outscatterscale function. Regards, -Fred PS: what about the 2.2 release first ? I see plans for lots of code. -- Frédéric Bouvier http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On 14 Apr 2011, at 10:30, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: It's not production ready yet, and it even removes some of the features form the old code. I don't seem to see any difference with different humidity levels for example. I guess one would have to play with the Mie and Rayleigh factor to achieve that. A debug window with 2 sliders would be handy to experiment. It also would be nice if Lauri could publish how he computed the factor used in the outscatterscale function. Okay, thanks for the comments. I'll be holding back on committing. Is there any perspective that this patch can be brought to production quality? Regards, -Fred PS: what about the 2.2 release first ? I see plans for lots of code. Yeah, we should get back to that. What is the current status? I have spend a lot of time doing the prepatory work for an eventual release during my holiday, but apparently no release has happened during my absence. Are there still any showstoppers? cheers, Durk -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Durk Talsma durkt...@gmail.com wrote: PS: what about the 2.2 release first ? I see plans for lots of code. Yeah, we should get back to that. What is the current status? I have spend a lot of time doing the prepatory work for an eventual release during my holiday, but apparently no release has happened during my absence. Are there still any showstoppers? I seem to recall James mentioned the a couple issues remained, but I don't recall ever hearing specifically what those issues where. He has been buried by real life lately so he hasn't had the chance to jump in much lately. I haven't heard much from Tim either. On my end I have been packaging and uploading the cutting edge executables from the hudson build server along with the current data package from git. That is pushing about 400Mb as a single setup.exe right now. When we do a real release, we should be able to do bittorrent seeded through ibiblio.org. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.orghttp://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 18:15 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: Okay, thanks for the comments. I'll be holding back on committing. Is there any perspective that this patch can be brought to production quality? I'm not sure, it needs time to look after some things. For one it should be made possible for the shader to adjust the fog color located under /rendering/fog but at this time values written to it will be overwritten by the current code. Erik -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
Erik wrote On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 18:15 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote: Okay, thanks for the comments. I'll be holding back on committing. Is there any perspective that this patch can be brought to production quality? I'm not sure, it needs time to look after some things. For one it should be made possible for the shader to adjust the fog color located under /rendering/fog but at this time values written to it will be overwritten by the current code. I added some sliders in the rendering dialog here as suggested by Fred and did some adjustments at runtime. There do seem to be some issues that I was unable to tune out - at least so far: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk:2121/flightgear/Skydome/ However, I am concerned that if we do not get this into git, it will get forgotten, and we will not get the potential improvements. That said, there do seem to be some pretty fundamental problems here, as the screenshots indicate. I can't see any downside here - if the shader is disabled - so far as I can see the existing skydome is unaffected. Vivian -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
Erik Hofman wrote: I'm not sure, it needs time to look after some things. For one it should be made possible for the shader to adjust the fog color located under /rendering/fog but at this time values written to it will be overwritten by the current code. Erik I can only agee with Vivian here: lets get this change into GIT, so that it doesn't get lost as so many others in the past. The shader is not perfect yet, but that should not hurt, as it is disabled as a default. Those who want to test and improve it are free to do so. Let me add that it's good to have people who work on things like shaders (we need every single one of them). Chris papillon81 -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
On 13 Apr 2011, at 00:08, Vivian Meazza wrote: It's meant to have been fixed. I can push the shader and effects file into git - but someone else will have to pick up the flightgear and simgear patches Admittedly, I only looked at the corresponding forum topic very briefly, but the screenshots certainly looked promising. I'd be happy to commit the corresponding simgear and flightgear patches. I did see some comments from Fred in the forum thread and I can't tell for sure whether these have been addressed or not. Therefore, I'd like to give others a few days to comment. If I don't hear any objections by the weekend (and if I don't see any negative side effects myself). I'm might go ahead and commit these patches by Saturday. So, just drop a note here if there are problems I should be aware of. Cheers, Durk -- Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers. Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision. Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
Hi, I made this patch some time ago, and seems like it is working quite fine, so I though if it might be possible to add to git (if nothing more, then maybe for future reference)? It does two things. First I modified the skydome code to be more configurable so that the precision could be increased (number of rings and bands). Then I implemented the O'Neil's scattering shader to showcase the scattering. I know that for the proper effect, terrain and other objects should use the same shader, but that is probably future work. Anyways, here are links to patches and effects. The flightgear patch only makes clearcolor black, so that space is dark instead of gray. http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/scatter-simgear.patch http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/scatter-flightgear.patch http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/skydome.eff http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/skydome.frag http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/skydome.vert Screenshots can be found from the forum thread: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=47t=11274p=117965#p117965 And the command line to run the shader, it needs some properties set: fgfs --prop:/sim/rendering/mie=0.003 --prop:/sim/rendering/rayleigh=0.0003 --prop:/sim/rendering/dome-density=0.5 --prop:/sim/rendering/scattering-shader=1 The non-shader version should look just like it used to, but on some occasions I think the sunset effect is a bit misplaced. I didn't touch that code, so was it always like that? Can someone verify? Cheers, Zan -- Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers. Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision. Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
Lauri wrote Hi, I made this patch some time ago, and seems like it is working quite fine, so I though if it might be possible to add to git (if nothing more, then maybe for future reference)? It does two things. First I modified the skydome code to be more configurable so that the precision could be increased (number of rings and bands). Then I implemented the O'Neil's scattering shader to showcase the scattering. I know that for the proper effect, terrain and other objects should use the same shader, but that is probably future work. Anyways, here are links to patches and effects. The flightgear patch only makes clearcolor black, so that space is dark instead of gray. http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/scatter-simgear.patch http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/scatter-flightgear.patch http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/skydome.eff http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/skydome.frag http://users.tkk.fi/~lapelto2/fgfs/scatter/skydome.vert Screenshots can be found from the forum thread: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=47t=11274p=117965#p1179 65 And the command line to run the shader, it needs some properties set: fgfs --prop:/sim/rendering/mie=0.003 --prop:/sim/rendering/rayleigh=0.0003 --prop:/sim/rendering/dome-density=0.5 --prop:/sim/rendering/scattering-shader=1 Nice work. I'm not entirely sure about the colours, but that might be a local issue: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk:2121/flightgear/Tempest/Tempest-skydome-shader.pn g The non-shader version should look just like it used to, but on some occasions I think the sunset effect is a bit misplaced. I didn't touch that code, so was it always like that? Can someone verify? This bug? http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=182can=1start=10 0 It's meant to have been fixed. I can push the shader and effects file into git - but someone else will have to pick up the flightgear and simgear patches Vivian -- Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers. Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision. Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Simple atmospheric scattering shader for skydome
It does two things. First I modified the skydome code to be more configurable so that the precision could be increased (number of rings and bands). Then I implemented the O'Neil's scattering shader to showcase the scattering. I know that for the proper effect, terrain and other objects should use the same shader, but that is probably future work. The shader can be switched off, right? It doesn't make sense to use it when a lot of things still missing. I guess it isn't possible yet now that terrain can use this and our currently used shaders (crop, transition, water...) together. Or am I wrong here? -- Forrester Wave Report - Recovery time is now measured in hours and minutes not days. Key insights are discussed in the 2010 Forrester Wave Report as part of an in-depth evaluation of disaster recovery service providers. Forrester found the best-in-class provider in terms of services and vision. Read this report now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/ibm-webcastpromo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
